Subaru/Toyota XT/SVX/AE86

RetroLover · Post by **RetroLover** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:44 pm

This is a car that is going to be really good. Since Toyota owns a part of Subaru, there have been noticeable changes in Subaru’s habits. There is a visionary project which believes to make production by decades end. What the vehicle is is a lightweight, compact, coupe that is a RWD vehicle. So yes this would be a fantastic little car to drift and fang around in due to its size and RWD configuration.

I love the old Toyota AE86 Corolla. For people who don’t know what it is; it was the last RWD Corolla that stopped production in 1987 and was replaced by the FWD configured Corolla, and since then has left a gap in the market which is still left to fill today, the light weight RWD vehicle. Subaru also has no compact coupe on the market either since the Alcyone SVX was stopped production in the 90s. Funny enough Toyota still uses these cars for drifting competitions today. Even though these cars are over 25 years old. I was going to import one of these myself but due to the fact these cars are a quarter of a century old, I reconsidered my options.

This vehicle engine source is suggested to be the 2.5L turbocharged Flat4 which is found in latest model Impreza WRX. There are suggestions there will be different engine variants. This vehicle would be possible be badged as a Subaru, but this early in the vehicles development this is not certain. This car looks hot and I tell you what, about ****in time guys ive been waiting for a car like this for ages. Im definitely going to look into purchasing one of these cars, let’s hope Subaru/Toyota doesn’t **** up in the design department again and gets there shit together by the time this vehicle reaches production. So yes, the Subaru XT/SVX and the Toyota Corolla AE86 does live on in this car.

Theres a pitcure on the link.

RetroLover · Post by **RetroLover** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:21 pm

Here's some more information on the devlopment:

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/4232/s ... pe-update/

AndrewT · Post by **AndrewT** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:32 pm

So it's like a Subaru but inferior due to no AWD

INEEDABEER · Post by **INEEDABEER** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 5:26 pm

That will also be the next Celica.

Xtreme_RX · Post by **Xtreme_RX** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:12 pm

As we all know Toyota can’t make a good sports car, they need a competent company (Subaru) to make one for them........

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:52 pm

I dont know why they dont do the Prodrive P2

It is a coupe, has a 257Kw wrx motor, active centre and rear diffs to give prefect cornering and it looks mean!

I have read somewhere that if Subaru/Toyota do this car, the Subaru badged ones will be AWD and the Toyota ones will be RWD.

RetroLover · Post by **RetroLover** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:50 pm

AndrewT wrote:So it's like a Subaru but inferior due to no AWD

At the moment the development is just a RWD, but there are possible alternative variants of the vehicle with AWD. Somewhat like the older Nissan skyline with the basic models having standard RWD and the other models having the AWD configuration.

RetroLover · Post by **RetroLover** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:55 pm

INEEDABEER wrote:That will also be the next Celica.

Yes it will. But as i suggested its more Toyota Corolla AE86 due the vehicles compact coupe nature with RWD configuration, not FWD like the last few generations of Toyota Celica. But overall Its a merge project of a Subaru/Toyota Vortex/Alcylone/Corolla AE86. The best of both worlds fusion together.

RetroLover · Post by **RetroLover** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:58 pm

Xtreme_RX wrote:As we all know Toyota can’t make a good sports car, they need a competent company (Subaru) to make one for them........

We'll just wait until there is a full review of the vehicle once it is off the production line. This is going to be a really good car whatever the finally result is.

RetroLover · Post by **RetroLover** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:07 pm

Suparoo wrote:I dont know why they dont do the Prodrive P2

It is a coupe, has a 257Kw wrx motor, active centre and rear diffs to give prefect cornering and it looks mean!

I have read somewhere that if Subaru/Toyota do this car, the Subaru badged ones will be AWD and the Toyota ones will be RWD.

Tell me about it. The Prodrive P2 should have been put on production. It had alot of interested consumers who would of bought it. But what happens when you have a company run by a bunch of stingy accountants instead of a congregation of visonary enthusiasts at its board. I would have bought one of these if it came into production it looks really cool, much more better looking than the current Impreza. It was a fantastic packed vehicle with features like the active controlled diff.

I think that all variants of the project vehicle would be all badged as one, both RWD and AWD variants.

RetroLover · Post by **RetroLover** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:16 am

There is no dening that im completly obssessed about the Subaru/Toyota XT/SVX/AE86 project. I dont think there has been a time where i have been so interested in on one car project.

Heres some more detials ive managed to collect about the devopment

Suggested weight "1000kg-1100kg", which means this car will be as light as the last model of Toyota Corolla. Good for economy with these BS oil prices.

Engine variant where suggested to be a 2.5L turbocharged 4 from the Impreza WRX. This was suggested one of the model variants possible with AWD. The other engines are thought to be between the cubic capacity of 1500cc to 2000cc, in both naturally aspirated and turbo forced induced form. This is also good economy.

