EJ AWD into EA 4wd gearbox

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 5:41 pm

MY_STI wrote:However the EJ box has a detent spring and ball for the low range selector, in the EA this is delt with in the extension housing.
I built up a mound with a tig and used a diegrinder to tidy it up, drilled a hole, dropped the sping and ball in.
The L low range selector fork will also have to have a bit welded on to pick up the detend, will probably need to be heated a fair bit to drive out the oil before welding, apparently the method for casing this peice gives a porous metal.

Hey MY_STI,

I had a thought, and not seeing an EJ box out of the car, would it be possible to just run a shaft from the hi/lo gear selector at the front of the gearbox to the gearstick instead of going through the gearbox like it does on the EA box?
The EA box only requires this setup for the selection of 4wd then uses the same setup to fit in the low-range selection. My thinking is if the EJ boxes use a LSD centre for off roading, there would be no need for the shaft to go into the back of the gearbox for the low range selection (as it does with the EA boxes). A simple switch could be setup to light up the low 4wd lights on the dash. Does this make sense or should i come back after looking at the different boxes?
I don't think i would have to modify the low range selector (internally) as this would remain standard in the EA box. I'm only looking at changing enough to get AWD with off roading capabilities in an EA box (but am now looking into sourcing an AWD EA box as this has the lockable centre diff and in my mind better for off roading... if i can find one this would be easiest and ultimately cheapest).

Cheers

MY_STI · Post by **MY_STI** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 7:22 am

Correct, your are on the right track, there is no longer a shaft that goes through the rear extension housing. Libs use a cable straight from the lo selector, this could be adapted or you could make a shaft.

The reason the EA case needs a little modification is it no longer has a detent for lo range. The detent is to 'lock' the selector into place, this helps keep it in gear and stops the slider/engager (don't know the technical terms) from rubbing on the gear. (this is what can happen if you lean/rest on the gearstick whilst driving)
Any mechanism to acheive this really has to be in/on the gearbox.

Might take some photos this w/end if I get the time.

EJ D/R boxes seem rife on RSLC at the moment, several around the $200 mark.

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:38 pm

MY_STI wrote:The detent is to 'lock' the selector into place, this helps keep it in gear and stops the slider/engager (don't know the technical terms) from rubbing on the gear. Any mechanism to acheive this really has to be in/on the gearbox.

Might take some photos this w/end if I get the time.

EJ D/R boxes seem rife on RSLC at the moment, several around the $200 mark.

Now the detent makes sense... And what is the RSLC?

Photos would be great.

$200 sounds good...

Cheers

MY_STI · Post by **MY_STI** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 6:42 am

http://www.rslibertyclub.org

Lots of former GX or LX parts from turbo conversions.

MY_STI · Post by **MY_STI** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:16 pm

After some delay here are some pics, hope it makes things a little clearer.

The case on the left has the extra bit for the detend welded in.
Something I forgot to mention before is that the L 1st/2nd selector fork doesn't fit on the lib selector, fortunatly the lib selector fits on the L selector shaft.

Close up, not real pretty but it works, spring and ball go in the hole.

Lib low range selector fork is on the left, you can see the extra peice welded onto the L selector on the right, although its not quite in the right spot.

The low range selectors themselves, L on the right, Lib on the left.

Upper lib gearset in an EA case, the peice on the end will have to be changed to the L item for L low range, again, interchangeable.

Just for fun, a dry assembly of the ea cases and ej extension housings.

Happy Gearboxing!

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 8:28 pm

Hey MY_STI,

Thanks heaps for the pics. I love looking at stuff with pics after some theory (i work best if there's a bit of theory and then some hands on experience or vise versa).

Now just need the two gearboxes. I would also like to get a single range 4wd box to look at the 4wd locking mechanisim, i believe this may be similiar to the L series AWD boxes.

I'm still keen to have a central diff lock, not real happy if i can't fully engage the front and rear together like the PT d/r box i got at the moment, but also hate only front wheel drive on road (i'm usually a rear wheel boy but wanted a subie badly and that's the way they are - that said i've also change the gearbox in every car i've had to something i liked better, generally auto to manual)

I'll keep thinking and toying with the idea... i hate not having play money

MY_STI · Post by **MY_STI** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:27 pm

No worries mate.

