Engine Upgrade to Brumby - Vic Roads Response

[Hamish71]

I made an enquiry to Vic Roads about putting an EJ20, or EJ22 into a Brumby. I was referring to VSI 8, which is the guidance onwhat you can do in terms of modifications. I was trying to get away with not getting a VASS Engineer involved. (For non-victorians, a VASS Engineer is the auto eng who needs to sign of on significant mods to cars under victorian law. they are not cheap)

VSI says if the motor is kind of the same manufacturer, is "similar" in power, and meets the emissions of the original engine, you dont have to get a VASS certificate. I queried it for an EJ20, and there response was as follows:

Thankyou for your email

In reference to your enquiry, please find below options for engine replacement

1. Replacement engine is identical to the original engine, or is an option allowed by the manufacturer for the same model vehicle
The optional engine must be offered in Australia by the vehicle manufacturer as as option for that vehicle (or certified variants). The change of engine may be recorded by VicRoads provided that the registered operator or a motor mechanic, or dealer in that make of vehicle or an Automotive Engineer signs a declaration certifying the engine is optional for the vehicle model, and that all modifications made by the manufacturer for the same vehicle model with that optional engine, have been completed.

A Change of Description form must be completed providing new engine details. An inspection to confirm engine details is also required. An original receipt for the pur chase of the engine must be provided as proof of ownership of the engine.

2. Replacement engine is not of a type offered by the vehicle manufacturer as an option for that vehicle or where alterations, or changes to the vehicle's frame or structure are made, and/or specially fabricated supports or structures are used
A VASS Approval Certificate from a VicRoads VASS Signatory is required. An original receipt for the purchase of the engine must be provided as proof of ownership of the engine.
A Change of Description form must be completed providing new engine details and an inspection to confirm engine details is required.

3. Replacement engine is not of a type and/or make offered by the vehicle manufacturer as an option for that vehicle, but is equivalent in general configuration, power, mass, and emissions standard to that of the original or an optional engine for the vehicle model and can be installed without any structual alterations.
The cha nge of engine may be recorded by VicRoads provided that the registered operator or a motor mechanic, or dealer in that make of vehicle or an Automotive Engineer signs a declaration certifying that all modifications made by the manufacturer for the same vehicle model with that engine, have been completed.

A Change of Description form must be completed providing new engine details. An inspection to confirm engine details is also required. An original receipt for the purchase of the engine must be provided as proof of ownership of the engine.

In my mind, this means as long as my mechanic signs something saying the EJ20 install was done in accordance with whatever the vehicle it came out of, Im sweet.

[El_Freddo]

I made an enquiry to Vic Roads about putting an EJ20, or EJ22 into a Brumby.

2. Replacement engine is not of a type offered by the vehicle manufacturer as an option for that vehicle or where alterations, or changes to the vehicle's frame or structure are made, and/or specially fabricated supports or structures are used
A VASS Approval Certificate from a VicRoads VASS Signatory is required. An original receipt for the purchase of the engine must be provided as proof of ownership of the engine.
A Change of Description form must be completed providing new engine details and an inspection to confirm engine details is required.

3. Replacement engine is not of a type and/or make offered by the vehicle manufacturer as an option for that vehicle, but is equivalent in general configuration, power, mass, and emissions standard to that of the original or an optional engine for the vehicle model and can be installed without any structual alterations.
The change of engine may be recorded by VicRoads provided that the registered operator or a motor mechanic, or dealer in that make of vehicle or an Automotive Engineer signs a declaration certifying that all modifications made by the manufacturer for the same vehicle model with that engine, have been completed.

A Change of Description form must be completed providing new engine details. An inspection to confirm engine details is also required. An original receipt for the purchase of the engine must be provided as proof of ownership of the engine.

By the sounds of it you can get away with the EJ20 without a sweat as there'd be no mods to the structure for this to fit in, going by "rule" #3. I'd be guessing that a fabricated gearbox crossmember would be ruled out without approval - This would probabily deem every MY 5 speed conversion as unapproved and every L series with a Liberty box in Vic the same (dunno of any of these floating around... yet).

Rule #2 drops the EJ22 unless you have a VASS engineer certificate - at which point you'd be going all out anyway - brakes, lift, larger tyres - everything you want your brumby to have plus some...

Interesting read actually - depending on the way you interpret these rules. Basically I could drop an EJ22 into my L with no problems as there is no mention of capacity increases and what their limit is (I always thought it was a 20% increase max before engineer's approval is needed...)

I'm sure there'll be others with their own knowledge and interpretation of these rules (or know of other rules too).

And the neater your conversion is the more it will look like it was meant to be

Cheers

Bennie

[AlpineRaven]

What would happen.... if the car is already registered then you change the engine over and call VicRoads saying that you have "new" engine in your car and pass on the updated Engine Serial Number? Don't they need to know what you have in it?
Cheers
AP

[Hamish71]

what would happen is that, if you read it, you would probably get caught during the inspection:

...A Change of Description form must be completed providing new engine details and an inspection to confirm engine details is required.

[El_Freddo]

...A Change of Description form must be completed providing new engine details and an inspection to confirm engine details is required.

Yep... this "inspection" is to verify the engine number is the one you've given them. Usually the person doing the inspection knows jack sh!t about what engine came from where - hence the neater it is the more it looks like it was meant to be.

A change from carbie to MPFI was easy to get the number changed, I should actually do it for the current engine too as i've since gone back to the carbie

Cheers

Bennie

[AlpineRaven]

Yeah.. The reason why I said it because about 2 yrs ago I had VN Commodore (was registered) but needed new engine due bottom end went, I went to VicRoads due engine number change - I opened up the engine and she looked at the engine nbr then let me go..

Same story about 4 yrs ago I had Holden Camira, I replaced the engine from 2.2 litre Astra engine instead of 2.0 litre, same story VicRoads doesn't know what engine is it! So I am pretty sure you can get away with it - if you put in 2.2 Litre in instead of 1.8 or 2.0 litre MPFI - VicRoads won't know because not all of them are mechanics and often the inspector knows nothing - just to read the engine number and checks on the computer to check out if stolen or anything - they don't look at the facts like what size is it etc.

Cheers
AP

[steptoe]

I can tell you that if your state RTA authorised looks up (rather knows to look up) the engine prefixes he /she can get a good idea all is above board/ pretty ordinary. Paperwork, paperwork, sometimes , it would seem, oversights occur. Seen several engineer cerificates where the dude has taken the numbers from rego papers and not actually sighted engine or VIN and printed wrong numbers! Rego papers were wrong !

[AlpineRaven]

I can tell you that if your state RTA authorised looks up (rather knows to look up) the engine prefixes he /she can get a good idea all is above board/ pretty ordinary. Paperwork, paperwork, sometimes , it would seem, oversights occur. Seen several engineer cerificates where the dude has taken the numbers from rego papers and not actually sighted engine or VIN and printed wrong numbers! Rego papers were wrong !

Yeah that what I thought yeah...
Cheers
AP

[tex]

"VicRoads doesn't know what engine is it!"
Yeah just to verify this Registering my wagon recently I had to show the woman where the engine number was because and I quote "There are numbers all over these engines it makes things very difficult" For a little while there I thought I was going to end up with an engine number of EJ22 now how handy would that be

[heath]

Let me no how u go with it because im slowly aquiring the stuff to put an ej2.0 into my 83 leone so am keen to find out if they do it for you because the cops already like looking at my sedan because they don't see many raised