Need any tips and tricks on the EA82T spider manifold remove and refit from those that have done it before....and remember.
Got some tips from Disco to beware the crumbling hose connectors. Looking at it reminds me of the first time I looked under the packed bonnet of a turbo L series - put me off the idea of buying it.
Any brains trusts out there recall step by step like start where?
I am thinking run engine with fuel pump fuse removed to release presure in fuel rail coz that gets a disconnect.
I need to replace all gaskets , hoses and pipes in order to do a proper test for suspected blown head gaskets and reckon I will be in there again soon doing the same tear down
thanks
EA82T Spider tips'n'tricks wanted
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steptoe
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Well, it took about two hours to remove most of what was needed carefully to get the spider bit off the injector section. Found the water bypas hose to the throttle body LHS was rotten to the core at its pipe junction - so much so did not need to even try undo the clamp. Why I did not try poke it two weeks ago when I ordered the hoses and gaskets , i don't know. Metal pipe from back of water pump to heater hose has the little junction that throttle body hose connects to. Found more rot on the throttle body connectors.
The hose on the RHS of throttle body to hell knows where? stuff knows how it is removed or replaced. Looks like another hose never replaced
The hose on the RHS of throttle body to hell knows where? stuff knows how it is removed or replaced. Looks like another hose never replaced
Been there lol
Been there mate, i just replaced a turbo motor and turned it into a spider manifold.
I left the manifold bypass hose to the heater hose disconnected.
At the moment im having to replace the turbo water hose .
Its between the turbo and the head and its a sh*t bitch to change.
Cheers Pete
I left the manifold bypass hose to the heater hose disconnected.
At the moment im having to replace the turbo water hose .
Its between the turbo and the head and its a sh*t bitch to change.
Cheers Pete
Use The Fork Luke
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discopotato03
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Yeah .... weeellll , the joys of having the much sought after Vortex Spider inlet manifold .
Two things make them fun , first the age of the things and second the lack of maintenance most of them have had .
I gotta go out for a while but I'll get back to this later on .
I think the best policy is to replace every rubber water and vacuum hose on these old things because as you've found they can be diffucult to get at and and cooling water wise can trap you or help cook your engine .
Later , A .
Two things make them fun , first the age of the things and second the lack of maintenance most of them have had .
I gotta go out for a while but I'll get back to this later on .
I think the best policy is to replace every rubber water and vacuum hose on these old things because as you've found they can be diffucult to get at and and cooling water wise can trap you or help cook your engine .
Later , A .
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littlewhiteute
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Why do you need to do all this work to evaluate suspect blow head gaskets?steptoe wrote: I need to replace all gaskets , hoses and pipes in order to do a proper test for suspected blown head gaskets and reckon I will be in there again soon doing the same tear down
thanks
Can't you do a leakdown test?
Regards
Gary
Gary
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discopotato03
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If I suspected headgasket issues Id pull it down and change them anyway .
At , where was it - USMB , they used to say that the only way to be sure with an unknown EA82T engine was to lift it out and change every hose and seal while you can get at them .
I know it sounds painfull but its a lot easier to work on an 82T on the lifter , or bench , to get at all the cam drive belts/tensioners/idlers water pump crank pulley seal , flywhel and clutch out to change the rear main oil seal .
AND the bastard of ALL bastards - the water hose under the turbochanger .
Christ that was a mongrel of a job - and in the end it was the pipe not the hose , it was dieing anyway , that was leaking .
Some ABSOLUTE moron at Fuji placed the turbo too close to the engine case and you can't screw the engine side banjo bolt all the way out before it fouls on the case . You have to unbolt and lift the turbo clear to get the water banjo bolt out of the turbo to get at that ^&*T of a rubber hose .
Then that turbo to header gasket which will be brittle wants to fall to bits and not seal properly . Hint , plain old black silastic fixes a multitude of exhaust flange sinns just don't let it cure/solidify before bolting things up .
An yway my pipie sollution was to get the equiv pipe off a VF10 and use it because it fits and is all steel leading right out from under the turbo where you can easily fit some rubber EFI hose and link it to the lower pipe near the head . At least if the hose gets ratty , which it shouldn't because EFI hose is pretty hardy stuff , you can see and get at it at the same time - unusual when working on some cars ...
