Bratgeebah's brake kits for early Subaru's

PeeJay · Post by **PeeJay** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 2:27 pm

Hurry up, my tyres are going bald!! :P :P

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:24 pm

For the rear sway bar on my ute I just cut the mounts off a set of 2wd Vortex arms and then shortened a factory bar, either Vortex (thin) or RX Leone (thick), so it didn't foul on the brake backing plates.
Something I will probabiy offer late next year is modified rear cross members with revised pivot points and toe adjustment mechanisms (for lowered vehicles) as well as longer and probably adjustable radius rods for the front, as well as rear arms for MY and L with different lower shock mounts as I have on my ute. The whole package I have installed, which is also lowered, out handles my friends 01 WRX by a longshot, with no evidence of understeer and incredibly fast turn in, but I'm not going there untill the brake stuff is out of the way as I want to stay abreast of all legality issues with regard to liability etc before I sell any modifications to anybody.

tim_81coupe · Post by **tim_81coupe** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:55 pm

You are a champion.

wagonist · Post by **wagonist** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:07 pm

Are you able to repost the pics so that those of us who couldn't save the pix from the old forum can have a look?

Also wondering if you are prepared to offer a price for the rear end conversion only?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:27 pm

pics in the update album
http://community.webshots.com/user/tmac746

wildhorse · Post by **wildhorse** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:37 pm

nice work g

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:49 pm

Thanks

wagonist · Post by **wagonist** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:52 pm

Mate, that is dead set freakin' genius.

Your solution to convert the 4 bolt securing to 3 bolts, locking it in & also curing the difference in centre hole difference is, is, I seriously can't find any words that describe how clever I think it is.

Out of curiousity, is there any reason why the 4 arcs are in the back of the centre adaptor?
http://community.webshots.com/photo/452 ... 834lhIEKn#
http://community.webshots.com/photo/452 ... 915BNTJtc#
Looks like something to do with making the locating studs?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:12 pm

Thanks alot
yeah its the size of the machine tool that made the arcs while machining the studs.
The single hole, ie; the one at the rear of the control arm is 12mm and threaded to restore the shear strength to equal that of the Libertys 4x10mm bolt mounting method.

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:21 pm

*drool* cnc....

http://community.webshots.com/photo/452 ... 915BNTJtc#

wagonist · Post by **wagonist** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:27 pm

What are the rings for?
http://community.webshots.com/photo/282 ... 1046akdDgJ

Also, by the looks of it, the backing plate is unmodified except for the new mounting holes being drilled through it.

Are there different backing plates for the different model EJ powered cars?
eg RS turbo, NA lib, WRX -00, WRX 01-, STi, etc.
or rather, anyone know if they bolt to the same hub in the same way, so it doesn't matter what rear brakes you pick?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:49 am

Originally the backing plate bolt holes were welded up and redrilled and the ring was tacked in to reduce the centre hole. But they (engineers) didn't like it.

I'm not sure about the differences between backing plates so I picked the most common I could find.
I do know that the WRX 2piston rear caliper doesn't bolt to this backing plate, but I'm not sure whether the boss fits other backing plates.

The plates I have used are 1st gen lib/leg and are the same for 2wd, 4wd,turbo and na vehicles.

wagonist · Post by **wagonist** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:21 am

bratgeebah wrote:If the initial batch of kits sell I will definately have more produced.
The kits (at this stage) will have
-2 new rear hubs(cnc machined fom crmo)
-2 new backing plate boss kits (cnc machined from crmo)
-new brake lines and centrepost supports
-change over front suspension arms
-new bolts for rear set up
-spacers and blanking plugs for master cyl.(MY only)
-engineers report and adr certification
-fitting instructions with lots of pictures
I have also stocked up on backing plates and will offer them (change over) pre-drilled for those not confident doing it them selves. You will need a pedestal/bench drill some files and general tool skills to fit the kit.
Thanks mattw. It has been an enormous amount of work and development and a very large dollar and time investment.

What do you mean by centrepost supports?
Also, is the centre part of the new hub long enough to be a centre locator for the wheel as well as the disc rotor?

Which state are you in? Each state has some slight differences with engineering requirements. Any ideas how you might be able to overcome that?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:26 am

Centrepost supports are the brackets which are usually attached to the body or suspension that the brake lines pass through and are secured by a 'horseshoe' shaped clamp.

The brake lines are adr approved and although they are designed purely for my kit they come stamped with adr approval from the company making them.

I assume that with Australian Design Rule certification you will have no problem useing the kit anywhere in Australia as long as it is installed properly and perhaps inspected. Each kit will be supplied with a copy of the engineers report and certification documentation and fitting instructions. It will be possible that some people stuff up the fitting if the instructions are not adhered to.

The 'spiggots' in the centre of he hub are identical to a standard Lib. rear hub.

I'm in Melbourne.

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:27 am

Have you got any idea on what a conversion is going to cost yet?

