EA81 Overhaul thread

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:03 pm

steptoe wrote:Can we scrub that last line of your sig? think you are jinxin' yerself

Done

Engine is out now, back to looking at an empty engine bay

Flywheel was solid as a rock as well.

Bennie the only things I replaced were rings and bearings. So you're right using the old pistons etc could have been my un-doing

Next time I rebuild an engine, it's getting the lot. I only didn't do it properly this time because when I started I didn't have a job, and buying all new parts would have been as much as a replacement engine which I didn't have the money for anyway etc etc.
Bit different now though, thankfully

Getting a bit sick of catching the bus home every day though...

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:40 pm

Silverbullet wrote:Bennie the only things I replaced were rings and bearings. So you're right using the old pistons etc could have been my un-doing Next time I rebuild an engine, it's getting the lot. I only didn't do it properly this time because when I started I didn't have a job, and buying all new parts would have been as much as a replacement engine which I didn't have the money for anyway

Yeah I can understand the predicament but when it comes down to the money and time and effort of an engine strip down and rebuild, you're better off not going down the pub/movies/living for those few days to get the funds together for a critical component such as the pistons.

You know the bearings (should) be good, maybe pull the engine down and replace the pistons - I don't know if you could get away with using the rings you've put in there while just replacing the pistons... You will need all of those little fiddly bits of gaskets, O rings etc.

Maybe something to look in to while you continue to catch the bus - while a pain in the arse it must be working otherwise you'd be looking for another way to get to work!

Plus if this solution is possible, imagine the feeling you would experience when it all goes together and works as it should

Cheers

Bennie

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 4:08 pm

El_Freddo wrote:Yeah I can understand the predicament but when it comes down to the money and time and effort of an engine strip down and rebuild, you're better off not going down the pub/movies/living for those few days to get the funds together for a critical component such as the pistons.

You know the bearings (should) be good, maybe pull the engine down and replace the pistons - I don't know if you could get away with using the rings you've put in there while just replacing the pistons... You will need all of those little fiddly bits of gaskets, O rings etc.

Maybe something to look in to while you continue to catch the bus - while a pain in the arse it must be working otherwise you'd be looking for another way to get to work!

Plus if this solution is possible, imagine the feeling you would experience when it all goes together and works as it should

Cheers

Bennie

A tempting idea, if I did that I would get oversized pistons, rebore etc...no point messing around right?

But right now I just need the car running and driving again, just spent money on rego (and it still has a full tank of 98 in it

) and it would be wasted if I had it sitting in the carport for another 3 months. Like I said I'll see about buying the subareck engine outright, but I'm not sure of my chances there.

I'm not put off building another engine, I would definitely do it if I had another car to drive around in meanwhile or could get another motor without swapping the old one. Right now though the easiest option is just to swap it and be done...sad I know

sven '2' · Post by **sven '2'** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:33 am

Visit Steve at Rising Sun before you go any further.

He is just around the corner from you.

A 10min face-to-face could save a lot (more) heartache and get you back on the road sooner.

tony · Post by **tony** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:45 am

listened to the engine sounds like it is a big end, maybe faulty or wrong size, or the oil channel was blocked with crap, or it was fitted wrong, or not tensioned right. doubt it is a main bearing the noise they make is different more of a thump thump thump, and usually only under pressure like when accelerating.
drop the sump you have the motor out. check the crank for damage and check the bearing cap it may have been put on the wrong way around or be broken. you might get away with just putting a new shell in.
as an afterthought I had a similar noise on the hq, turned out one of the clutch cover bolts had come loose and was hitting the gearbox bell housing.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:09 am

sumps don't reveal much in a boxers big end dept or mains for that matter. I always try to get another engine to send off for machining and do my build then do the exchange whenever possible . More crap to have sitting around after though coz I keep the old one for up to seven years then sell for $5 scrap value

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:17 pm

steptoe wrote: I keep the old one for up to seven years

Jonno, they're car parts... not tax receipts!!

