Leone RX suspension lowering

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Thu May 17, 2012 5:27 pm

I know this has been covered many times, but there is alot of conflicting and misleading information so I decided to start a new thread

I have an 85 RX that at the moment has 4WD wagon rear struts and springs and Liberty front struts and springs because of the crossbred brake conversion.
Here it is

Now I would like to firm up the ride and lower it a little so will try looking at some WRX front springs and struts. Has this been done before and what were the results?

Now for the rear, from a brief discussion with Jono, he said that there are 3 different spring perch heights in the L series and this affected the compression of the spring and thus had an effect on both ride height and spring rate. But what combinations give the lowest and tightest ride?

Bare in mind that Im only looking for second hand parts because at the moment, I cannot afford to spend big money on car that isnt even registered yet.

All comments and discussion are welcome

nncoolg · Post by **nncoolg** » Thu May 17, 2012 5:49 pm

If you already have the 4wd rear shocks in Gannon, they are the lowest available at 130mm from center of eye to bottom of the spring seat. Some people make an additional, lower set of holes in the trailing arms to mount the shock a little lower again.

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Thu May 17, 2012 6:06 pm

So wagon shocks are the ones to use, what about springs?

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Thu May 17, 2012 6:07 pm

Which looks a little bodgy ... a female Wiggle ! eh ? .... er , sidetracked there for a moment ,if you search TOONGAs stuff he had a pic of his adjusted rear lower shock bolt hole. A trip down to K-Mac in Sydney and you'd get a custom set made to get height and ride as you desire, or get your current ones adjusted. Might need some contact, an appointment, pull 'em out and present them to keep cost down.

nncoolg · Post by **nncoolg** » Thu May 17, 2012 6:14 pm

I like the king springs.
If you come across the KYB replacement part number for the early type rears, which have a rotatable spring seat with 3 different heights built-in, which must have been the ones jonno referenced as they would be the only ones that change the spring tension, (phew mouthfull) please let me know the part number, I would like a set of those.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Thu May 17, 2012 6:25 pm

don't you think same spring swapped between the 130, 140 and 150 mm shocks would also give different tension Nev ?

Gotta be careful how low you go as there is no bump stop like a wagon in the rear other than the one in the shock - 27 bucks each from Mr Pedder.

Took a while for my RX springs to make me happy when I first got it as I wanted it lower in the bum. A few 20 litre drums in the boot so you can vary the load - just add water, and get a new height to play with, then go for a drive and listen for the swing arms to CRUNCH !

Gannon, post up a few measures, like front and rear arch eyebrow to ground, wheel centre to arch.

Also rear factory spec is measured from bottom of rear suspension tube outermost to ground. The front factory measure is from centre of lower control arm bush bolt to ground

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Thu May 17, 2012 7:08 pm

Im pretty sure this is wagon rear suspension as the car was just a shell when Nev was finished with it. I'll check on the bump stops and also get some heights on sunday when I'm out there.

Is cutting springs legal as long as the untensioned spring length is greater than the distance between the spring seats, thus not allowing the spring to fall out of place. Not looking at doing this as a permanent thing, just to experiment

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Thu May 17, 2012 7:12 pm

#7249 rear springs from Mr No Bull listed for the FWD Leones bum may be worth a shot. I felt the factory FWD rear coils (9.50 ? mm wire) were no good on my sedans 4WD due to wire thickness and the different mounting between FWD and 4WD structure (advice got in here

and before we discovered the three seat measures ) RX rear coils factory 10.5mm? wire thickness

BUT aftermarket say they uprate by 20% to make a difference

nncoolg · Post by **nncoolg** » Thu May 17, 2012 7:59 pm

Jonno, the adjustables YES, they would change the spring tension as you rasied the spring seat, as the spring would need to be encaptured at the lowest spot.

The set-height shocks are different in length, not just the spring seat moved so no, spring tension would be the same on the 3 different length (approx 130, 150 & 170) shocks.
Also applies for the 4 different length front shocks, they differ in length as well as spring seat position, so the travel and springs remains the same.

I dont think you will be able to take much off the springs Gannon, they are only just encaptured from standard.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Thu May 17, 2012 10:12 pm

science of springs, cut them and you make them stiffer according to one of Mr Pedders underlings. Stand corrected by the master himself on the other stuff

One of the RX springs in my Vortex rear only shy of rattling with car jacked up.