Stronger centre diffs can be had for the ej, although a lock would probably be an expensive exercise. AFAIK the VTD auto is the only ej box that has a factory centre diff lock, and incedently, the only one with a torsen style centre diff.

I don't know if this could be adapted to the manual, but I doubt it would be 'bolt on' modification.

Heres a pic of the lib viscous centre, might give you a few ideas.

Open diff at the rear section, viscous resistance in the forward section.

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 10:24 pm

Bloody hell mate...

Your just feeding my mind... It really makes me just want to play with these diffs and gearboxes to see if it all works or not... i'm kinda finding it un-bearable. Its a cruel world...

And with all of what has been said if it was actually done: a) it would be awesome and b) i could have found and most likely paid for two L series AWD boxes and all the bits to go with them...

That said, i'm starting to look for an AWD L series box... and still want to play with all of these... i really don't know anymore

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 10:27 pm

OH, and i've never had an auto gearbox apart...

Fang · Post by **Fang** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:11 am

El_Freddo wrote:Thanks fang.

Any pics would be good. I would like some pics of
- Hi/lo gear selector linkage setup (cable? or rods into/out of gearbox like pt d/r box?).
- The Diaphram and cable to the diff lock lever
- bottom view of the rear extension housing
- original console for FT 4wd
- vacuum solinoids to control diff lock
- any distinguishing marks
- anything else you think will help

If you could do this it would be greatly appreciated (maybe put a section in the tech manual?).

Bennie - I'll post some of these pics in here for your post

You can just modify an existing console to take the Diff lock switch/panel - these two pics are taken from on top and underneath -:

Diff Lock Solenoids (bolted to the LH Strut tower top)-:

Diff Lock mechanism on box - operating cable goes up to gold vacuum diaphragm-:

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:46 pm

Thanks Fang.

The central diff lock selector (more one from a single range box - the 4wd selector) has caught my interest now... i'm wondering if i can fit that to the EJ central diff or just before it to engage the rear end and basically bypass the central diff effectively creating a central diff lock.

This would require three gearboxes to play with though...

Well, that's just my mind playing around with the idea further...

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 4:31 pm

Anyone got a "free to good home" early lib AWD dual range box or a single range L seires 4wd box Or a dual range N/A L series box near Benders?

I'm really starting to itch with this idea -> I'm back working my seasonal job in the vineyard and it's given me loads of time to think (as it's a sh*t boring job) so this idea is eating me...

I've got some ideas as you can see above, but need some g boxes to play with. If they're broken i really don't care, i just want to find out if it'll all go together the way i'm thinking...

I'd also like to document this process so if it's sucessful it can be added somewhere for others like myself who want AWD and lockable 4wd in their L series... (or hopefully if it works, lockable 4wd in their Liberty/forester etc...)

Let me know pls.

Cheers

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:08 am

Please excuse my ignorance , which model Subaru is a "VTD" . The idea of a lockable Torsen centre diff sounds just the ticket in an RX Turbo . Also I'm given to understand that lower than the RX's ~ 1.2 low range gears are available ie ~ 1.6:1 . Are there any lower ie 2:1 ?

Thanks Adrian .

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:25 pm

discopotato03 wrote:Please excuse my ignorance , which model Subaru is a "VTD" . The idea of a lockable Torsen centre diff sounds just the ticket in an RX Turbo . Also I'm given to understand that lower than the RX's ~ 1.2 low range gears are available ie ~ 1.6:1 . Are there any lower ie 2:1 ?

Thanks Adrian .

I don't think the VDT is a subaru model... its the type of Viscous LSD that i think came from the Auto gearbox...

MY_STI wrote: Stronger centre diffs can be had for the ej, although a lock would probably be an expensive exercise. AFAIK the VTD auto is the only ej box that has a factory centre diff lock, and incedently, the only one with a torsen style centre diff.

I don't know if this could be adapted to the manual, but I doubt it would be 'bolt on' modification.

and apon reading the above from MY STI, I would say the it is the type of auto, probabily from a performance subaru. PM my sti, i'm sure they'll help you out

The low range in the AWD Dual Range gearbox is something like 1:1.192 where as the standard part time Dual Range gearbox (found in pretty much all 4wd subaru L's) is 1:1.5
These parts are interchangable too. I'm not sure what's required betwteen the Part time and All Wheel Drive boxes, i think its just a case of splitting the boxes, taking out the low range gears and swapping it with the other, but i'm sure some one will know exactly what to do.

daza · Post by **daza** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 2:56 pm

MY_STI wrote: Open diff at the rear section, viscous resistance in the forward section.

