Which dual core(s) will fit in a 93 L Series?

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MTB92
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Post by MTB92 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:26 pm

cheers Toonga. :)

i do have a pretty good understanding of conductivity, i just have almost no experience with car radiators.

i am at the point of needing to make a decision on what radiator i will use to cool the EJ22, and as it stands i can see 3 options.

1. go new standard L series rad. some people suggest that this isn't enough to cool the bigger engine on a hot day 4wding.

2. aluminium L series rad. these are meant to have better cooling than the standard ones, and i think this option makes the most sense. (i guess i was partly wondering if i can just grab something off the internet, or if i need to go into a radiator shop and explain/order what i need :confused:)

3. get something custom made up :twisted:. this, i have no doubt, would keep the ej nice and cold but would also cost a lot more and is probably not necessary.

i will definitely get a new rad, as i have no idea how old the current one is but being in a 20yr old car i would be mad not to replace it.
hopefully 2nd Hand Yank will get something out of this too :rolleyes:

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Post by TOONGA » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:40 pm

Dang I found a place on ebay that manufactures out of Melbourne, now I can't find the link again :(

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Post by Venom » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:42 pm

Go single core alluminium. Its nice and thin which means you could probably fit a much bigger thermo fan than you can for a dual or triple core. Its cheap. Its works for every EJ, a stock Ej22 single core radiator keeps my H6 cool with no problems. I'd recommend a H-piece or two T pieces to bridge between the two heater core hoses, that way if it gets blocked you still maintain flow.

Every time my car(s) have heated off road its been due to a lack of airflow, and in my opinion thats best addressed with as much pulling power from your thermo's as possible. The bigger rad reduces the size of the thermo's you run, which to me is not addressing the problem you're having. If you have no AC then maybe go a dual core and fit a massive single fan on the front.

I'd really like a dual thermo fan setup with a full shroud covering the whole core, to me that would be the best cooling setup.
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MTB92
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Post by MTB92 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:46 pm

correct link? everything in that appears to be USA.

Thanks Venom, that makes sense. i think that will be the way i go.

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Post by TOONGA » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:49 pm

Link removed as Im not sure if he manufactures in Australia. Ive sent an email to him.

this is the link I found this morning.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/42mm-alloy-a ... 415f41bac3

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Post by vhr32 » Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:30 am

I bought a Nationwide Auto Parts radiator off eBay for $160 delivered. It's ok so far but I have not taken it on the beach yet and Tassie hasn't exactly got warm yet! :P

With normal driving it site about 3mm above the line on the gauge and rises up to 1/4 on massive hills, using the stock fan and unknown condition fan clutch.

I'll have to find out if the factory fan clutches can be opened up and I might put some Toyota fan clutch fluid in it to recondition it.

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Post by TOONGA » Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:14 am

So I emailed this guy whose Ebay ad reads, albeit badly;
we are manufacture ,not importer.all shop order, bulk order ,wholesale is welcome.we also make-to-order. please feel free to ask.
and this is his reply
hi, they are manufactured in China, we have warehouses there, thanks!

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Post by El_Freddo » Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:41 pm

TOONGA wrote:So I emailed this guy whose Ebay ad reads, albeit badly;

"we are manufacture ,not importer.all shop order, bulk order ,wholesale is welcome.we also make-to-order. please feel free to ask."

and this is his reply

"hi, they are manufactured in China, we have warehouses there, thanks!"
Classic!

I had my radiator made up by Aussie Desert Coolers in Perhan (I think) in the northern burbs of melb. I got a 3 core made up, does the job, is well fat but I reckon a single core would have been the go or even a dual core. I'm thinking of getting another one made up when/if I find the money for the job as I would like more space between the EJ and the thermos for a larger set of thermo fans...

Google them, their website should be the first to come up ;)

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Post by 2nd Hand Yank » Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:18 pm

Wow, a lot has been discussed since late November!