Gannon may feel the need to experiment with looks and ride comfort anyway

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Fri May 18, 2012 6:36 pm

Its a real juggle with L Sedans , damn Subaru for not fitting the rear bump stop system like wagons have .
The problem is that you have to have enough suspension travel for the dampers to work properly . When you lower cars they get closer to their bump stops so the spring rates need to be high enough to stop the car bottoming out . The damping rate needs to match the spring rate so it can control the spring after its been compressed .
Another problem you get with Ls is that the rear semi trailing arms , because they're short , scribe a fair ark through their normal travel . So the bottom strut mounts don't bind up the rubber bushes need to be soft and compliant . Competition struts would have spherical mounts but you don't often find them in production cars - unless Ralliart had a hand in them .

Gannon I tried and failed to find a cost effective sollution and in the end went to wagon rear struts .
I'm not sure what size wheels those are but you may find that plain old early GX 14s with good rubber may work well . Larger wheels , tyres anyway , diameters can have a significant say in ride heights as well as how much extra space they take up in the wheel wells . The larger in diameter they are the less they can rise without fouling something so they can be a problem for cars designed to have small wheels .
Also unless they are good ones larger wheels are often heavier than std ones so more unsprung weight for the springs and dampers to have to control .

Aside from OE the only other factory solution I know of is the rally Bilstein struts and they have not beeen available for a long time .

Sadly so many things changed from L Series to early Lib and Impreza , the inbetween was of course the XT6 but parts for them are rare here .
I hate to say it but XT6 bits would have been the latest development of the L floor pan and IMO the best bits to use .

A .

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Fri May 18, 2012 7:14 pm

Wheels are 15" speedies? I think? I cant find any 14" wheels that will fit over my WRX front brakes. Tyre profile is equal to the standard rolling diameter of Gen1 Liberty of which the driveline came from. I also have a set of WRX 15" wheels, but these are a little worse for wear. I suppose I could swap back to standard Liberty brakes so I can make use of a set of 14" wheels with good rubber, but they have the same rolling diameter as the 15"s

I'll get a tape and measure the heights of the wheel arches on Sunday to get an idea of where it stands.

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Fri May 18, 2012 7:17 pm

I have a set of these in white that I'd like to use

But Im unsure what an engineer would be more in favour of,.. 14" wheels because they are only one size bigger than the factory L series 13", or the bigger brakes that match the engine powering my vehicle?

Venom · Post by **Venom** » Fri May 18, 2012 8:09 pm

Ask your engineer?

Mine didn't really care about the h6 conversion and what brakes it had. Except the fact they weren't factory on the car (had rs 2 pots) and hence needed a brake test. Brake test itself was seperate to and not required as such for engine certificate. I was lucky it was raining when he did the test, couldn't use the g-force sensor shit and he said "the front locked up first and i was satisfied with that". Didn.t have to pay for it either. Doesn't answer your question but i really think the only one who can is the one doing the certifying.

stenno · Post by **stenno** » Fri May 18, 2012 8:44 pm

Which engineer are you using Gannon? The guy from port Macquarie isn't in the game anymore.
Taree or balina or one of the Newcastle guys?

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Fri May 18, 2012 8:50 pm

Thats what I'm about to find out. I've been meaning to pop into the guy who does blue slips around here and ask him, but it seems they are getting few and far between. I was told there was another in Grafton, besides Phill Scott has retired, but he doesnt travel, so I will have to take the car to him.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Fri May 18, 2012 9:10 pm

RTA does not worry on how many inches you have as it is all on the rolling diameter circumference - terminology got me at the moment. They do stop at 19" coz they know most if not all 20" tyres cannot, or could not at the time, handle a load rating acceptable (for a specific car or all, not sure).

You may be able to adhere to donor driveline wheel specs or maybe have to stick with original car specs - or engineer has the final say/responsibility

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Sat May 19, 2012 7:16 am

So just to clarify....

I have wagon springs and struts and you are saying they give the lowest ride height? Even though the wagon has a heavier bum? I would have thought the springs from a FWD sedan would give the lowest ride height.

Post by **Alex** » Sat May 19, 2012 8:44 am

It's not the springs, it's the struts. 4wd wagon struts have a lower spring base than 2wd struts.

I accidently learnt this when my parts guys ordered all 2wd stuff for my wagon.

Front 2wd struts are shorter than front 4wd struts. Don't ask me how it works, but this is what I learned

Sent from my HTC Velocity 4G using Tapatalk 2

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat May 19, 2012 9:00 am

Gannon, I have tried a few wagon struts in my sedan with wagon springs and got what you got. Have a look at the colour paint daubs, green and pink or green and orange ?? and tell us what measure from centre lower bolt hole to spring seat. I think I have 150mm in my sedan and could get lower with KYB 129mm or any of other Pedder numbers that I emailed you..... whether they all work together as well as good ride you will find out

And if I'd thought about the heavy duty std FWD coils for the rear at the time for my Vortex I would have tried.....