Doing the heads on an EA81

[Silverbullet]

any marks on the piston concerned? Too late to check the valves. If you hold crank by tool and hand try push or tap the piston to see if is...um....broken? You do have to suspect if something is out enough for you to see by eye

I couldn't see it by eye, I put the edge of a ruler across the two cylinders, when #1 came up to the top you could feel it tap the ruler but no more, when #3 (dodgy one) came up it pushed the ruler away from the block by about 1/4mm, maybe more or less I didn't check with feeler gauge in the dark. As far as I could tell there are no marks on the piston, but it is completely caked in carbon making it hard to tell.

The more I think about it the more I think I'm just hoping against the inevitable I'm officially looking for another engine now, or a whole parts car (there was a working wagon around christmas for $400, cursing I didn't buy it then )
spike has also just told me he's got an EA82 lying around But I'm not sure if I could put that in the car let alone drive it (still on P's)

We'll see what the cylinder head shop says, if there was something badly wrong then I will take a chance that the engine is ok, but if there's nothing remarkable I'll tell them don't bother rebuilding them and just get another engine. Will be able to take the old one apart then and do an autopsy

[El_Freddo]

I couldn't see it by eye, I put the edge of a ruler across the two cylinders, when #1 came up to the top you could feel it tap the ruler but no more, when #3 (dodgy one) came up it pushed the ruler away from the block by about 1/4mm, maybe more or less I didn't check with feeler gauge in the dark. As far as I could tell there are no marks on the piston, but it is completely caked in carbon making it hard to tell.

I'd clear off the carbon and have another go at it. If its so badly caked in carbon that you can't see the top of the piston and it is the carbon that is protruding enough to push the ruler you need to clean this off and have another go to get an accurate gauge of what's happening.

Cheers

Bennie

[sven '2']

Keep away from an EA82 conversion - the 81s are a better, more reliable motor (JMO though) and why not keep it simple?

Is also illegal in SA believe it or not...

And anyways, you have learnt so much in the past week on 81s!!

The cost of doing the heads on a dud bottom end are not worth it - esp when you can buy a complete car as you mentioned for $400

Try the carbon removal as suggested.

[Silverbullet]

The head shop called today (left a message) and said the subaru heads are ready to pickup What happened to reporting what they found and taking 2 weeks about it? I can only think that there was nothing wrong with them so they didn't do any work. If that's the case then the knock is inside the engine = I need another one.

Sending a few emails out this week, subawreck want $850 trade in for a late model engine Bit steep since the car is almost worthless WITH an engine...

Going to call other yards as soon as I can on this.

[Silverbullet]

Just rang the shop back, they said they did a vacuum test and valves were sealing nicely. They also faced the heads. I asked if there was anything wrong at all and he said nope So that's $200 for absolutely nothing

Going back to when I said one piston was coming out further than the other, I just went and looked again and measured with a feeler gauge under the straight edge against the block. Results are:
Cyl #1 gap between straight edge and block at top of stroke: .005" or .127mm
Cyl #3 gap: .007" or .178mm

I also looked at cleaning the carbon off but that stuff is not going to come off easily. Will probably need more carby cleaner? A bit hesitant at spraying anything in the cylinder, but if the engine is toast then theres no point in worrying.

Just called about every wreckers yard in town too, nothing below $450 except U-pullit Elizabeth, $280 for a bare engine and said they've got a few old subies in. Best hope yet...well only hope actually

[sven '2']

Rising Sun?

Ask if Steve has any lying about that suit your needs / budget.

[sven '2']

Also try Phizinza (member on here)

He has (had?) a large supply of EA stuff

[littlewhiteute]

I also looked at cleaning the carbon off but that stuff is not going to come off easily. Will probably need more carby cleaner? A bit hesitant at spraying anything in the cylinder, but if the engine is toast then theres no point in worrying.

I wouldn't clean off the carbon around the piston edge, you can clean the majority of the piston crown but leave about 1/4 inch around the outside.

It acts as a seal as well, if you clean it all off, it will burn oil for sure.

I'd say you have excessive clearance on NO.3 bigend bearing, hence your lower deck height of .007 versus .005 for NO.1.

This will be your knock.

[El_Freddo]

I'd say you have excessive clearance on NO.3 bigend bearing, hence your lower deck height of .007 versus .005 for NO.1.

This will be your knock.

If thats the case Silverbullet - have you thought about a rebuild? Do a cam regrind if you want at the same time, Steptoe should be able to give you some specs that work well for the regrind.

If you're going to spend some money on another unknown engine, why not scrape the extra needed for a rebuild?

Cheers

Bennie

[Silverbullet]

El Freddo, talking about it in the last half hour a rebuild is looking like the best option, then the money spent on the heads won't be wasted. Plus going to elizabeth from where we are, removing an engine in a car yard and driving it back is one heck of an undertaking not to mention the engine is of unknown origin and condition. Rebuild it is.

littlewhiteute, I was just saying to dad it might be the bearings (not that I would know but I thought a bent rod would mean a shorter stroke not longer like this has). Thankyou for giving me a bit of hope that I may not have to buy a new rod

So this is no longer about rebuilding heads, it's about rebuilding an engine. New thread? A few questions already about rebuilding an engine; can you replace bearings/piston rings etc in just one cylinder or do you have to do them all for uneven wear reasons? And can you replace those without splitting the block? The book says you can but I can't see how you would remove the big end cap whilst the block is intact.

Funny isn't it how rebuilding a carb over the weekend has turned into rebuilding the cylinder heads, and now rebuilding the whole engine just because I put the carb back on at night with low lighting

[El_Freddo]

Yeah. I'd go for a set of all four pistons and rings, its best practise to replace all units and not just one. That said I've known it to be done - dad's '29 chev has some piston slap in one cylinder as they could only get 5 new pistons so they used the best of the ones they had.