With this vehicles weight and engine size combined with RWD or AWD configuration this car will be very practicle and economical to drive around in which is a must for todays oil prices. And most importantly of all a fun little car to go for fang sessions in:D

RetroLover · Post by **RetroLover** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:20 am

Here's some updated information on the Toyota/Subaru sports production which is due at the end of the decade:

http://www.worldcarfans.com./9081022.00 ... sports-car

Also rumored that the Fifth gen Liberty might have an up spec model featuring a exdended cubic capacity 3.6 Liter Flat six found in the Subaru Tribeca range, which is will be extended to 3.7L, also include turbo unit as well. That'll be one sweet Liberty to drive around in.

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:55 am

RetroLover wrote:Subaru also has no compact coupe on the market either since the Alcyone SVX was stopped production in the 90s.

Sorry to disagree here but I think my 1998 22B is much more compact than my 1996 SVX... especially weight lol

Wilbur · Post by **Wilbur** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:01 am

Xtreme_RX wrote:As we all know Toyota can’t make a good sports car, they need a competent company (Subaru) to make one for them........

Huh ? Good for what ?

Supra anyone

Xtreme_RX · Post by **Xtreme_RX** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:19 am

White_Lightning_Rex wrote:
Supra anyone

Thats my point!

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:17 pm

There's no denying that the AE86 Corolla GT's - Sprinters and Truenos had and still have a cult following , I've had a bit to do with the Aus spec (poverty pac) Sprinter as we had one for a few years - missus's ride .

I thought long and hard about flicking the 4A-C carby engine for the injected 4AGE twin cam but the body was getting cancer in it and the propper bits were expensive and hard to find . Like an RX Turbo Corolla GT's have unique diffs/brakes/gearboxes and the proper TVIS RWD inlet manifold and airbox is rocking horse do do .
Right about the time we sold it the local import dealer started selling the real Jap spec ones for 8-10G and that would be the way to go because I doubt you could properly build one for less .
Toyota had a few front drive config options the RWD cars didn't get like the 4AGZE which was an injected supercharged version , also there was a five valves per cylinder option but really the quad throttle inlet manifold was the thing that tied it all together .

I'd be sceptical that Toyota and Subaru would put together an AE86 type thing as so much has changed in the last 23 years including all the porky over complicated failure prone garbage such as ABS ASC drivers hand bags etc etc . Throw in the 6 stacker and multi zone air con which all todays metrosexuals insist on having and having it down around 1000-1100 kg would be inpossible within a sustainable price structure .

I'm not as sold on flat engies as I once was because they don't operate in the opposing way that I assumed they did . EA's and EJ's fire adjacent cylinders not opposing ones so the power strokes are not opposed at all .
All they've really gained is some packaging points like most of the engine mass being in the horisontal plain about the cranks center line and that they are either 2.5 or 3.5 cylinders long depending on whether they're a flat 4 or 6 . The split aluminium block (cases really) is not strong and the con rod length to stroke ratio is pretty piss poor particularly on EJ25's . The component count is also higher that an inline 4 or V6 normally is .

The other disadvantage in a Subaru is the width of the engine , notice how far the engine is ahead of the axis between the front wheels which is bad for front to rear weight balance . Also it eats into the space that bulkier towers and far better working multilink front suspension could live .

Todays cars are not designed to handle too well at all , to be "safe" for Mr Mrs and Miss they are set up to be understeerers so that the best crumple zone (front of a car) gets to plough into whater people chose to hit .
Active stability control (non driver innitiated ABS and brake inputs) are an attemp to make cars not spin when knuckle heads plant the middle pedal strangle the wheel close the eyes and moan for mum .

Moron mobs such as the NRMA and their OS brothers have all but made all these nanny (ninny) systems virtually mandatory for the manufacturers so it's no secret why cars weigh (and cost) so much for their size .

With the current regulations it's simply not possible to replicate an 83-85 AE86so if you really do want something of that nature your going to have to buy an original or even something better like a Mazda Miata (MX5 here) or a bit more sporty looking and heavier Nissan S15 200 SX .

That thing in the pics looks to be shorter and wider than an AE86 (biased towards cabin space) and this makes cars like this much harder to drive on the edge .
AWD is completly useless in a drift car because spinning front wheels don't steer too well . Also the front differential places even more weight in the front of the car and having to have it where it won't give bad CV angularity issues screws up front suspension geometry .
Don't let anyone tell you that AWD is all win because it's far from it in a sports type car , more traction yes but it can create as many problems as it solves with weight and handling .
Subaru like it because it lets them get away with not having wide boots which require deep arches (which eat into cabin area) .
Next time you look at an 80 or 100 series Landing barge check out the external width and the internal cabin space width . They lose heaps don't they ?

Toyota and Subaru may be playing marketing games but people don't have to get sucked in by it - do they ?

A .

Another essay from the poisoned pen er keyboard .