I shudder when I think I drove my RX Turbo home from its last haunt in Weribee Melbourne to Sydney . All those time bomb ancient hoses held up together with a thermostat jammed open for nearly a thousand kays of remote Hume Highway .
It was back home it started doing a good job as a sprinkler and when paranoia set in I must have saved that engine a dozen times by religiously checking it and the water level every time I got in it .
Touch wood its pretty reliable nowdays but it cost a lot of time and effort to replace everything that could conceivably shit itself .
Its the price you pay with old cars that got neglected , cheers A .
At , where was it - USMB , they used to say that the only way to be sure with an unknown EA82T engine was to lift it out and change every hose and seal while you can get at them .
I know it sounds painfull but its a lot easier to work on an 82T on the lifter , or bench , to get at all the cam drive belts/tensioners/idlers water pump crank pulley seal , flywhel and clutch out to change the rear main oil seal .
AND the bastard of ALL bastards - the water hose under the turbochanger .
Christ that was a mongrel of a job - and in the end it was the pipe not the hose , it was dieing anyway , that was leaking .
Some ABSOLUTE moron at Fuji placed the turbo too close to the engine case and you can't screw the engine side banjo bolt all the way out before it fouls on the case . You have to unbolt and lift the turbo clear to get the water banjo bolt out of the turbo to get at that ^&*T of a rubber hose .
Then that turbo to header gasket which will be brittle wants to fall to bits and not seal properly . Hint , plain old black silastic fixes a multitude of exhaust flange sinns just don't let it cure/solidify before bolting things up .
An yway my pipie sollution was to get the equiv pipe off a VF10 and use it because it fits and is all steel leading right out from under the turbo where you can easily fit some rubber EFI hose and link it to the lower pipe near the head . At least if the hose gets ratty , which it shouldn't because EFI hose is pretty hardy stuff , you can see and get at it at the same time - unusual when working on some cars ...
I shudder when I think I drove my RX Turbo home from its last haunt in Weribee Melbourne to Sydney . All those time bomb ancient hoses held up together with a thermostat jammed open for nearly a thousand kays of remote Hume Highway .
It was back home it started doing a good job as a sprinkler and when paranoia set in I must have saved that engine a dozen times by religiously checking it and the water level every time I got in it .
Touch wood its pretty reliable nowdays but it cost a lot of time and effort to replace everything that could conceivably shit itself .
Its the price you pay with old cars that got neglected , cheers A .
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steptoe
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Bennie - the twins are still alive and well in my daily uber reliable Brumby, they are still bottle fed (LPG 
) on my 460,000km EA81 - pricked yer ears up eh!
Pete, you left the water heating out of the throttle body? No cold running issues? That turbo cooling water hose yeah have done that one off car used a heater hose from the rear heater unit of a Land Cruiser - must get that CH # tattooed CH2322 ???
Disco - you and I are on same wave length in not stuff around when in there. According to previous owner he bought all new hoses and paid mechanic to replace them 22,000km ago.He had some concerns the mech took a short cut - in what you can't see won't hurt him. These two hoses do not look 22,000km old, nor the tubes they fit to.
Neglect should not come into it in this case. I have service records for this vehicle spanning its first twenty years and 128,000km at same Subaru dealer - you'd think the corrosion COULD NOT HAPPEN The next 44,000km over four years no record other than verbal from a quiet member in here, big poster in subaruxt.com. He loved this car and had red moist eyes when it left on the big truck. A true Vortex nut, and who pays to have a 24 y.o. car detailed, he did!
Gary - why? it is the way I am - making up for being an easy child to raise. Gets tricky when dealing with buying a broken car. Previous owner reported idle and power issues, then slight temp raise , checked into mechanic comes out with blown HG diagnosis, starts hissing underbonnet steam on its 5 min trip home from diagnosis and running like crap, blows hose and lifters go noisey. Listed for sale due to repair quote not affordable.
