EA81 with SPFI manifold to carbie advice

ktmtragic · Post by **ktmtragic** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:31 pm

The electronics will do your head in go back to the Rooster

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:02 pm

haha,

this first pic Jules is of the coil in the trike. you can see a trnsister thiny on the right.

Then there this assembly. Sent to me by a kind contact from Canada. He said "you might need one of these one day"

Very similar. This one though has a cylindrical connector I believe connects to a condensor.

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:33 pm

Yes page 28...I have that manual printed out. it tells of that transister. Thats the round thing like a 10 cent piece mounted on the bracket. From that there are two wires to a two pin connector just out of the pic at the bottom. yellow wire from there goes to dizzy +ve. black and white wire ends at the connector and other end of connector is black and goes to earth. I believe now that that last pic I posted is the original unit and my wires with that small black connector isnt original. it may have been a condensor from another car.

At any rate the transister is there but the condenser isnt. So how important is the condenser. ??? $64,000 question. As gannon said- just for noise suppression. Will run another earth wire from the bracket tomorrow.

Tomorrow- earth wire, check if there are any codes, swap fuel regulator, might have the 2 wire o2 sensor soon.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:38 am

Well, that coil bracket with that thingy is looks same as those of the 4 plugged ECU of L Series (the later models/ Series 2) so that is the multi point fuelies including turbo.

Woulda thought it was either a goer or not a goer with this thing.
The reason I am on at 1.30 am is bright idea came to me, or so I think, thought ....

it is some years since the speed sensor discussion has been had by EJ converters ....some EJ installs seemed to need an input, and the debate grw about L Series speedo heads and whether they all had the reed input thing in them or you needed a mpfi unit to tap into the screw terminal at the back of the speedo head - I found a carby L speedo head had same as mpfi yet never had to worry about it as not gone efi EJ, or any EJ (yet) and that was L Series speedos, not MY. Some were installing cruise control magnet set ups to give a speed sensor pulse, others were sourcing some other sort of pulse generator.

I thought speed sensor connection was only to prevent engine from stalling on deceleration....just few cents worth

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:59 am

Ok Jonno, thanks for losing sleep lol.

Got a reply from my Canadian contact in part says (condenser)

"It might.Subaru did not put it there for laughs.
Only issue would be supression or non suppression of voltage spikes on the power supply line.
Spikes might be enough to affect timing.
Make sure it is on coil +,not negative.
I would replace it w/the same value you showed me in a prevoius pic.
.47 microfarad rated at 250 volts
Very common in the electronics world.
Here is a sample from ebay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-OF-20-SAMR- ... 070wt_1096

if you cant connect it is a capacitor SAMR .47 uF MFD 250V AXIAL CAPACITORS

As long as the voltage is equal or higher,you are good.
Avoid electrolytics "

Doug is a wizz at SPFI. So, I will seek out one of these at Jaycar.

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:13 am

http://new.radioparts.com.au/product/06 ... xZrTM7XCeg $2.44 at radio parts

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:53 pm

While I'm waiting for that capacitor I spent a full day on the trike.

1/I replaced the standard spark plugs with those iridium ones again
2/ I got the 2 wire O2 sensor in the mail and replaced the single wire one. The old one had heavy soot on it obviously from the supercharger

At this point I took the trike for a run. More torque at low revs. Running better and the O2 definately allowed the engine to keep running when slowing down - success there Toonga. Then At 80 kph full throttle and the usual slow acceleration then wham- for two seconds I had a very impressive amount of power. This made me realise I dont have 90 hp or anything like it. It feels electrical.

Returned home. Replaced the fuel regulator. A ride, no change there.

3/ Took off and inspected the MAF. oh boy. oil was in there. The only place oil can come from is the valve covers. The hose from them run to the top plastic/rubber intake unit top of the throttle body between the MAF and injector. So it must be blow by. Cleaned it all up and decided to remount the MAF higher than the throttle body so any oil coming into the chamber will be more inclined to run down hill towards the injector housing.

4/ Inspect and adjust plug ends and coil HT lead ends. Dizzy cap and rotor was good.

5/ Ran a separate earth connection form the coil bracket to earth.

6/ In a manual covering the conversion the idle sensor unit is reversed to make way for the dizzy the latter being located in a different spot compared to the EA82. Then it suggests that to remove the TPS you have to take off the idle sensor unit....and I never have needed to. This started me thinking that the TPS could be rotated much more than what I've had it (anti clockwise). Meaning more throttle. I did so, the wiring from the TPS is squashed against the idle sensor housing but its fine. Took it for a run. Much more response as if there is more fuel going in. Sadly- top gear still struggles and I know now that there is a problem somewhere that is holding it back.

The rotated position of the TPS. The TPS from this angle was moved anti clockwise. The throttle moves in a clockwise direction. Hence extra throttle.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:56 pm

anyone dare mention the four wire O2 sensors ?

If you had a good mate in Tambox, or maybe you understand enough about these babies now to tinker in your own parameter supply to the ECU to add signal to ECU to see if things change. I'd be trying it about now if I was you.

How many inputs ?

