Gears needed to build a closer ratio L DR AWD box .

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:55 am

Hi all , the latest madcap scheme is to try and build an L/Vortex type AWD dual range box up but with the closer spaced non turbo L ratios .

Firstly these boxes have 1st and 2nd main shaft gears machined as part of the shaft so that means I'd need a non turbo main shaft of the short rear or dual range type .

The counter shaft gears need to come from an EJ AWD box because the holes through the centers of these gears is larger than the part time 4WD ones - to fit over the hollow sleeve that has the front diffs pinion inside it .

Gee tells me that the box I'd need to rob is an early 2.2L AWD Liberty that had 3.9 diffs back and front . There is a chance that these are single rage boxes and that's ok except for the main shaft which would be of the single range one piece long main shaft . The correct short main shaft could come out of any non turbo close ratio L dual range box .
1st and 2nd may howl a little not being original gear pairs but keeping the engine on the boil at gear change time is too good to resist .

Just had a look at the online 92 Liberty manual and it reckons 1800/2000/2200 4WD cars use the closer ratios even the DR ones .

I could even use the L turbo 5th gear pair to keep the revs/speed std for highway work .

Who said Rex's are L proof , Sick em LEX .

I know , medication time ....

Suby Wan Kenobi · Post by **Suby Wan Kenobi** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:32 pm

What about just finding the ratios you want from an EJ box and fitting it to the L housing. You would loose the locking centre of the L AWD but there are a heap of ratios available off the shelf so to speak. There are hundreds of EJ turbo boxes with dead first or second gear that should be able to be had for cheap so you only have to find a mainshaft and it can be either D/R or sinlge range as the rest swap out.

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:28 am

SWK after looking in the factory manuals for AWD L and 1st gen Liberty I'm pretty sure that the an early DR AWD Lib box can supply everything I need .
I can retain the L's lock by just transferring all the Libs "counter shaft gears" over to the L's hollow shaft or what they call driven shaft .
I have to use a dual range main shaft because as you know they are two piece and my Vortex EA82 AWD box was converted to dual range .

What makes these conversions a bit more involved is that all main shafts (SR/DR) have 1st and 2nd main shaft gears machined into the shaft itself . If it had only 1st like this it would be a piece of cake - could transfer 2-5 gear pairs straight over . To get the correct (closer) 2nd gear pair I have to use a DR main shaft with the 18 rather than the 19 tooth 2nd gear .

Here's all the differences .

L Turbo ratios .......Lib and L non turbo ratios .

1st 3.545 (39/11)...3.545 (39/11)
2nd 1.947 (37/19)...2.111 (38/18)
3rd 1.366 (41/30)...1.448 (42/29)
4th 0.972 (35/36)...1.088 (37/34)
5th 0.885 (32/41)...0.780 (34/39)

From these figures you can clearly see that the non turbo ratios are closer together - sort of closed up on first a bit more .
I'd say Subaru have done this because the non turbo engines would not have had the mid range torque to pull each higher gear as well . I reckon they knew that a carby or MPFI EA82 was going to be no ball of fire in an L wagon or an NA EJ20/22 in a Lib wagon . Closer spaced gears would help these engines pull the beef because NA engines often have their torque peak higher up their rev range that the equivalent turbo engine option .

Also note that 4th is a slight overdrive in the turbo ratios and a slight under drive in the non turbo ratios .

The close set has advantages for me because it would allow me to run my engine in a slightly higher state of tune because the rev drop between the gears would be less . Another thing is that production syncros often don't cope too well after hard use and the wider apart the ratios are the harder they work . Closer ones change better because the speed difference is less .

Actually I have a pamphlet here from All Drive Subaru so I should ask them if they can supply the necessary gears for reasonable money , it would save me removing and transporting another box and having useless leftovers once gutted .

Cheers A .

Edit: Can't explain the smiley thing - its supposed to be 18 .

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:38 am

8 ) put next to each other does this

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:55 am

It has been confirmed by a contacts Sube box expert that the "short gearset" parts will fit - just have to get them .
Will be looking for a 3.9 dual range AWD early Liberty box for bits , are these common ?

Cheers A .

brumbyrunner · Post by **brumbyrunner** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:02 am

I've got one sitting on my bench that I bought for $250 so they're available.

Good luck getting info or anything other than a secret rebuilt 'box from Alldrive. If they had talked to me about the parts and ratios they used they would have had my next 2 rebuilds but instead they wouldn't tell me what ratios I could have or what LSDs they used. Wierd? Not to worry, have a new shop now.

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:42 pm

Yes no joy through them , didn't sound any way interested .

After speaking to the fellow who built my box (DR converted AWD Vortex) it seems that the complete hollow lay shaft and its gears can be fitted into the AWD L box though you have to get the front diffs pinion height shimming right . Basically the whole early AWD 3.9 DR Lib main gear set goes in so that's what I need . The hassle is that not all hollow lay shafts are the same OD I'm told so we either have to muck around with pinion shimming or keep stripping Lib gearboxes down till we find a gear set that suits my hollow main shaft .

My rally specialist thinks the shim route should be easier .
I don't suppose your box is for sale and in reasonable nick or even its gear set ?

Cheers A .

brumbyrunner · Post by **brumbyrunner** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:42 pm

No, I actually bought it to convert to 4.44 and bolt up to an EG33 in a Brumby.