Gets delivered with no water in rad due to drain request. Starts and runs. Oily gunk in dipstick tube, oil filler tube. Lifters rattle like they have no oil or water in them. Was a quiet engine just before I am told by someone I trust. Expected to drain buttermilk from sump - just two litres of black engine oil. Gave it fresh 4 litres of basic oil 20W50 and thnk it starting to run quieter.
Comp test warm engine - all four pots are within 3 psi of 160 !
Can't drive due to sold no rego. really don't want to add water back to this thing until all water options are covered.
Seeing this rotten pipe - now on order ex Japan I do start to wonder about other metal pipes and this will justify an engine out to inspect and replace
also ask why only two litres of engine oil?
I really don't want to go all out on this engine first up - heads , gaskets, seals, belts and all that bloody labour to discover more nasties. I'd like to be able to drive it to assess whether the lifters are gonna come good with decent oil and a few km driving or its a smokey bucket or something.
I stil cannot see where the RHS throttle body hose goes to - another rotting steel pipe? Also see what looks like a stain coming from throttle body itself as if it is rotting and supplying water to combustion
draws breathe....
) on my 460,000km EA81 - pricked yer ears up eh!Pete, you left the water heating out of the throttle body? No cold running issues? That turbo cooling water hose yeah have done that one off car used a heater hose from the rear heater unit of a Land Cruiser - must get that CH # tattooed CH2322 ???
Disco - you and I are on same wave length in not stuff around when in there. According to previous owner he bought all new hoses and paid mechanic to replace them 22,000km ago.He had some concerns the mech took a short cut - in what you can't see won't hurt him. These two hoses do not look 22,000km old, nor the tubes they fit to.
Neglect should not come into it in this case. I have service records for this vehicle spanning its first twenty years and 128,000km at same Subaru dealer - you'd think the corrosion COULD NOT HAPPEN The next 44,000km over four years no record other than verbal from a quiet member in here, big poster in subaruxt.com. He loved this car and had red moist eyes when it left on the big truck. A true Vortex nut, and who pays to have a 24 y.o. car detailed, he did!
Gary - why? it is the way I am - making up for being an easy child to raise. Gets tricky when dealing with buying a broken car. Previous owner reported idle and power issues, then slight temp raise , checked into mechanic comes out with blown HG diagnosis, starts hissing underbonnet steam on its 5 min trip home from diagnosis and running like crap, blows hose and lifters go noisey. Listed for sale due to repair quote not affordable.
Gets delivered with no water in rad due to drain request. Starts and runs. Oily gunk in dipstick tube, oil filler tube. Lifters rattle like they have no oil or water in them. Was a quiet engine just before I am told by someone I trust. Expected to drain buttermilk from sump - just two litres of black engine oil. Gave it fresh 4 litres of basic oil 20W50 and thnk it starting to run quieter.
Comp test warm engine - all four pots are within 3 psi of 160 !
Can't drive due to sold no rego. really don't want to add water back to this thing until all water options are covered.
Seeing this rotten pipe - now on order ex Japan I do start to wonder about other metal pipes and this will justify an engine out to inspect and replace
also ask why only two litres of engine oil?
I really don't want to go all out on this engine first up - heads , gaskets, seals, belts and all that bloody labour to discover more nasties. I'd like to be able to drive it to assess whether the lifters are gonna come good with decent oil and a few km driving or its a smokey bucket or something.
I stil cannot see where the RHS throttle body hose goes to - another rotting steel pipe? Also see what looks like a stain coming from throttle body itself as if it is rotting and supplying water to combustion
draws breathe....
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discopotato03
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Steptoe we elected not to run the throttlebody water heating and for the record its designed to stop throttle plate icing in cold humid climates - sort of water from cold moist air icing up around the throttle plate .
Mine just has a piece of EFI hose joining the heater pipe and I think it returns too - can't remember but will look at mine later .
That blooldy heater pipe from the water pumps top rubber elbow is a major PITA and virtually impossible to remove with everything in place on a Spider equipt engine . If we had our time again it would have been replaced with a section of heater hose that can be bought at any parts place and being flexible is easy to remove/replace . If you really want that TB heater line you could have someone braze a small piece of tube ie cut off carby fuel line steel barb to a short section of heater hose bore pipe and splice that in at the appropriate point .