O2 sensor in Volts
coolant temp sensor in Ohms
TPS - variable or on and off only ?

can a board be made up with dials to provide the parameter range of each needed input, patch in to the ecu and take it for a ride and have someone brave like Greg dial in the extra signals to see if things change - make sure he hangs on just in case !

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:16 pm

What rpm does it fail at? Same rpm in both 1st and 2nd gear or only 2nd ( i assume) when you near 80kph?

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:09 pm

Steptoe, The TPS has been tested and is spot on- it is now the one you sent me. Same as my spare one both tested good and variable up the range.

4 wire and 3 wire O2 sensors I believe only assist in emmissions. Trikes dont need emmissions junk at all.

Coolant temp sensor (the one you sent me) tested and is spot on so installed it. Havent tested the old one yet.

I've made up a board for sensors. The tps cant be tested when engine running. Can only test when disconnected (I'm sure you know this). The MAF being oily could have issues. Tambox is busy ATM and has visited here and been very helpful. Think I heard him muttering as he rode his BMW out the driveway "EJ...luv EJ...should have gone EJ...". lol

Gannon, in first gear as my auto isnt in perfect order, it can rev very high with too much throttle and no miss occurs. In second at around 70kph it is missing a bit. And in top at 100 kph it just has no reserve power. But I'm sure if that power increase I got for that 2 seconds was permanent I'd be very happy. Now I know there is a problem and simply not me thinking the system is at its best.

I'm wondering about the coil itself. The capacitors are due here soon and will hook one up. Naru of USMB mentioned without the capacitor the current spikes might make their way to the eCU messing with the automatic timing change.

One more thing. If stationary and just revving up the engine with lots of throttle off and on it hesitates and an occasional backfire. With low throttle and slowly more and more it can rev easily to high revs. test and green plugs are disconnected.

Subydoug · Post by **Subydoug** » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:50 pm

Hey Tweety,

First question, have you watched the timing with a timing light while revving the motor stationary? See if it behaves as it should, advancing with rpm and all those happy things.

Second, does this engine have a knock sensor and have you checked it? It could be retarding your timing when you rev it.

Third, have you measured the fuel pressure with a gauge at the injector? Fuel pressure regulators will only work if the pressure from the pump is adequate and the return line from the reg to the tank is as non-restrictive as possible. Any pressure building up in the return line will alter your injector fuel pressure.

fourth, are there any wires coming out of the ECU that arnt connected to anything, or have been bodged with a resistor? Now would be a great time to find out what they are for.

Fifth, is it the same coil you have been running previously and it worked OK with the carbies? if so you can probably safely assume that the coil is fine and the real problem lies with the coil driver (that being if there is a fault with this area of the ignition system).

Regards

Doug

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:58 pm

Welcome aboard Doug

Firstly the cutting out on slowing down has been fixed with the new 2 wire O2 sensor. Idle is good. Acceleration in 1st and 2nd gears is smooth although slower than what it could be. Top gear and its slow and 100kph top speed unless downhill.

This morning changed the injector. No change. Good that I have 2 good injectors though.

Ok Doug, your questions.

1/ Timing advances as it should on revving. Havent measured the amount but I's guess from 20 degrees to 40 degrees.

2/ A knock sensor? have never seen one. The only one I'm familiar with is when Jahovis's come to the door. I have a knock sensor. She is a mini fox terrier

3/ Fuel pressure. Have changed that for another one steptoe sold me. No change. However, the return line is only 6mm or so I.D to match the barb on the tank inlet. same size as the fuel line from the pump to the throttle body.

4/ When installing the loom and ECU Scott checked it all. we had two wires meant for the Californian version for the EGR. and I had a spare resister. so I put the resister across that. There was another resister on two other wires in the same area with it already attached. Other wires are ones like speed sensor wire and neutral wires. The manual says leave them disconnected. The fuel pump wire is disconnected. I have wired in the fuel pump to ignition. Once I had the engine cut out and called RACV and they came along and found that fuel wire was intermittant.

5/ The coil is different from the carbie one. The carbie one was sold to the guy that bought the Supercharger.

While we are at it, can someone tell me how to test the coil. And what leads should be connected to +ve and -ve??? might be a issue there.

Thanks Doug

tambox · Post by **tambox** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:46 pm

Can't remember if this has been done or not as there has been more written about Tweety than my brain can handle.
Have you checked to make sure the rotor in the dizzy is pointed at the contact inside the cap when the coil sparks.
If this is not right you will loose spark performance, this reduces power under load.
The distance between the rotor tip and cap can do similar, if its big. It can be reduced to almost nothing by flatenning the end of the rotor tip with a hammer to make it bulge towards the cap contacts. This may help as well, but don't bash the c---p out of it with the hammer.
Check the contacts inside the cap and the rotor tip for burning or a build up of film, this hints of a gap/misalignment. They should all be clean.

Iridiums need a good high voltage system, else they can give problems.