So a single core, perhaps aluminium and some better shrouding for the fans would be the best for my L Series?
It sounds like one of the cheapest ways for good cooling. :)

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Post by El_Freddo » Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:34 pm

Fan shrouding is key to good air flow through the radiator. You need the shrouding to be flush with the radiator core/cooling elements as a fan will naturally pull air from around it if there's not shrouding.

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Post by spike » Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:02 pm

ill throw my 2 cents in

i like the idea of a dual core, simple because it in creases the amount of water the system can hold. Ali is the way to go, i dont know many people still using copper in anything.

Oil coolers are deffinatly a plus, first thing you should do if you think its getting hot, however it lowers oil pressure and oil coming out of the cooler is 60 percent air and roots bearings. If your running a front bar can i suggest fitting an oil cooler the size of your number plate, sited behind your number plate, if your doing hard work move the numberplate to the lower holes.

Keep the clutch fan as long as you can, my thermo fan is hooked up to the ignition always on and never lets the car down. Shrouds are nessecary, if your running thermo fans only go with an air evacuation sheet (fancy word for a big shroud)

I will have to do somthing about mums cause its boiling its nuts off..........


Also dont jack the bonnet up for better cooling, it doesnt work it creates a low pressure zone and sucks more air in. Best bet is to vent somwhere else (i will be doing some experiments about it)

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Post by discopotato03 » Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:53 pm

Oil coolers only ever reduce oil flow if the plumbing is too small and or the core is too small .
Please tell me how an oil cooler introduces air into the oil - aside from the inlet and outlet they are a sealed unit .

At the end of the day an oil cooler is merely a radiator designed to contain a different fluid under higher pressure and generally temperatures . If radiators had to cope with 100 plus PSI and 140+C temps they would be constructed like oil coolers too .

Really people for the last time yes aluminium is the best radiator core material to use but if a narrow (thickness wise) single row core is marginal (cooling wise) a properly made twin row copper core one will reject heat more easily .
The only way you are ever going to get an aluminium radiator that will fit as the factory has it is to have a one off one made up - but $700 dollars later ...
Your calls , Paul down at Subareck in Adelaide had copper twin cores made up for half of what the custom allys would cost - and he rallied an RX turbo with them .
He obviously came up with a suitable core to suit whichever is the wide tank side of a std L Series radiator . AFAIK no one makes a wide replacement tank for the narrow side so you have to use an MY style brass one . Now had the core been aluminium one you'd have had a fun time trying to join alluminimum to brass because the MY tank isn't designed to join with foulded ears and rubber seals . What you can do however is solder the copper folded ear twin core to the soldered type conventional MY tank - and then everything just about falls in the car .
Rad core poos itself , no prop . New core and fit up like std L on one side and solder the other . If you took the expensive fabbed ally one you have to cut the core out of the tanks and weld it all up again whilst maintaining the same width with the "hacked" tanks .
Anyway you can believe me or not but I've been through the process of single copper/Japanese made Koyo single aluminium/Subareck copper twin row . Provided my car has a full sump of oil and a full cooling system it never overheats . I use only the belt driven fan too BTW and it is a pure road car - no sand dunes .

My conclusion with all EA82/T power cars is that most of them are long in the tooth/tired and run hotter because of it . I don't recall people complaining about them when they were new so what the factory fitted must have been generally adequate when in fresh condition .
Fact of life is that more power means more heat so turbo versions need more cooling capacity if worked hard .
I also think that Like old Bluebirds L Series cars don't have particularly good airflow through their engine bays which is hard to solve . Possibly bonnet outlet vents would help if you could get them to draw hot air out .
Actually if I was going into the dunes I'd probably consider pulling the bloody thing off - ever tried that one ?
And on the slightly spaced up bonnet thing , mine is and with hinges that unbolt from the body this is very easy to do .
Don't believe it works ? Try it and run your hands up the slightly raised sides of the bonnet with the engine running , yep thats warm post radiator air you can feel escaping out the sides and yers can thank Coxy for that one too . You do get an area of slightly higher pressure just in front of the windscreen but not along the sides of the bonnet .
Try every trick with these cars because a little bit here little bit there can make all the difference , same with most things automotive - generally .