I think you need to take the Aussie world reknown mechanical approach to making things up that are cheaper and do the same or better job as genuine avail only ex Japan spares .
My poor old RX has so many little one off bits on it that its not funny , yet they could be replaced fairly quickly and easily with locally available materials .
I strongly suggest you replace things that are hard to get at when the opportunity arises , good insurance - and builds in reliability .
Sigh , I REALLY would have replaced that lower turbo water line with one thats ALL steel to at least where you can get at the thing to replace flexible rubber hose . Subaru obviously woke up to the fact that a consumable rubber hose where its almost impossible to get at its clamps let alone pull it off potentially corroded barbs is a major service PITA , AND made the early EJ IHI turbo water system better with a longer steel line at least to out past the turbo . Mate , you WILL truly hate yourself if that std rubber hose dies and you didn't use a later EJ pipe that makes life 300% easier . Mine cost me 2 days and a lot of running around plus another cold evening putting it back together . And I had to pay Gee for a second hand VF10 because couldn't sent it back incomplete . And not use the VF10 BTW .
If my car had had the early EJ system it would have been up and running in possibly less than one hour and cost me two fuel line clamps and a foot and a half of EFI hose . Which would you rather do ?
One thing you won't have on a Spider engine is that stupid bulky ugly cold start air bypass valve on the engines thermostat housing .
The spiders half dumbell valve is much better but still awkward to get to .
Spider gaskets . I suggest you buy some good gasket paper and trace original gaskets on it so you can make your own if necessary . Maybe buy the smaller water log ones as they would be fiddly to make . This would save you money and time because the OE ones are ex Japan only .
Lots of fun but you want do do things properly and all at once so its reliable long term .
A .
Mine just has a piece of EFI hose joining the heater pipe and I think it returns too - can't remember but will look at mine later .
That blooldy heater pipe from the water pumps top rubber elbow is a major PITA and virtually impossible to remove with everything in place on a Spider equipt engine . If we had our time again it would have been replaced with a section of heater hose that can be bought at any parts place and being flexible is easy to remove/replace . If you really want that TB heater line you could have someone braze a small piece of tube ie cut off carby fuel line steel barb to a short section of heater hose bore pipe and splice that in at the appropriate point .
I think you need to take the Aussie world reknown mechanical approach to making things up that are cheaper and do the same or better job as genuine avail only ex Japan spares .
My poor old RX has so many little one off bits on it that its not funny , yet they could be replaced fairly quickly and easily with locally available materials .
I strongly suggest you replace things that are hard to get at when the opportunity arises , good insurance - and builds in reliability .
Sigh , I REALLY would have replaced that lower turbo water line with one thats ALL steel to at least where you can get at the thing to replace flexible rubber hose . Subaru obviously woke up to the fact that a consumable rubber hose where its almost impossible to get at its clamps let alone pull it off potentially corroded barbs is a major service PITA , AND made the early EJ IHI turbo water system better with a longer steel line at least to out past the turbo . Mate , you WILL truly hate yourself if that std rubber hose dies and you didn't use a later EJ pipe that makes life 300% easier . Mine cost me 2 days and a lot of running around plus another cold evening putting it back together . And I had to pay Gee for a second hand VF10 because couldn't sent it back incomplete . And not use the VF10 BTW .
If my car had had the early EJ system it would have been up and running in possibly less than one hour and cost me two fuel line clamps and a foot and a half of EFI hose . Which would you rather do ?
One thing you won't have on a Spider engine is that stupid bulky ugly cold start air bypass valve on the engines thermostat housing .
The spiders half dumbell valve is much better but still awkward to get to .
Spider gaskets . I suggest you buy some good gasket paper and trace original gaskets on it so you can make your own if necessary . Maybe buy the smaller water log ones as they would be fiddly to make . This would save you money and time because the OE ones are ex Japan only .
Lots of fun but you want do do things properly and all at once so its reliable long term .
A .
