Whirring input shaft, should i worry?

rebuilder · Post by **rebuilder** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:34 pm

My 2000 outback has had its heart rebuilt about 2 montsh ago, teh gearbox allways made a slight whirring noise whenever the clutch was released.
If you are sitting still, in neautral and release the clutch, the whirring starts.
So its deffinately the input shaft, right?
the onyl other thing i could think of is the spigot bearing (the one in the flywheel)
Im convinced its the gearbox input bearings, so here are my questions.
1. Are the gearbox bearings affected by gearbox oil, and if so could changing the GB oil fix the problem.
2. If the problem is unfixable with an oil change, can a home mechanic perform such bearing changes on his own, or do i have to pay the unpayable $2000 for rebuild.

FYI, when i took the engine out last, i noticed the spigot shaft could be wobbled left and right a bit, i wouldve thought this should be solid centred like a rock.

Cheers

Post by **Alex** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:30 am

thrust bearing is what will be making that noise(yes the spigot bearing or whatever!)

swap her out.

alex

AndrewT · Post by **AndrewT** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:22 am

The thrust bearing and spigot bearing are two separate things.
The thrust bearing is the big one that goes on the end of the clutch fork and against the clutch springs.
The spigot bearing is the little one that press-fits into the middle of the flywheel.

Either one of them could be responsible for the noise. It's best practice to replace these type of inexpensive things when a good opportunity like having the engine out for a rebuild presents itself but I guess in your case it wasn't done. Bit of a bugger to have to separate the engine and gearbox again, but I'd say replacing both of these bearings will probably resolve the problem.

**note - I assume these bearings both exist in a 2000 Outback....maybe it's one of those funky "dual mass" flywheel arrangements, I'm not sure of the particulars with those!

littlewhiteute · Post by **littlewhiteute** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:12 pm

Clutch pedal out is not spigot bearing.

Clutch pedal out means the engine is connected to the trans, input shaft is connected to crank, spigot bearing will NOT be freewheeling, only rotating with the crank.

Could also be dual mass flywheel rattle.

More than likely input shaft or cluster shaft bearing.

rebuilder · Post by **rebuilder** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:13 pm

thanks littlewhiteute, im not familiar with this term dual mass flywheel, but i have heard around town that it sucks the big one!
i would be happy if its the flywheel, so i dont have to take apart an otherwise perfect non crunching gearbox, tell me more!!
TELL ME MORE TELL ME MORE, WAS IT LOVE AT FIRST SIGHT!!
Also little bit of trivia,
Isn't "Thrust bearing" the term used to define the main bearing for the crankshaft, that also incorporates the thrust washer, or did someone make up their on terminology!!
I allways thought thrust bearing was the clutch release bearing but i hear more commonly its referred to as the Throwout bearing, or Release bearing.

rebuilder · Post by **rebuilder** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:18 pm

nah jsut saw an animation of that POS on youtube, and mines just a standard good ol solid flywheel.
Looks liek im taking the gearbox out for rebuild:(
SO my question is, has anyone of you ever done any work on one of these gearboxes.
Ive never done transmission work, jsut lots of engine rebuilds. Should i attempt it, and where the hell do i get parts without being price raped like an everyday civilian.

AndrewT · Post by **AndrewT** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:15 pm

rebuilding gearbox now??
Replace spigot bearing and thrust bearing and rule them out first. They are like 20 bucks combined.

rebuilder · Post by **rebuilder** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:15 am

but why would it be the thrust bear, if it happens when i release the cluthc pedal?
think about whats happening there, the bearing is letter go of its force on teh clutch springs on the pressure plate. a noisy thrust bearing is heard when you push the clutch.
i guess spigot bearing is possibly borked

CBF taking the engine out for a 3rd time in a month. haha
anyone know if gearbox bearings run in grease or oil.

GOD · Post by **GOD** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:17 am

There are lots of ways for bearings to fail. My wagon's thrust bearing is noisy when the clutch pedal is released. Like Andrew said, start with the small, cheap, obvious things.

Dane.

rebuilder · Post by **rebuilder** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:48 am

but its not noisey when depressed (cluthc to the floor) and i allready checked the release bearing wheni had the engine out last, adn it had been replaced with a new clutch kit about 5000 ks ago!!
So i guess theres no one on here with knowledge of the gearbox inner, due to the lack of responses:(

Post by **TOONGA** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:55 am

patience is a virtue, I've been told but it seems to be lost on the younger generation.

As stated in previous posts the throw out bearing or the spigot bearing is the most likely culprit in this scenario.