Cheers

Bennie

tony · Post by **tony** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:09 pm

haven't done a subi motor for about 30 years, but surely you can check the bearings with the sump off?
also had a thought, might pay to have a look at the valve lifters, you might have a collapsed one.
although the motor doesn't sound like its got a dud cylinder..

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:14 pm

tony wrote:haven't done a subi motor for about 30 years, but surely you can check the bearings with the sump off?

I know you can't with the EA82 or EJ22 as there are bars/caging that helps hold the bottom end together for strength - very hard to see or prod the bottom end with the sump removed.

Cheers

Bennie

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:12 pm

Silverbullet wrote:

Tony, this is what you can see with the sump off, a pic from waaay back in the thread. And it has solid lifters so a collapsed one is out of the question. Also replacing anything to do with bearings or caps means splitting the block. There was also no bits in the oil when I drained it if that's any indication of smashed bearings/caps.

Sven, appreciate the concern but at the moment I'm sticking to my plan which is; taking the subareck motor and seeing about buying it outright so I can keep the old one for an autopsy. With this the car could be driving again by this time next week. If it turns out too expensive to buy it outright then I'll just have to let it go...sadly

If it all goes to plan and the car is driving again (reliably) for the rest of the month, I can get on with the weber conversion and bigger exhaust...Shouldn't jinx myself eh?

tony · Post by **tony** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:46 am

if it was a bearing i would expect to see silver flakes or bits in the bottom of the sump or the oil..

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:59 am

EA82 you can see a bit more, like the bottom skirts of the pistons with sump off. Come on pull it apart Sam. Before you buy ...and this one you can just give 'em the bits - was no condition the exchange has to be in one rotating piece. You wanna keep your heads as you have paid good money. I must have a set of EA81 heads you can have for the postage to use as exchange with the wrecker. Cost you about $25 as COD through Aussie Post and I'd get rid of a pair of small valve EA81 heads

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:55 pm

Ah sorry Jonno, didn't see that post until today; for some reason the thread showed no new posts since my last one.

Anyway, what a day I've had

I rang up Paul at subareck the other day to ask about keeping my old engine, buying the new one outright and he said we'd sort something out since I didn't need carbie etc.

So we put my engine in the back of dad's L last night, I left work an hour early today and dad drove us to the other side of town.
On arriving Paul brought the newie out, an 84' engine out of a 2 door coupe, electronic dizzy and everything!

Although I didn't keep that. Engine looks good though and they said it runs sweet.

First hurdle: Inlet manifold bolts were completely seized on one side (non original gaskets, coolant leaked to the two bolt holes) He had no hesitation in snapping the bolts off to drill them out later.
Next problem: Drilled through one bolt all the way and the drill bit promptly snapped off in the hole

Spent the next 20 minutes drilling and hitting with a pick punch to no avail. By now it was 5:10 and we had at least an hour drive home, and guests for dinner!

So I suggested we take the heads of my engine to put on the new one. 5 minutes later I had a box full of nuts, washers, pushrods and rocker arms and my old cylinder heads.

Oh and we found many things wrong with my rebuild, where do I start? First of all, the noise in the video was end float, main bearings or something were completely gone. Next, cylinder head nuts weren't torqued enough (didn't think our 30 yr old torque wrench was up to much

) so there was coolant entering cylinder 4. Number 3, piston rings probably weren't bedded in properly; quite a bit of burnt oil residue left on the cylinder heads.
I think that's about all that we saw in the 30 seconds it took to pull the heads off, probably more wrong though.

Anyway with a laugh and a thankyou, and a wad of cash lighter we left with the new engine, heads on, and a box full of my old heads and valve train. So I kept the most useful parts I suppose, but now I have 4 cylinder heads haha

Thinking I will go to Rising sun and get Steve to swap the heads over, or somehow fix the 2 snapped bolts. I don't have enough time to do it myself, and the possiblity of screwing it up again

Anyway, discussion later, our guests are walking in the door

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:26 am

just a day in the life of an old subie player.....

another topical suggestion is to save and buy thread repair kits for M6 1.0, M8 1.25 and M10 1.25 . They cost about the price of one thread repair by skilled person but is great relief to find you still have stock in the kit years later for another repair and you fix things no hassle OK I lie, screwed one up the other day) and no further cost.