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sven '2'
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All this talk of spider manifold goodness is giving me a chubby.
They are fiddly to retrofit, and when I did mine it seriously did my head in.
But soooo worth it.
And finally, would ask for some (naked) pics of the fore-mentioned spider manifold of which you speak.
They are fiddly to retrofit, and when I did mine it seriously did my head in.
But soooo worth it.
I don't recall them being expensive - happy to be corrected though.discopotato03 wrote: Spider gaskets . I suggest you buy some good gasket paper and trace original gaskets on it so you can make your own if necessary . Maybe buy the smaller water log ones as they would be fiddly to make .
A .
And finally, would ask for some (naked) pics of the fore-mentioned spider manifold of which you speak.
73 Yamaha DT3 250
08 Ford BF wagon - LPG FTMFW
14 Toyota Kluger - goodness!
08 Ford BF wagon - LPG FTMFW
14 Toyota Kluger - goodness!
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steptoe
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TB warmer hoses may go back as have new ones - ex Japan and those inlet manifold gaskets - no need to make them. Found the bottom end of the RHS TB warmer hose goes to the water bypass log between left and right sides. That outlet steel pipe will get a good inspection and good contender for a brass fitting to replace it or just block the bugger up.
I thought of trying to make a water pump back pipe (or get one made up) out of copper or brass or steel but have not got access to all the gear at the moment and to pay someone will be same or more than factory $60 ,so long as still available.
A frozen throttle plate ..... I will endeavour to reproduce it all correctly if possible as hate to end up wanting to go deep into snow country in diff lockable AWD turby Vortex and find I get stuck coz I took a warm sea level dwellers short cut
We can't be too harsh on Fuji as these bits are 24 years old.
I really need to be able to drive and assess this engine before spendng too much time and money on it. If it's flogged I'd just drop my EA82 carb short in it.
Bugger, was going to tinker with timing and dizzy set up position exactness before pulling engine apart in any fashion.....
Idle Air Control Valve in a tricky spot?? What about fuel pressure regulator??
Fortunately I do not have an AC unit to deal with - happens when a Hobart resident orders a car in late winter in the 80's, took the sun roof option instead
Steve - glad it did your head - don't feel so alone now. At 4 degrees C (39F) bloody did my head in too. I seriously cannot understand why looking at this does the head in. It has like overlays of fuel lines, vacuum lines over the water log , man I still not even thought to look for the connectors to undo wiring. It has suspiciously new looking factory wiring zip ties down here - bit like the whole car really, like new.
Wassort of naked pics do you want?
I thought of trying to make a water pump back pipe (or get one made up) out of copper or brass or steel but have not got access to all the gear at the moment and to pay someone will be same or more than factory $60 ,so long as still available.
A frozen throttle plate ..... I will endeavour to reproduce it all correctly if possible as hate to end up wanting to go deep into snow country in diff lockable AWD turby Vortex
and find I get stuck coz I took a warm sea level dwellers short cut We can't be too harsh on Fuji as these bits are 24 years old.
I really need to be able to drive and assess this engine before spendng too much time and money on it. If it's flogged I'd just drop my EA82 carb short in it.
Bugger, was going to tinker with timing and dizzy set up position exactness before pulling engine apart in any fashion.....
Idle Air Control Valve in a tricky spot?? What about fuel pressure regulator??
Fortunately I do not have an AC unit to deal with - happens when a Hobart resident orders a car in late winter in the 80's, took the sun roof option instead
Steve - glad it did your head - don't feel so alone now. At 4 degrees C (39F) bloody did my head in too. I seriously cannot understand why looking at this does the head in. It has like overlays of fuel lines, vacuum lines over the water log , man I still not even thought to look for the connectors to undo wiring. It has suspiciously new looking factory wiring zip ties down here - bit like the whole car really, like new.
Wassort of naked pics do you want?
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sven '2'
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Biggest problem I had was the TPS (I reacall being specific to the SM) and the pivot point in that controls the diaphragm - because it bled air like a open window.
I had to use an oversized rod (for lack of a better term) to seal it.
