Busted L series wagon - Lift block related

[Smokey]

Hey guys,

Gonna need some help w this one....

L series wagon, 3" lift. Where transmission cross-member left front Block joins the body, block and member ok but body busted (see pic). Also floor/under body just above where the block meets the body is all buckled too. Looking at the damage there isn't too much fresh metal marks, so I'd say its been breaking over time and just gave in now.

So how should it be fixed, and whats involved? Jack the engine up and disconnect the cross member, get it out of the way and weld in a larger bracket/patch piece of metal, bolting it to the body then the fit the lift block to it???

I'm not a welder by any means and don't have any equipment. I guess it won't pass rego either....


Bit of a spot weld here might do the trick


This one might need a little more than spott welding...

Any way all advice is welcome.

Cheers

Smokey

[fredsub]

hmm, not good to see huh? but I'm sure this is a common problem, like with the rear captive nuts.
Ok, had similiar problem on my L, didn't have the buckled prblem tho, but rust did the same effect. I first noticed it when braking, the eerie noises coming from the corner!!
basically I cut up the corner quite a bit and reconstructed with heavier steel.

one does need a welder and a bench vice (for bending replacement steel) to keep these subes going.
still I haven't fixed everything, eg the rear captive bolt problem I paid to get it fixed,provided you take it to a good repairer it shouldn't cost as much as you think, because it doesn't need to look pretty and its just grinding,cutting,welding - no painting and that sort of preparation.

I wouldn't even try passing rego with that, unless you just want to find out what else you need to fix and further advice?

[Dougz]

I just discovered the same thing on my touring wagon which has the three inch lift. Although I am pulling all the bits out of it so not really concerned with repairing. It is in a mongrel of a spot to get to to weld up. The cross member would have to be dropped a fair bit to get in to weld it. But I suppose this is not an issue if you havent got a welder.

[Smokey]

Dougz,

The problem is though thats its not driveable, at least legally and rego is due very soon. So im just gonna have to take it to a welding shop on a trailer all pulled appart I guess and get them to fix it up for me. ie rebuild that part of the body so the Lift & bolt can be seated again.

Me thinks i'll need to cut away the small effected area where its riped out and weld/bolt on a larger piece of steel to cover the hole then put it all back together again.

Would cost more to get it fixed by a smash repairer than it would be to buy another shell and swap all the goodies..... Including time and effort.

Bugger hey.

Smokey

[Dougz]

Mate if you werent so far away I would come over with the mig and give you a hand. Not a huge job, just fiddly.
Depends on how far you need to take it to get repaired as it looks by the photo as it has been driven a bit already. Probably before you discovered it.
Before you throw away your car body, go get a quote. Never know might get it done cheaper than you thought.

[AndrewT]

I think you should rename your post title to "broken L series" - the actual lift block doesn't seem to be busted?

I had the same problem with my old Touring Wagon...captive nuts pulled out of the underbody. However mine had very advanced rust and was not worth it. With plans for a WRX conversion I decided to quit that car and get a rust free one.

[fredsub]

yep, likewise if you were closer i'd come over with the mig. :P

I had a quick look at the corner of my L, and I think yours is not so bad.
I looked if I did some pics of that work, but no, I kinda remember now I nearly panicked when I realised how bad it was, and just went full bore to fix it over a weekend...no time for pics.
I'll do a pic tomorrow, the weld seams are still quite visible on the outer skin to show the extent.
And don't worry about the outer shell stuff, its weak s*t anyway, that needs to be cut away.

[stamp_licker]

you can get to that one from inside the car .weld a big thick plate over the whole area.there's 3 lift blocks there if its the area i think it is if so cover the area for the 3 with plate, redrill and tap. put the carpet/vinyl back down and no ones none the wiser

[Subaman]

Yeah exactly what Will said, L Series are know for that happening, I welded my three lift blocks to the triangular plate in my RX, and it hasnt come adrift yet, about 7 years now, it just helps to spread any load out over the three bolts that way instead of just one, and if you ever what to pull the kit out for any reason just replace the plates with some others. If you decide to weld them to the plate it is best to loosely bolt it all into place, wack a tac on it then pull it out and finish it off, just makes sure the blocks perfectly positioned that way.
Cheers
Grant

[Dougz]

I could be wrong about the exact position of this block, but if it is the one under the rear seat(when mine is), then no you cant get to it directly from inside. I already thought of this for mine, pulled rear seat out and carpet forward only to discover there is another layer/panel over it. If you wanted to approach from there, you would have to cut an opening, fix the threaded nut in place then weld the top panel you had to cut out back into place.

[Smokey]

Thanks for the advice guys! I like the idea of welding in a plate from the inside.

The block is the front left one that connects to the Gearbox cross member, just down and back from the engine bay. So with the hood open the block is just out of sight down the passenger side of the gear box. My guess is that its weakened over time and finaly packed it in due to a hard hit to the front left wheel.

I think I need some suspension arm too as there is a split in it. I have pics of all the damage, but ist very hard to get the digi camera to focus correctly.

From what I can see its the only block in the immediate area, but did not have a great look and the car is not here with me now to look at.

