hi guys, new to the forum looking for some advice.
currently i'm driving a 07 clubsport r8, looking to upgrade shortly but
can say i'm not totally pleased with the options etc.. available in the
hsv range now days, especially for the dollars being asked.
have been looking around and i came across a new liberty gt in a dealers yard in qld and really liked what i found. to me it was a good price with a lot of standard features that are only options in other makes.
power wise if i take it to MRT and get them to look at it, will i get the same kind of performance out of it that i have in my clubby ?
clubby, liberty ???
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griffiths51
- Junior Member
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 11:06 am
- Location: nsw
The liberty will s#@t all over the cubby!
But this is a subaru forum so of coarse we are biased:mrgreen:
As for performance mods you would be better to post on the rs liberty club forum.
I am sure mrt can get lots of v8 killing power but at what cost to reliability?
If what you want is a safe, quick well finished car with awd grip the liberty is the way to go.
If you want to do burnouts but a hsv:twisted:
They are very different cars and both will outperform each other in different aspects.
But this is a subaru forum so of coarse we are biased:mrgreen:
As for performance mods you would be better to post on the rs liberty club forum.
I am sure mrt can get lots of v8 killing power but at what cost to reliability?
If what you want is a safe, quick well finished car with awd grip the liberty is the way to go.
If you want to do burnouts but a hsv:twisted:
They are very different cars and both will outperform each other in different aspects.
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griffiths51
- Junior Member
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 11:06 am
- Location: nsw
all that cash for not much is what is turning me away from hsv. MRT seem to have a good package for the liberty which they put into the car that did the tuner shootout in motor magazine. tune, exhaust, brakes and suspension for $8600.00 i think it was.
The drivers were all impressed with the performance of the car, MRT seem quiet adamant that they won't tune a car beyond the limitations of any componetry with out upgrading it.
HSV still seem a bit like dinosaurs, huge power on demand but still they lack that bit of fine tuning, there still a harsh commodore.
To me the liberty is a luxury car with sports performance, if that perfromance meets the performance level of my clubby then i'm gonna get one !!!!
The drivers were all impressed with the performance of the car, MRT seem quiet adamant that they won't tune a car beyond the limitations of any componetry with out upgrading it.
HSV still seem a bit like dinosaurs, huge power on demand but still they lack that bit of fine tuning, there still a harsh commodore.
To me the liberty is a luxury car with sports performance, if that perfromance meets the performance level of my clubby then i'm gonna get one !!!!
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bobbyjimmy
- Junior Member
- Posts: 273
- Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:54 pm
- Location: ACT
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sven '2'
- General Member
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- Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:45 pm
- Location: Adelaide, South Australia
or even rslcbobbyjimmy wrote:Do not take the car to MRT - go on Rexnet, Liberty.asn.au, subyclub.com etc etc and do a search for MRT and see what most people say about them - they are WAY, WAY, WAY, overpriced.
Where in NSW are you?
A lot of interstate people are coming over to Adelaide for the S&J experience - great value and top quality work.
73 Yamaha DT3 250
08 Ford BF wagon - LPG FTMFW
14 Toyota Kluger - goodness!
08 Ford BF wagon - LPG FTMFW
14 Toyota Kluger - goodness!
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discopotato03
- Senior Member
- Posts: 2134
- Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 9:29 am
- Location: Sydney
Horses for courses and depends what you drive like and your expectations .
Most that like big engined cars like that instant drive it in any gear at low revs torque . I don't think anything sold here by Subaru can really offer well tuned 5.7 L performance in a similar kind of rev range .
Invariably performance people find that you can only get so far without AWD and then you can't easily get any more to the ground . Some like hanging the tail out and doing the big lurid power slides but the tyre bills and hoon fines get boring really quickly .
AWD changes a lot of that but don't just assume that any old AWD car is handling nirvana . Some are good and some are just so so and its because theres more to performance handling than driving all four . The suspension geometry and weight distribution has to be good as well and thats where many production cars are just so .
Where AWD feels good is that it gives the impression of being very sure footed and it does increase the safety margine but only at the same speeds . If the speeds rise the safety level reduces and if you lose it at higher speeds then the connection rates are higher too .