Anyone dare to call Paul and ask about better price on a used short motor

tony · Post by **tony** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:05 pm

there are engineering shops who have diamond drills they can drill out the drill bit but it costs. ring around. might be cheaper to buy another head if you end up needing it. if you have an arc welder you might be able to weld a rod to the end of the bit and wriggle it gently back and forth to loosen it.
never thought of end float, it can be checked without dismantling the motor by levering on the front of the crank to see if it moves. the centre main controls the thrust it could mean just replace the mains.
loose head bolts that's why you retorque them. the object of a tension wrench is not so much to get bolts to a particular torque, although that is important a few ft lbs on a big bolt like a head bolt is not going to make much difference, too tight and you risk stripping the thread. the most important job of a tension wrench is to ensure all the bolts are done to the same tension, which even if it is out of tune it will be out of tune to the same extent for all of them. that way distortion is avoided, distortion is a real problem.
can't blame the rings for not being bedded in they do need a couple of thousand k to bed in.
oil residue you always end up with a bit of oil in the engine remember the new rings will let a bit of oil through till they bed in.
the engine may be recoverable.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:30 pm

there's a few of us never thought about end float - afterall it is a Subie not a bleedin' Triumph six. End float would likely change note when you put foot on clutch and change as you rive changing gears - did that happen Sam?

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:39 pm

tony wrote:there are engineering shops who have diamond drills they can drill out the drill bit but it costs. ring around. might be cheaper to buy another head if you end up needing it. if you have an arc welder you might be able to weld a rod to the end of the bit and wriggle it gently back and forth to loosen it.

When we lifted the manifold off there was some bolt still poking above the surface of the head, my first suggestion was to weld a nut onto it but we didn't go that route. And I've still got the cylinder heads from my old engine, so won't need to buy any.
Whether or not the rest of my old engine is recoverable or not isn't up to me now, it's gone. And yes the way Paul found the endfloat was wriggling the flywheel, and sure enough there was a clunk clunk sound.

Jonno I've already got the M8 set, next on the list is M6. And I could buy a new torque wrench and put the heads on myself again, but I'm not sure if I really want to right now:???: Just a culmination of things (starting back at easter weekend

) is wearing my patience quite thin and I just really want the car driving again. That's not to say I wouldn't do it again some time in the future, I just want this episode to end

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:24 pm

Well I've got the replacement back. Sent it to API engines (Rising sun) and apparently Steve hasn't worked there for about 4 years

Anyway when I picked it up not 1 hour ago the guy there (Bob) said it's a good thing I did change the heads/gaskets, because they were right on the edge of blowing big time. Most cylinders showed bad signs. Finally a little luck lately

It probably won't be going in the car too soon though, dad's gone to the UK for a month and I'm pretty sure all my friends are allergic to grease. Might be able to pry my brother away from his lady friend for a few hours though, we will see

And, with that little bit of luck I got this week, Murphy made up for it by losing me my job, well most likely. All the big companies that usually send work our way have all pulled the plug pretty much, very very quiet indeed. So the first to go was the last in...me. Supervisor said he'd ring on Monday to let me know how things are going, but I'm not holding much hope

So, once again this project car is on hold until I find more work. And it's in worse condition then when I started

Oh well, thems the breaks I guess.

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:12 pm

Got the engine in, it was a real hassle since this so called "Universal" clutch alignment tool is not as universal as the box says. So I got a guy I know with a lathe to turn one end of it down to 12mm (dia. of the end of the input shaft) and it worked a treat. Engine popped straight in with no worries after that.

Just need inlet and exhaust gaskets, and oil + filter and she's good to go...I think

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:43 pm

Silverbullet wrote:she's good to go...I think

No "I thinks" Silverbullet!! It WILL go and you'll be as happy as larry - I just hope that larry isn't a junkie...

Then you'll have to go for a cruise on a sunny day, take some pics in different locations so we have some photographic evidence that you're mobile again

Cheers

Bennie