[fredsub]

pic of the repair I did on mine



I guess yours problem is mostly at the #1 bolt, whereas on mine the #2 bolt structure was completely stuffed. The arrows shows the extend of where I cut to expose the inner structure, it goes around to the other side too. With car lifted up high enough it wasn't very difficult to get to grind and weld in there either.

However i'm not sure about the welding of a plate from inside? didn't know that was possible to get at from inside??

anyway I hope this puts your problem in some perspective....so you found someplace to get it fixed?

geez that Smoov character really bashed that thing didn't he? or was that you?

[Fatz]

yes i have the same problem with my l series with a 3" lift.. my had no rust.. but all 3 blocks had come "undone" i got a enginner to weld the blocks back up to the body..
last 4wd trip.... i ripped them out again.. just pulled the weld off the car...
certainly does look messy now
I think the best(prolli not the easiest) way to resolve this problem it to cut apart some of the floor where the blocks have pulled out of, and weld some sheet in there, and "re tap" that nits back on to that..
Or you can cut away that actual section where that "plate" (forget what it is called) and mould a "floor pan" and weld that to the area.. alot of stuffing around tho me thinks?..
What i am going to do hopefully next week is try to get a sheet of metal or something, and get that pretty close to the shape of the plate, and weld that ontop of the "broken" area, andbolt the kit into that.. obviously i will have to pre drill the holes and weld those captive nuts to the plate before hand...
Hopefully this will be strong enough to last for quite some time... If if doesn't, i will try another solution.. like cuting the floorpan. or if it gets really bad.. i will either parts the car.. or buy a new chassis and transfer the components across.. Hopfully it wont have to come to this..
You guys might have had better luck than me.. but if i was you.. i wouldn't weld the blocks to the body... does NOT last very long at all..
Cheers
Adam

[stamp_licker]

if you really want to stuff a round just make the front crossmember, gear box crossmember and control rod mount, and at the back where the auto crossmember bolts on link.Join all the lift blocks as a half subframe should spread the load out nicely.

[Smokey]

Hey all,

Got the car home today. On closer inspection its actually two of the three bolts that have been ripped out and the third more rear one's not looking real good either, floors cracked and rusting. So Its all gonna have to come appart and be re done somehow. Anyone want to give me a hand? I don't know the first thing about welding 8O....

The cars driveable but not all day everyday. Did 50km today to get it home, some at 100km/h. Its the shifting and bumps that remind me I have a problem. Makes it feel kinda loose and wably up front heheheh.

Cheers.

Smokey.

[dree]

Be careful Smokey, I wouldn't be driving that thing till you get it fixed, if you have to break hard, you might get into a spot of trouble now that you've got loose mounting points. The lever action that those lift blocks introduce could pop some more mounts.

[Bratgeebah]

You could buy a front corner from a wrecker, drill out all the spot welds with the correct tool (get them at tool shops, its a drill bit specifically for doing this) to remove the rail section/s you need. Then take the car (on a trailer) and the rail section to a good panel shop and get them to remove the rail on the car and replace it with your new bits. The car will be as good as it originaly was........ and safe...... and it shouldn't cost too much if you remove the engine, gear box and anything else in the way, and give them beer.

Gee

[fredsub]

Gee, thats a alternative suggestion, but to me seems in reality hard work.
I'd cut away any outer skin steel in the way, grind out rust and buttress with thick plate welded in, then replace any outer skin. can also replace section with the inbuilt nuts, by welding new nuts to a plate. However I'd bet that the actual part of the plate with the captive nuts is ok, its the supporting steel around it that fails...hence the cutting out and buttressing works well. and safe.
Hey Smokey, think you could post a pic with a bit more perspective..ie to see the whole problem?

[Outback bloke]

You can fix it temporarily without welding. You will need a grinder with some cutting discs (use the thinnest ones you can), some plate steel (about 4-5mm thick and 400x100), a drill, and a few new nuts (12mm 1.25 pitch).

Fold your carpet or mats back inside the car. Take the old bolts out, then put a long screw driver you don't like up through the hole and give it a good whack. This will put a dent or go right through your floor inside. Now you know exactly where it is from above you can cut a C type shape through your floor pan. Do it about 100mm long on one side (front to back) and about 50mm wide top and bottom.

You can then fold that piece of floor back and see down in to where the captured nut was. Cut yourself a bit of the plate steel as big as you can get to fit in over where the hole in the bottom is. Drill a hole in it to suit for your bolt. You can then put the lift bolt back in and get your missus or a mate to hold the new nut on top and tighten your kit back up.

You have basically put a huge washer inside your subframe. I would say to take it to a welder and get them to weld it all in place and also get them to "re-capture" the nut. Once they have welded inside the subframe, fold the floor back over and get them to weld that as well.

BTW, the bigger the plate you can get in there, the stronger it is going to be.

[Smokey]

Hey all,

Thanks for that great idea BYB-01, nice and clear too. I'll take a look at my options and get a quote or two from smash repairs and maybe a welding/engineering shop. But will have to do your trick in the meantime to get me mobile again.

Fred you asked for a few more pics to paint a better picture, so I have taken a heap from all angles.

















And what she looks like on the outside....



Cheers,

Smokey