People used to say that AWD made average drivers look like good ones but I think it just made the foolish ones push harder looking for its limits .
The limits in AWD cars will vary and the homologation specials like STis and Evos do it pretty well .
Turbo performance is good but not the same as a large capcity V8 because they don't have the cubic inches to muscle around at low revs .
They don't have tall gearing especially in the lower gears because they don't have the torque to pull them with . The other thing is that turbo torque is anything but linear and the on off throttle performance hinges around how closely turbo response follows throttle response . Generally its never brilliant because its difficult to keep turbo revs up with part throttle driving meaning no instant torque at lowish engine revs .
I don't know what header systems the late Subarus are using here but if its not a twin scroll system its junk IMO . Single scroll turbos particularly on flat fours struggle to work over a wide engine speed range , the manufacturer either sizes the turbo small for early torque delivery which chokes off pretty quickly or uses a larger dryer knowing that it won't boost down low but will make the numbers at higher revs .
Twin scroll turbo systems go a long way towards optimising the on and off boost performance which is important with you typical lowish compression ratio turbo engine . Off boost torque with a low CR two literish engine in a 1500 plus Kg car can be a bit unexciting and they need all the tech smarts available to make them feel good to drive .
Other than the performance aspects I think the Japanese make better cars than the locals do particularly with fit and finish . They often fit more little niceties and creature comforts that the locals do and have been doing so for several decades .
To round off Subaru and others can offer you greater longevity and much better fuel consumption than a locally produced V8 taxi can . They don't tend to devaluate as quickly and I think offer a bit more refinement .
Subaru is selling to a much larger market than Holden is and that means greater scrutiny and the expectation that their products will be competitive with others in the international market place .
And lastly the performance aspect . Take it from someone who been down the try to re engineer a cars driveline road .
Buy something thats pretty close to what you want performance wise in std trim . Its VERY easy to go chasing more performance in turbo cars and lose the bottom end where you drive it all the time performance .
It is virtually impossible to make big increases in turbo engine performance without increasing the engines state of tune . To make more power you have get more air in and exhaust out and when you increase the size of all the passages to achieve it the gas speeds are all lower at low engine speeds which makes our four cycle piston pump operate less efficiently . When you lose efficiency you lose torque and have to rev the engine higher to make the vehicle go . Then the engine becomes peaky and you have to constantly buz the engine up which is tiresome and jerky - not smooth and refined .
My opinions only so your call .
A .
Most that like big engined cars like that instant drive it in any gear at low revs torque . I don't think anything sold here by Subaru can really offer well tuned 5.7 L performance in a similar kind of rev range .
Invariably performance people find that you can only get so far without AWD and then you can't easily get any more to the ground . Some like hanging the tail out and doing the big lurid power slides but the tyre bills and hoon fines get boring really quickly .
AWD changes a lot of that but don't just assume that any old AWD car is handling nirvana . Some are good and some are just so so and its because theres more to performance handling than driving all four . The suspension geometry and weight distribution has to be good as well and thats where many production cars are just so .
Where AWD feels good is that it gives the impression of being very sure footed and it does increase the safety margine but only at the same speeds . If the speeds rise the safety level reduces and if you lose it at higher speeds then the connection rates are higher too .
People used to say that AWD made average drivers look like good ones but I think it just made the foolish ones push harder looking for its limits .
The limits in AWD cars will vary and the homologation specials like STis and Evos do it pretty well .
Turbo performance is good but not the same as a large capcity V8 because they don't have the cubic inches to muscle around at low revs .
They don't have tall gearing especially in the lower gears because they don't have the torque to pull them with . The other thing is that turbo torque is anything but linear and the on off throttle performance hinges around how closely turbo response follows throttle response . Generally its never brilliant because its difficult to keep turbo revs up with part throttle driving meaning no instant torque at lowish engine revs .
I don't know what header systems the late Subarus are using here but if its not a twin scroll system its junk IMO . Single scroll turbos particularly on flat fours struggle to work over a wide engine speed range , the manufacturer either sizes the turbo small for early torque delivery which chokes off pretty quickly or uses a larger dryer knowing that it won't boost down low but will make the numbers at higher revs .