No offence intended MY_STI, but, Can anyone confirm that this is an accurate description of the center diff?
Because if so why can't we simply weld the rear half and have perminant drive to the rear with the viscous allowing some slip to the front for cornering?
Or do i just need to take my medication?
Daza.

mattl200 · Post by **mattl200** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:31 am

vtd (variable torque distribution) used as the centre diff in auto boxes from
legacy tt imports

cant rember what years though

MY_STI · Post by **MY_STI** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:24 pm

daza wrote:Because if so why can't we simply weld the rear half and have perminant drive to the rear with the viscous allowing some slip to the front for cornering?

The centre diff doesn't quite work like that, note 'At the rear section' (of the centre diff) is not the same as 'for the rear drive', my bad.

Kind of hard to visualise the operation but I will have a crack at explaining it. In relation to the picture left = front (cos it faces the front of the vehicle)

Basicly the drive from the gearset is applied to the outer shell of the centre diff so the whole assembly is rotating.
The two spider gears at the top and bottom must rotate in relation to the assembly.
The spider gear at the rear is splined onto the rear output shaft.
the spider gear at the front is part of the viscous coupling and has a splined output (at the front) to the front pinion.
In the centre of the viscous coupling is another spline which the rear output shaft also goes into.
The vicous couling provide resistance between the 'spider gear'/front output and the splined rear output.

So there is two splines at the front, the input from the gearset to the outer shell and the output to the front diff on the front of the vicous coulping. one in the rear spider gear and one in the rear of the viscous coupling. The rear output shaft goes through the spider gears and picks up both of the latter splines.

So in operation the front and rear are 'locked' untill sufficent force overcomes the resistance provided by the viscous coupling, ie cornering, then the spider gears act as a normal open diff. The vicous coupling still provides resistance when it is slipping.

Stronger factory viscous couplings are avaliable. Not sure but figures of 6 for NA ej's, 12 for wrx's and 20 for sti's seem to sound familiar, these figures are most likely a measument of torque, probably in kilogram-metres.

Clear as mud? Pics would help, I do have a dismantled centre diff that I destroyed to make some tooling, might take some snaps in the next week or so.

The result of all that is:
Welding the spiders would lock the front and rear drive permanetly.
However if the splines on the rear output shaft that are for the rear spider gear were removed, there would be permanet drive to the front and viscous slip to the rear.

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:56 pm

Digging up an old thread but I'm beginning to wonder if I've gone the wrong way . Gee arranged a built L DR FT box and at the time I didn't realise quite how the centre diff worked in the early liberty .

Out of curiosity what has to be done (front cases aside) to get a Liberty DR AWD box into an RX turbo ? The Liberty rear section is obviously longer so the tailshaft would need to be shorter . What other gremlins are involved ?

Also how does the WRX 10 -12 Kg rated centre Viscous centre diff "drag" (sounds like my Alvy side cast reel drags !) feel when pushed on the blacktop ?
I am just about to joint the road AWD crowd and am anxious to avoid power on (plough on) understeer . I've never been in a Rex so no idea ATM .

Thoughts ? Cheers Adrian .

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 12:30 am

Adrain,

As far as i know, the Liberty internals will fit in the L casing without any dramas. The centre diff casing bolts onto the back of that.

This'll give you a liberty awd box in an L casing.

Cheers

Bennie

AndrewT · Post by **AndrewT** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 8:50 am

In my opinion mounting a standard EJ gearbox into an L series is alot easier than opening one up and rebuilding it into an EA casing.

- crossmember requires some basic welding (I'll go take a photo of mine and post it here soon, its out of the car at the moment)
- shorten shifter linkages requires some basic welding (Again, I should be able to take a photo shortly)
- front section of the tailshaft requires shortening (last price I got for this was $140 including balancing)
- If your inner CV joints aren't 25 spline already then they would have to be changed, if you have a MPFI or turbo L series then they will plug straight on already

I guess if you were going to the trouble of customising the gearsets and converting to L series low range then its probably worth building into an L series casing cause you'd be opening it all up already.
It just means you have to go through it all over again if you blow the gearbox at some point in the future.