That said the old 6 cylinder doesn't rev anywhere nearly as hard as an EA81 would, plus it doesn't get driven daily...

I would look at replacing the bottom end bearings while you're doing the big ends. Have the crankshaft checked for wear as you'll probably have to run oversized bearings to make up for the slop in that one cylinder.

What you'll be up for, excluding prices as you'll have to find out what these are:

Crankshaft inspection/grinding
New bottom end and big end bearings
Connecting rod inspection.
Camshaft inspection and re-grind to different speck if you want a bit more poke from the old gigga
Honing/boring of the cylinders
New piston heads to match the honing/boring of the cylinders
New piston rings to match the new piston heads
Heads are done so no need to worry about these
Gasket kit - probably a good time to look in the US and wait for it to arrive.
Might as well overhaul/replace the oil pump to look after your investment in time and money.

Or:

Go an EJ conversion... You won't look back

Cheers

Bennie

[littlewhiteute]

Silverbullet,

If you have a think about what's happening with cylinder 3, a heavily worn bigend bearing will not allow the piston to travel to true TDC or true BDC when turning by hand, simply because the piston speed is so slow.

It will have a measurable shorter stroke, you can put the piston at BDC and see if you can push it down by a further .002, I'd say by your difference at TDC between 1 and 3 of .002, you will find an extra .002 at BDC.

Complete opposite when the motor is running, the piston will travel further past "true" TDC and BDC giving you a stroke increase of .004.

Probably not enough for piston to head contact but most certainly a big end knock.

[Silverbullet]

Silverbullet,

If you have a think about what's happening with cylinder 3, a heavily worn bigend bearing will not allow the piston to travel to true TDC or true BDC when turning by hand, simply because the piston speed is so slow.

It will have a measurable shorter stroke, you can put the piston at BDC and see if you can push it down by a further .002, I'd say by your difference at TDC between 1 and 3 of .002, you will find an extra .002 at BDC.

Makes sense but you may have mis-read; piston 3 has a longer stroke than #1 by .002 not shorter. Whatever is the case it's getting rebuilt anyway.

El Freddo do I really need to do all that? eg camshaft inspection/grinding, crankshaft inspection/grinding, honing of cylinders etc. I would have thought you'd need that if you were rebuilding because of engine being worn out, but this one isn't. Couldn't I just get standard pistons and rings and not get the bores honed?

All that stuff sounds expensive

[littlewhiteute]

Makes sense but you may have mis-read; piston 3 has a longer stroke than #1 by .002 not shorter. Whatever is the case it's getting rebuilt anyway.

El Freddo do I really need to do all that? eg camshaft inspection/grinding, crankshaft inspection/grinding, honing of cylinders etc. I would have thought you'd need that if you were rebuilding because of engine being worn out, but this one isn't. Couldn't I just get standard pistons and rings and not get the bores honed?

All that stuff sounds expensive

Ah yes, my mistake, I have reread.

You have positive deck height at TDC.

So NO.1 could be the culprit with the worn bigend.

Try what I have mentioned at BDC on NO.1.

[sven '2']

Or:

Go an EJ conversion... You won't look back

Bennie

Illegal in SA unfortunately...

[El_Freddo]

Illegal in SA unfortunately...

You can't even get an engineering certificate for the modification??

Cheers

Bennie

[sven '2']

Nope.

Rule with engine swaps in SA is that has to be from a AUDM variant.

For example...

EA82T in L-Series wagon (with discs all round) is ok because the RX was out here.

EJ20T into a GX Lib is ok because the RS was out here.

V8 Holden into V6 body is ok too, well because there 2.8M of them.

Even an EA81T is no good into a Brumby as there were no EA81Ts sold in the AUDM.

Trust me, spent A LOT of time over the years on this salivating over the swaps the eastern seaboard do all legal like.

[steptoe]

OK if the engine rebuild is on I say that is the way I think - why shell out almost same coin on used when you can learn how to rebuild your own baby. While block is still in get those head stus out if machine shop says so in case you do a rebore. A local sub specialist used to do just a re ring on old EA81's , head job and ready for more action. NEVER seen screwed bores on EA's myself, I just go whole hog anyway , new pistons etc. Never needed more than a linish on a crank. Had one that was beyond machining too !

That tool to get the stus out Stanley stu remover about 30 bucks from Autopro stores

[Green_eyed_liberty]

sorry to be a little off topic. what are the benefits of re-doing your heads?

i got some brand new heads/valves/springs etc that has been sitting in the cupboard for decades

[Silverbullet]

OK if the engine rebuild is on I say that is the way I think - why shell out almost same coin on used when you can learn how to rebuild your own baby. While block is still in get those head stus out if machine shop says so in case you do a rebore. A local sub specialist used to do just a re ring on old EA81's , head job and ready for more action. NEVER seen screwed bores on EA's myself, I just go whole hog anyway , new pistons etc. Never needed more than a linish on a crank. Had one that was beyond machining too !

That tool to get the stus out Stanley stu remover about 30 bucks from Autopro stores

Stud removal tool sounds interesting I'll have a look for one, but what if the stud snaps, am I buggered?
I was reading a bit about re-bores and it seems you only need to if the bore is worn out, but on my bores you can still see the cross-hatching. Or is a re-bore and hone just part of the process for rebuilding any engine? And a related question, if you re-ring the pistons does the bore need to be honed for the new rings?
Just sending the block off the be bored and honed sounds like a lot of cash I can't spend unless I really have to

Green eyed liberty, I sent the heads off because I thought (more like hoping) that the engine knock was coming from the heads, but it wasn't so now it's an engine rebuild. It wasn't a complete waste since I'll be using the heads, not like if I just got another engine.