Run ECU + its dizzy on non efi EA82 ??

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:33 am

We are fast losing the experienced members who know and love our old L Series so not expecting too much here....

A thought....OUCH..... scab an ECU and its dizzy from a three plug or four plug ECU'd efi L Series and chuck it in the carby or LPG series EA82 and let the ECU be its advance curve and ignition module.

Looking at both ECU dizzies both three plugger and four plugger run four wires out of dizzy

The three pluggers four wires run out of the separate knock box mounted beside the glovebox and runs independent of the ECU itself, so lets just concentrate on the four plug ECU and its matching dizzy and its four wires.

Do all four run from ECU and nothing else?

Does ECU get vac signal ? No me thinks from memory

What else hook up is needed ? Power and earth for ECU, four wires to dizzy, a wire to the coiul ? maybe? anything else?

Think only turbo versions ran knock sensor but this would be a good modern add on running max advance for power and economy on a carby model eh ?

The sort of idea Tweety would run with and present back with positives a few weeks later

nncoolg · Post by **nncoolg** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:04 am

Interesting!
You would go with the optical distributor system (4plug ECU) though, as the flap AFM type system (3plug ECU) still has vac. controlled advance on the distributor.
Actually, the MPFI flap type doesnt have a knock sensor, so they probably run pretty much the same dizzy as the carb model, except for a double vacuum connection on the MPFI one.

With the optical distributor you could even go as far as using something like 'Megajolt' to control and tune the ignition maps as you wished.

cool idea Jonno, I wonder has anyone tried it before?

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:04 am

If you are doing it with LPG, the factory ECU probably wont give you enough range to take advantage of the higher octane of the LPG.

Jaycar electronics do this kit (which involves soldering components to the circuit board)

Programmable High Energy Ignition System Its just shy of $70 but you also need to construct the hand controller as well which is almost that much again.

Microtech do a stand alone ignition controller for about $700

Is this for your RX? Doesnt it already have a RX wiring loom and computer in it?

Post by **TOONGA** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:37 am

I have a question about the injector pulse, how would you tell the ECU that the injectors are working?

I had thought about this a little while ago, to bypass the need for a dizzy on a EJ motor when run with a carby.

TOONGA

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:53 am

TOONGA wrote:I have a question about the injector pulse, how would you tell the ECU that the injectors are working?

I dont think the ecu would really care. It might throw a code, but the ignition will continue to work

I had thought about this a little while ago, to bypass the need for a dizzy on a EJ motor when run with a carby.

TOONGA

If you are going to the trouble of installing the ECU and wiring loom, why not stick with fuel injection?

Post by **TOONGA** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:08 am

hijack thread commence...

I don't like (not in any particular order) injectors, electronic fuel pumps, surge tanks, crank angle sensors, oxygen sensors, knock sensors, cam angle sensors... and any of the other sensors I missed. They have a propensity for failure and if you are on a beach 1 - 60 kms from a bitumn road this is a problem.

My brumby runs fine with a carby and dizzy, it isn't that fuel efficient but it is very hard to bog. (unless the beach is a marsh-mellow) and it has fantastic torque at very low revs.

the way it is now if I need a motor I have to find one with the key-way on the head. If I could get a cheap reliable distributor-less ignition (ahahahahhahaaaa) I could run any of the EJ 4 cylinder motors (with the right manifold) on a carby. (with a bit of tinkering any of the 6's as well)

just call me a flat earther

hijack over... time for coffee

TOONGA

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:32 am

TOONGA wrote:hijack thread commence...

I don't like (not in any particular order) injectors, electronic fuel pumps, surge tanks, crank angle sensors, oxygen sensors, knock sensors, cam angle sensors... and any of the other sensors I missed. They have a propensity for failure and if you are on a beach 1 - 60 kms from a bitumn road this is a problem.

You do realise that for an ECU to function, even to just run ignition, it will need input from crank angle and cam sensors, knock sensor and coolant temperature sensors. Even for a stand alone ignition controller to run a distributor, you still need the electrical pickup in the dizzy, a knock sensor and temperature sensors.

See I am of the opposite opinion. I would have a fuel injected engine over a carby, as I have never had a problem with my Outback that has 250,000kms, my mums Liberty had 430,000kms on it when we sold it and the only thing we replaced was the knock sensor.