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:19 pm

Buy a 4 wire, they have a heater in them and are always the correct temperature

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:49 pm

If only you could install a temporary alternative fuel system - have Greg hang out the back window and spray some Aerostart in the intake when at the Victorian state limit... was thinking an Impco 100 mixer, J or Cobra converter and a little gas bottle from camping gear and Gerry it up to bypass petrol system components - AFM, O2 sensor, TPS, fuel pressure, fuel injector just to split the problem betwen fuel or spark. As a test, not for permanent fuel.

This is starting bug me !

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:00 pm

Tambox, checked the inside of the dizzy cap. Couldnt get the rotor button off!! didnt want to force it too much. cap contacts good, rotor button seems in good nick. unsure about how to test spark at coil stuff.

Doing your head in- join the club. When cold if I start it up and let it warm for a minute then flatten the throttle it back fires and hesitates to rev. When fully warmed up it runs better and wont backfire but still takes time to pick up revs.

Timing advances to about 45-50 degrees from 20 at idle. Doing more research on the net now

Subydoug · Post by **Subydoug** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:45 pm

Tweety wrote: 4/ When installing the loom and ECU Scott checked it all. we had two wires meant for the Californian version for the EGR. and I had a spare resister. so I put the resister across that. There was another resister on two other wires in the same area with it already attached. Other wires are ones like speed sensor wire and neutral wires. The manual says leave them disconnected. The fuel pump wire is disconnected. I have wired in the fuel pump to ignition. Once I had the engine cut out and called RACV and they came along and found that fuel wire was intermittant.

Hold up, so your saying that you originally had the fuel pump hooked up thru the ecu so it ran when the motor did, but it was cutting out on you? so you wired it up to IGN? did you look into why the signal from the ecu was cutting out or did you just swap it over to get you back onto the road?

Correct me if Im wrong but doesnt the ecu normally only power up the fuel pump when the motor is running to prevent large amounts of fuel being pumped out in the case of an accident?

To get to my point, do you think its possible that the ecu was cutting the fuel pump because it didnt think the engine was running? I would assume it looks for pulses out of the disty to know when the engine is running. I think I spotted it once before in your spfi thread tweety, but if you have it at hand, can you link the guide you followed to wire up the disty?

Other thing that Im not 100% sure about is your speed signal for the ecu. Just recently had RSR with a brumby that had an ej20 out of a foz that was going into limp mode because of the speed signal being disconnected. I made a simple circuit to feed pulses into it which solved the problem. Are you sure the ecu doesnt need that signal?

Also, your neutral signal into the ECU, if you cant wire it up properly just trick it into thinking its in gear. Once again Im guessing but I would think if the ecu thinks its in neutral it may try to prevent revving its tits off out of gear.

I dont mean to sound like I dont believe you, but just to be crystal clear, you have indeed had a timing light on the engine while its running and watched its behavior as you revved the motor, particularly when it hesitates to rev? the timing should smoothly increase as the engine revs out.

Other thing that randomly popped into my head is if you do get the rotor button off make sure it has the little rubber insulator inside the end of the shaft and that its in decent condition.

Black soot on the O2 sensor. Were the old plugs blackish, like its been running rich/not firing? Im a huge fan of copper plugs, they are cheap and they work.

Remember, if you are losing spark your O2 reading is going to go lean because of excess unburnt oxygen, which is going to tell the ecu to inject more fuel in. excess fuel going into the bores can thin the oil seal increasing your blowby, may be an explanation for your oil in the MAF.

I have definitely rambled enough for now,

Regards

Doug

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:54 pm

Tweety wrote:Tambox, checked the inside of the dizzy cap. Couldnt get the rotor button off!! didnt want to force it too much. cap contacts good, rotor button seems in good nick. unsure about how to test spark at coil stuff.

Doing your head in- join the club. When cold if I start it up and let it warm for a minute then flatten the throttle it back fires and hesitates to rev. When fully warmed up it runs better and wont backfire but still takes time to pick up revs.

Timing advances to about 45-50 degrees from 20 at idle. Doing more research on the net now

with new O2 sensor ? Had an MR2 that did this and near killed me, both the noise and rich fumes. Disconnecting O2 sensor stopped the backfire. Never got to find out end result

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:58 pm

Something I found with EA82 crank pulley - circumference of 360mm. How bloody smart is that! Is your pulley the same, got a pointer for front pulley for measuring timing advance instead of on flywheel ?

Post by **TOONGA** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:59 am

Subydoug wrote:
...Other thing that Im not 100% sure about is your speed signal for the ecu. Just recently had RSR with a brumby that had an ej20 out of a foz that was going into limp mode because of the speed signal being disconnected. I made a simple circuit to feed pulses into it which solved the problem. Are you sure the ecu doesnt need that signal?

Also, your neutral signal into the ECU, if you cant wire it up properly just trick it into thinking its in gear. Once again Im guessing but I would think if the ecu thinks its in neutral it may try to prevent revving its tits off out of gear...

Doug

The speed sensor should be wired up, I truely don't care what the Yanks say I have found if it isn't wired up the IACV doesn't give a correct signal to the ECU.

Doug's little box of tricks would answer that problem

The neutral switch needs to show 0 volts in neutral and 10-13 in any other gear for the Auto trans, not sure how that would be achieved... Doug ? Tambox? Gannon?

TOONGA