A .

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spike
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Post by spike » Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:28 pm

discopotato03 wrote:Oil coolers only ever reduce oil flow if the plumbing is too small and or the core is too small .
Please tell me how an oil cooler introduces air into the oil - aside from the inlet and outlet they are a sealed unit .
im not really able to answer that question, its just what ive known. Colin chapman used it as a rule and i belive it. i belive its the cavitation at the pump and the low to high pressure.

---------------
=======---------------=========
-------------oil in

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spike
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Post by spike » Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:31 pm

[quote="discopotato03"]Oil coolers only ever reduce oil flow if the plumbing is too small and or the core is too small .
Please tell me how an oil cooler introduces air into the oil - aside from the inlet and outlet they are a sealed unit .
QUOTE]

i guess im not able to answer the second question, its just what ive read. colin chapman belived that so i will too. Perhaps its the cavitation or the mixing as it enters the sump.

as for the first its not flow its pressure

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oil in ------------------ oil out
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you start cramming oil into tiny passages and the pressure builds on one side, lowering the pressure on the other. you cant have oil cooler tubes the size of the oil feed

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spike
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Post by spike » Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:37 pm

another note on discos post, yeah when they came out they were ok.
get it flushed/rodded and go from there or get a new stardard one and make sure all your fans and stuff work

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Post by sven '2' » Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:47 pm

I ran with one Paul's dual core on my NA L and then the EA82T. Unfortunately, they are not very robust - mine was dinged up too easily as per avatar(!)

Setup: Had one fan with a shroud, one without. Quality waterpump (not all waterpumps are =) - all standard. Very good coolant mixed correctly.

No fancy fan switching, no Homer go fast vents, no mods aside from the rad itself.

I recall only ever once overheating in the EA82T - suppose though towing another vehicle backwards on shell grit beach on a balmy 35C day down at Beachport one summer will do that

A standard cooling system in good order, good coolant is a good start before dual cores, oil coolers etc. I would suggest a fair percentage of cooling systems have issue(s) before they are stressed by what we do...
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Post by discopotato03 » Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:10 am

spike wrote:im not really able to answer that question, its just what ive known. Colin chapman used it as a rule and i belive it. i belive its the cavitation at the pump and the low to high pressure.

---------------
=======---------------=========
-------------oil in
I can't see Colin Chapman making a statement like that because it doesn't stand up to any engineering reasoning . When you fit an air to air oil cooler to an engine you make sure its sized to make no measurable flow restriction because if you don't its a greater danger to the engines health than oil temperature . Most competition engines run external oil coolers and they'd die a quick death if they posed a flow restriction or were the cause of oil airation to any degree . An undersized oil cooler system is a mugs choice not an engineers one .

A .

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Post by spike » Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:46 pm

sorry the flow and pressure was just what ive been told around the traps

the one about aeration was Colin Chapmans


SURVIVAL RULES (YOURS AND THE DRIVERS)
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Post by discopotato03 » Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:55 pm

Col makes sense there but note he is talking about a dry sump race application not a wet sump road one .
Not sure if you know but dry sump systems use basically a shallow tray on the bottom of the block to collect drain back oil and its removed from here by a scavange pump and sent to an oil tank or reservoir .
With the sort of revs many race engines run there is a lot of "windage" off the crankshaft and "crank scrapers" are used to try and seperate the oil from the cyclonic currents in the crank case . I believe some of this ends up in the oil tank though its probably possible to make the oil spin radially in the tank so the lighter air moves to the center and rises to the top .

BTW where he mentions keep Duckworth poor I'd say hes talking about Mike Costin and Keith Duckworth who together formed Cosworth many years ago .

A .

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spike
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Post by spike » Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:13 am

yes there are differences between race and road but id still believe it about the aeration because think of what will happen if we dont, better safe than sorry

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