Im awaiting Jono to let us know what application he has in mind for this brainstorming session

Post by **TOONGA** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:59 am

I have no problem what so ever with ECUs and electronic systems in cars that came with them, (a giant contradiction to my earlier statement, perhaps but the simpler a set up the less to go wrong when 4wding) but when retrofitting engines to older vehicles with no electronics other than a simple dizzy module, I go with the simplest set up possible.

And yes lets see if Jonno will let the cat out of the bag on this one...

TOONGA

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:12 am

wooo, looks in and impressed with responses so far

ideas come from deep within the old grey matter

thinking about my 'hybrid' of EA82 stuff to go in the Brumby one day (when the old EA81 hits 500,000km). Think rather than confuse my hybrid with electric/petrol hybrids maybe I should dub it a mongrel, or in****. It is the carb EA82 short of my first Touring Wagon, capped with turbo heads , cam and efi inlet manifold stripped of all injection crap 'cept the throttle body.

It needs a spark maker/distributor combo and have a dizzy I scored from Sam, and another I pulled from my one week ownership of a dirty old efi L wagon - it uses a four plug ECU. Kept both but no loom.
Surely that it is planted within engine and run off the cam it knows roughly when to spark or has all that been taken care of inside the ECU ?

Turbo 4 plugger has knock sensor but. eh?

4 plugger the more commonly available bits was reasoning

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:25 am

all this thinking reminds me of a tale with photos of how some journo? ended up in the back of whoop whop with a stranded Porch 958 or the like..some bushie fellow was able to graft in, was it Camira memcal ECU or two? , to get it up and running back to civilisat...err sorry, the big smike

Currently running my three plugger ECU on one plug to control the egr. The dizzy runs nicely with its internal module, advance/boost retard canister (I'll never forget this $227 baby!) and knock box. Actually, found it ran without the knock box connected - no knock either thanks to LPG's 109 RON even @ 12psi boost (yeehaa

)
Come to think of it , not sure where this dizzy gets its power , must be the coil if it all works on two wires when knock box disconnected and only one plug in the ECU

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:26 am

Well burger me, have we got some sensitive NW Taswegians as moderators? I can't even call my donk an inbread with correct spelling !!l

Post by **TOONGA** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:19 pm

ah the dictionary / word filter/ censorship at it again

thats intersting about the way you have things wired Jonno, I take it you are using a bog stock ea82 ECU (turbo or non turbo?)

If it works like that, then an escort turbo dizzy would work instead of a normal electronic dizzy.

TOONGA

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:43 pm

Yes, Jules, factory flapper 3 plug ECU in it. Gannon once tried his with knock sensor disconnected and pinged its little self silly, from memory, so factory petrol set up will 'work' without KS connected.

I guess a resistor from the engine coolant sensor could be used. Were the mapping that complex in 4 pluggers, or just O2 sensor to control mixtures. Must have been, if no knock sensor on non turbo.

Wonder, all efi EA82 had a threaded hole for knock, wonder if you could just hook one up to correct ECU terminal .

I never changed the termination for the auto to manual conversion come to think of things, ground or not ground, whatever the case....

the 4 plugger ECU probly needs input from TB as well ......

Here we are tinkering with stuff that was developed nearly 30 years ago

I am like TOONGA states his preferences with these old things, the KISS theory

I was told by my LPG guru that things can be so simplified with LPGT that the dizzy can be staked forever inside so no mechanical or vacuum advance, set it about 16 BTDC and play from there

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:33 pm

I'm sure it can work and I don't think not having injectors will be an issue.

There's no vacuum reference for the ECU and only the turbo variants run a knock sensor.

I think you'd have to run the Throttle Body Sensor to help the ECU know what sort of load you're pulling. You might need to also run the air flow sensor to keep the ECU happy. The cam angle sensor is built into the MPFI dizzy

So that kills two birds with one stone...

Cheers

Bennie

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:40 am

beginning to realise that the inputs from AFM and TB may well be for spark needs as well as fuel given their close relationship.

Another thought in the back of my head is Disco ...... on the side of the road in Ellie even before he thought of (won't mention the product) , he needed a dizzy swap there and then and happened to have one either in the boot or at home.

If I could carry a spare known working set up in the way of a common dizzy and coil hooked up as a limp home on carby dizzy or more common than 3 plugs dizzy ......