The other thing was for the weight of an AE86 a buzzy high reving 1600 cc engine was no stump puller - like a Ford/Cosworth 1600 BDA you have to rev them and actually a 4A and the BDA use the same bore and stroke .

The reason why the drifters like them is because they are long and narrow in the wheelbase so a bit more stable than a lot of RWD "lightish" cars when hanging the tail out .

Dane · Post by **Dane** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:45 pm

Hopefully we still get a good car to come out. After all, it's going to be a sportscar and fuel economy should be less of a concern if you're in the market. I'd like to see them make it more fast than green.

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:53 pm

Making it go is easy , making it handle and stop is the challenge .

A .

RetroLover · Post by **RetroLover** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 5:06 am

RSR 555 wrote:Sorry to disagree here but I think my 1998 22B is much more compact than my 1996 SVX... especially weight lol

I used incorrect wording there, i should of said SVX sports car, anysports car with 6cy isnt really compact, with weight and all. Im sure the 3.3Liter EG33 engine makes the SVX a bit of a heavy b#tch, rather than a compact sports car. But still a sports car.

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discopotato03 wrote:I'd be sceptical that Toyota and Subaru would put together an AE86 type thing as so much has changed in the last 23 years including all the porky over complicated failure prone garbage such as ABS ASC drivers hand bags etc etc . Throw in the 6 stacker and multi zone air con which all todays metrosexuals insist on having and having it down around 1000-1100 kg would be inpossible within a sustainable price structure .

I couldnt agree with you more there. It most likely will have a sh#t load of air bags along with huge thick chunky A and C pillars that new cars have. My guess it will weigh a fair bit more in mass compared to the half a century old AE86.

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discopotato03 wrote:notice how far the engine is ahead of the axis between the front wheels which is bad for front to rear weight balance . Also it eats into the space that bulkier towers and far better working multilink front suspension could live

I was thinking about that, a F4 RWD engine/drivetrain setup would make the car very unbalanced. This would make the car prone to frequent and unpredictable over and understeer. My guess if this project includes a Flat4 engine in it, it'll most likely have a AWD setup for balancement. This will add alot more weight to the vehicle also, making it less of a compact sports car.

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discopotato03 wrote: With the current regulations it's simply not possible to replicate an 83-85 AE86so if you really do want something of that nature your going to have to buy an original or even something better like a Mazda Miata (MX5 here) or a bit more sporty looking and heavier Nissan S15 200 SX

Yep. All the good engines that Manufacturers once where producing all over the world had to discountiued production (or not allowed in certain locations), on a large range of their engines, not because the engine became inferior and/or superseded by newer ones, but because they did not comply with newly enforced Emission Laws. Just look at the old energic 2.0L Turbocharge F4 the old WRXs had, they are not sold in various places around the world now due to emmision regulations, the same fate will apply to Subaru's 3.0L F6 engine soon.

These Laws are stupid in the way that they operate. There are loopholes around them by uping the cubic capacity of the engines, but it kinda defies the whole point of emission laws... to reduce greenhouse gases. Dumb sh#ts, need to review the Laws. Include an allowance on all vehicles under a cubic capacity of 2500cc to be allowed to have more power output regardless if it is a forced induced engine or a naturally aspirated engine. That way buyers will opt for more practical smaller engines, compared to just getting the larger engine choice. That way the stupid emission Laws will actually work because people are opting for smaller more practical and powerful engines. Im going on a bit to much here, ill leave it at that.

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The car is not due out to at least 2010. So there are alot of areas Subaru and Toyota will cover before even releasing this car. But one thing for sure it will never be a replica of the old AE86 or XT or SVX, cause times have change along with benifits such as advancements in technology and disadvantagments like emission laws and fuel prices. I guess time will tell.

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:38 pm

I have a bit of an update on this car and the surprise was there is no AE86 thought going into it - at all .
If anything it's more to replace the Celica platform which shares nothing with the AE86 one .

A friend who chases this kind of thing up said that Toyota thinks they're losing too many sales to other mobs like Nissan and Mazda because they don't have a sporty RWD car in their range any more .
People want cars that they can DRIVE and front wheel drive snot boxes don't cut it amongst the purists .

Anyhow he reckons that Toyota and Subaru would like to have a model in their range with their respective badges because you get these curious individuals who have brand loyalty and won't have any others name on their car . Pretty brain dead if it's essentially the same vehicle ... Wouldn't you buy on price in that instance ?

The Subota (or is it ToyRu) looks like it's going to be a niche market thing rather than a one for the masses unit .
Hopefully for Subaru it will look better than the current butt ugly thing with Impreza badges .

Lastly I will be very interested to see how the transmission layout turns out given that the options may be RWD and AWD rather than FrWD or AWD .
Usually RWD with front drive tacked on tends to work better than FrWD with rear drive tacked on a la Subaru - for a sports minded car .

A .