What needs to be sourced outside of what you supply etc?

wagonist · Post by **wagonist** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:37 am

bratgeebah wrote:Centrepost supports are the brackets which are usually attached to the body or suspension that the brake lines pass through and are secured by a 'horseshoe' shaped clamp.

The brake lines are adr approved and although they are designed purely for my kit they come stamped with adr approval from the company making them.

I assume that with Australian Design Rule certification you will have no problem useing the kit anywhere in Australia as long as it is installed properly and perhaps inspected. Each kit will be supplied with a copy of the engineers report and certification documentation and fitting instructions. It will be possible that some people stuff up the fitting if the instructions are not adhered to.

The 'spiggots' in the centre of he hub are identical to a standard Lib. rear hub.

As a suggestion, your kit is desinged to fit to a variety of cars.
Some of them will require more work and parts than others to fit.
This means that some people will end up with redundant parts or parts that may not fit.
eg I've already got a disc brake rear end, so I won't need the centre post spigots because there are already brackets welded to the rear suspension arms.

Also, for example, if I decided to fit the Subaru 2 spot rears or Brembos (drool), the brake lines may be of no use (could get away with a fixed metal line in this case). Or if I decided to go braided?
If people are going to be supplying their own calipers & backing plates, it probably would be better if they supplied their own brake line. Any half decent brake shop can make an ADR approved line (& if they want to make a non-ADR one, I'd be walking away very quickly).
The kit's still going to need some kind of inspection by RTA, VicRoads, etc after being fitted to each vehicle anyway, a receipt from a brake shop showing the purchase of the brake line should be sufficient proof.

I don't know what kind of difference in price making some of these things optional would be (prob not much except for the front lower arms), but it would save making unnecessary bits.

Some food for thought

fredsub · Post by **fredsub** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:43 am

the "Backing Plate & boss on arm" pic...

that suspiciiously looks like the L back plate with the drum brake springs etc,

is that pic just for reference or part of the conversion...
...is something from the L hub/brake getting reused...
I thought the idea of this was liberty hubs plus disk brakes

maybe this project needs clarification again.... i'm a bit lost with the details...
I think this has potential if I get another L wagon (in better cond than mine,lol) and update its looks with modern wheels. L wagons are going fairly
cheap, factor in cost of this kit, the result may be better and cheaper than a
late second hand lib/forestor whatevr.....

certainly the kit seems to have a heroic amount of work going into it...esp the red tape certifications etc etc

BaronVonChickenPants · Post by **BaronVonChickenPants** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:51 am

I think it's actually the hand brake, most modern cars with discs all round actually have a miniature drum brake inside the rear disc for the hand brake.

Jordan.

wildhorse · Post by **wildhorse** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:48 am

Small question G!

What car is this kit for? My brumby is in desperate need for bigger wheels as AWD EJ22 needs better braking and bigger diameter rims. The work you guys are putting in is very substantial and i think it must be appreciated by those knitpickers. If you tell me i can use 5 stud rims on my brumby with this kit, and the price is fair for the effort put in, i am up for a kit.
Cheers for your efforts

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:49 pm

The drum parts you see are the Liberty handbrake parts that function inside the Liberty disk hat. The handbrake is then operated by standard Lib. handbrake cables.

To use the adr certification that I will provide, the whole kit in which all parts (including front arms) will be assigned part numbers, will need to be installed. If any variations are made then I assume you will have to get engineers certification on those parts your self. EG the change over front arms are modified to a standard that is certified and therefore must be the front arms that are used in the conversion. Certification is not applicable to handbrake levers and cables.

The kit does not use original centrepostst supports as found on the standard vehicles, nor the original solid brake lines. There are in fact 4 different variations of supports across the range of MY and L series vehicles and to simplify the system and have all converted vehicles consistant from certification point of view a new rear brake line system has been developed. The new centre post bracket is bolted to the vehicle
suspension system useing one of the bolts that attach the inner arm to the outer arm.
Stainless braided adr approved lines will be available upon request at extra cost.

Parts that I wont provide are
-disks and calipers (front and rear)
-Liberty steering knuckles & ball joints
-hand brake cables
-hand brake levers
-Liberty master cylinders

I will be providing
-new hubs x2
-backing plate boss x2 (Change over predrilled backing plate on request)
-rear brake lines & centrepost supports x2 (front use Liberty)
-means to blank off holes in Lib. master cylinders for MY vehicles.(no need on L)
-Descriptions,pictures and model numbers for hand brake levers etc
-assistance with drive shaft selction
-cv's & doj part numbers

Yes the kits retain the Lib. Impressa ets 5 stud wheel pattern and are based on the commonly available twin piston front caliper from early turbo models and most late models and will fit;
-MY sedan coupe wagon and ute.
-L series sedan wagon
-Vortex: no handbrake cable or lever system is developed but doing these yourself will not affect adr certification.