Twin scroll turbo systems go a long way towards optimising the on and off boost performance which is important with you typical lowish compression ratio turbo engine . Off boost torque with a low CR two literish engine in a 1500 plus Kg car can be a bit unexciting and they need all the tech smarts available to make them feel good to drive .
Other than the performance aspects I think the Japanese make better cars than the locals do particularly with fit and finish . They often fit more little niceties and creature comforts that the locals do and have been doing so for several decades .
To round off Subaru and others can offer you greater longevity and much better fuel consumption than a locally produced V8 taxi can . They don't tend to devaluate as quickly and I think offer a bit more refinement .
Subaru is selling to a much larger market than Holden is and that means greater scrutiny and the expectation that their products will be competitive with others in the international market place .
And lastly the performance aspect . Take it from someone who been down the try to re engineer a cars driveline road .
Buy something thats pretty close to what you want performance wise in std trim . Its VERY easy to go chasing more performance in turbo cars and lose the bottom end where you drive it all the time performance .
It is virtually impossible to make big increases in turbo engine performance without increasing the engines state of tune . To make more power you have get more air in and exhaust out and when you increase the size of all the passages to achieve it the gas speeds are all lower at low engine speeds which makes our four cycle piston pump operate less efficiently . When you lose efficiency you lose torque and have to rev the engine higher to make the vehicle go . Then the engine becomes peaky and you have to constantly buz the engine up which is tiresome and jerky - not smooth and refined .
My opinions only so your call .
A .
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griffiths51
- Junior Member
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 11:06 am
- Location: nsw
thanks for all the info guys, the more i look into it the more i'm considering the liberty. I love the br utal punch of the clubby, i don't like the lack of head room i have in a " large family car ". The finish and option's well...... anyway cheers to all !!!
thanks also for the heads up with MRT, i will check out the other options you've listed. when it comes to mods we've nether done anything to drastic, mainly just intake, tune and exhaust, the big three !! had it done to the clubby by walkinshaw performance so would still look at it getting a liberty done aswell, i guess it's true when they say some people nether grow up !
got a friend here in town that has a new sti who got his work done in melb, have chase him up and see who it was.
Central NSW by the way, out in the middle of nowhere.
thanks also for the heads up with MRT, i will check out the other options you've listed. when it comes to mods we've nether done anything to drastic, mainly just intake, tune and exhaust, the big three !! had it done to the clubby by walkinshaw performance so would still look at it getting a liberty done aswell, i guess it's true when they say some people nether grow up !
got a friend here in town that has a new sti who got his work done in melb, have chase him up and see who it was.
Central NSW by the way, out in the middle of nowhere.
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bobbyjimmy
- Junior Member
- Posts: 273
- Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:54 pm
- Location: ACT
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griffiths51
- Junior Member
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 11:06 am
- Location: nsw
Cobar NSW.
Thanks for that guys, will get onto those guys and get some prices. The only upside for us to go with MRT is that they also will handle the purchase of the vehicle and then put the cost of the mods on-top of the vehicle price. And thats handy when it comes to getting finance.
But if there over the top with there pricing then we will give them the flick.
Maybe one of the other tuners might have the same kind of purchase system aswell, i will definetely look into it anyway.
Cheers
Thanks for that guys, will get onto those guys and get some prices. The only upside for us to go with MRT is that they also will handle the purchase of the vehicle and then put the cost of the mods on-top of the vehicle price. And thats handy when it comes to getting finance.
But if there over the top with there pricing then we will give them the flick.
Maybe one of the other tuners might have the same kind of purchase system aswell, i will definetely look into it anyway.
Cheers
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bobbyjimmy
- Junior Member
- Posts: 273
- Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:54 pm
- Location: ACT
That IS the middle of nowhere...
I just found this while looking at a different forum about MRT
http://forum.liberty.asn.au/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=11178
I just found this while looking at a different forum about MRT
http://forum.liberty.asn.au/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=11178