Keep with it - I allowed a Saturday morning, reckon it was about a week of nights, beers, and calling in favors before the car would move...another 2 days to make it run.
Was not quite as bad as Silverbullet's carby service...though!!!
I had to use an oversized rod (for lack of a better term) to seal it.
Keep with it - I allowed a Saturday morning, reckon it was about a week of nights, beers, and calling in favors before the car would move...another 2 days to make it run.
Was not quite as bad as Silverbullet's carby service...though!!!
73 Yamaha DT3 250
08 Ford BF wagon - LPG FTMFW
14 Toyota Kluger - goodness!
08 Ford BF wagon - LPG FTMFW
14 Toyota Kluger - goodness!
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discopotato03
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Steptoe thats not an idle air control valve , just a cold start bypass to get it going when the coolant and oil is cold .
Yep the FPR is burried down in the fuel rails .
Ellie has an adjustable FPR downstream of the OE one so got it covered too .
The heated TB is only there to stop ice forming when its cold AND humid . When this happens on a warm engine it usually stalls and the conducted heat melts the ice .
My engine loom is a modified 3 ECU plug L Series one with I think extended wiring to one of the sensors - I think the computers water one .
Also Coxy under sufference replaced all the injector and sensors loom plugs with the nifty Bosch plugs that you don't need tools to remove . From memory all the sensors injectors and TPS plug . Makes fault finding quicker and easier .
A .
Yep the FPR is burried down in the fuel rails .
Ellie has an adjustable FPR downstream of the OE one so got it covered too .
The heated TB is only there to stop ice forming when its cold AND humid . When this happens on a warm engine it usually stalls and the conducted heat melts the ice .
My engine loom is a modified 3 ECU plug L Series one with I think extended wiring to one of the sensors - I think the computers water one .
Also Coxy under sufference replaced all the injector and sensors loom plugs with the nifty Bosch plugs that you don't need tools to remove . From memory all the sensors injectors and TPS plug . Makes fault finding quicker and easier .
A .
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steptoe
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Yep, OK just a cold start thing, corrected.
Cold AND humid , but ain't it humid when it is snowing? Looks like it is not gonna snow today, sun has just shown up at noon:30
I found a square spring clip from the TB connector so it appears when doing an engine wash, lost prior to me, same too with an oil cap on the wrong side under the manifold
Cold AND humid , but ain't it humid when it is snowing? Looks like it is not gonna snow today, sun has just shown up at noon:30
I found a square spring clip from the TB connector so it appears when doing an engine wash, lost prior to me, same too with an oil cap on the wrong side under the manifold
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steptoe
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OK
NEED TO REITTERATE if that's the word
Tips and tricks
Now , specific question is: is this manifold best removed as one straight off the heads with fuel lines , vac lines and electrical loom?
I think this may be better pulled off like this maybe exception is separate the throttle body with its water hoses from the spider.
The knock sensor connector is in a plick of a spot to disconnect, thank Fuji it is a squeeze and pull type plug.
Also thinking the power steer pump and alternator need to be undone and removed or pushed forward to give more working space.
Doing my head in a little less the more I look at it. Wiring loom goes out the back towards spare wheel would normally live in MY or L series
ta
NEED TO REITTERATE if that's the word
Tips and tricks
Now , specific question is: is this manifold best removed as one straight off the heads with fuel lines , vac lines and electrical loom?
I think this may be better pulled off like this maybe exception is separate the throttle body with its water hoses from the spider.
The knock sensor connector is in a plick of a spot to disconnect, thank Fuji it is a squeeze and pull type plug.
Also thinking the power steer pump and alternator need to be undone and removed or pushed forward to give more working space.
Doing my head in a little less the more I look at it. Wiring loom goes out the back towards spare wheel would normally live in MY or L series
ta
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steptoe
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Bennie, the mpfi manifold of the standard EA82 is a pleasure compared to this - they must have contracted Rubik to sort this pretzel of PCV hoses, fuel lines, vacuum lines, electrical loom on the spider. Of course was assembled prior to install in engine bay.
Think it has to be wholus bolus minus TB.
Think it has to be wholus bolus minus TB.