But if you want information on splitting a box and rebuilding it look around in here forumdisplay.php?f=44

and google a FSM for your model

TOONGA

rebuilder · Post by **rebuilder** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:52 am

i think whoever told anyone that a spigot bearing rotates when the spigot shaft rotates, need to be taught what is turning.
The flywheel turns and when the clutch is released (pedal let out) the spigot shaft starts to turn at the same speed as the flywheel, meaning the spigot bearing is no longer turning (within the flyywheel) its moving at the same rpm as the flywheel and spigot shaft. so its no longer a spining bearing its completely still in relation to what it is pressed into.
Therefore, the spigot bearing would make noise when pedal is pressed to floor (also known as depressed) if it was faulty.
Throwout bearing is similar, the only time it is ever turning, is when u press the clutch pedal, as it is now pressed up against the pressure plate springs. teh throwout bearing runs along a stationary greased up sleeve attached to the gearbox, and therotating part pushes the spring fingers.
Im shaking a bit czo i dont like it when a group of people think im wrong, when im not
pardon my ignorance, whats an FSM, some workshop manual?
thanks heaps for the link tho

Post by **TOONGA** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:21 am

Factory Service Manual

try this one

http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/s ... egacy_FSM/

So what does a spigot bearing do when the spigot shaft isn't turning ?

When I replaced my clutch not too long ago the only thing that wasn't replaced was the spigot bearing, as we didn't have one and guess where the noise is coming from now.

after todays events on the board thats about as cheeky as I'm getting.

I fear the ban hammer

TOONGA

rebuilder · Post by **rebuilder** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:43 am

not hats orite, i think ur missunderstanding the problem im having.
when the spiigot shaft isnt turning, and the flywheel is turning, the spigot bearing is owrking hard.
im not having a problem when i push the clutch, im having teh problem when i let it go.
honestly, think a bit more baout it, then laugh with me when u realise how this copmplicated peice of machinery fools everyone.
the spigot bearing only plays a role when the clutch pedal is pushed. as does the throwout bearing
the hoise you experienced would have been when u push the pedal

rebuilder · Post by **rebuilder** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:52 am

TOONGA!
that is awesome, but im too scared to open the file.
recently bought windows 7 and it cost me 300 bucks (first peice of legitimate microsoft software ive ever bought) and im terrified of opening anything which warns me not to open it hahah!!
i knwo that makes me sound liek a noob, but when u have had to reformat ur computer as many times as me due to spyware and virus infection, ud understand. haha
but alas, u have inspired me to rip the poxy thing out and just order the input bearings from CBC!!

littlewhiteute · Post by **littlewhiteute** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:01 am

rebuilder wrote:but its not noisey when depressed (cluthc to the floor) and i allready checked the release bearing wheni had the engine out last, adn it had been replaced with a new clutch kit about 5000 ks ago!!
So i guess theres no one on here with knowledge of the gearbox inner, due to the lack of responses:(

Solid flywheel, clutch pedal out and whirring noise.

Noise is in gearbox, end of discussion.

Post by **TOONGA** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:23 am

rebuilder wrote:TOONGA!
that is awesome, but im too scared to open the file.
recently bought windows 7 and it cost me 300 bucks (first peice of legitimate microsoft software ive ever bought) and im terrified of opening anything which warns me not to open it hahah!!
i knwo that makes me sound liek a noob, but when u have had to reformat ur computer as many times as me due to spyware and virus infection, ud understand. haha
but alas, u have inspired me to rip the poxy thing out and just order the input bearings from CBC!!

1. install proper anti virus software and Stop going to sites with neked peops then you won't have spyware /viruses.

2. I have that file on my computer and it hasn't given me spyware or viruses just valid information

3. good luck with the bearings

TOONGA

rebuilder · Post by **rebuilder** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:08 am

orite sweet thanks toonga, ill stop bein a bitch and DL it!
haha how did u know about my neked peeps?
:P

Post by **TOONGA** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:34 pm

3 things your age, your avatar and the fact that you had to re-install your computer.

I would recommend you use AVG free or a comparable antivirus, spybot search and destroy or super anti spyware

TOONGA

AndrewT · Post by **AndrewT** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:21 pm

littlewhiteute wrote:Solid flywheel, clutch pedal out and whirring noise.

Noise is in gearbox, end of discussion.

I've had this same problem years ago in two different cars. Both times it was either the spigot or thrust bearing (I replaced them as a set both times) as the noise went after replacing them. Whether the bearings are "playing a role" or not doesn't really come into it. Just because they aren't under load doesn't mean they can't make noise. They are still spinning around after all. In fact in some situations if there is some wear or play in bearings wouldn't it make sense that they might make noise by rattling when not under load? As GOD said, there are many ways a bearing can fail.

It's next to no cost and an incredibly simple job to do. Whether you think it's the problem or not, just replace them to find out. I hope it doesn't turn out to be gearbox related, but if it does you haven't really lost much by doing this first.

By all means, do a complete rebuild on your gearbox at huge effort and expense before trying the easy/cheap things first....but you might be considered insane if you ever have yourself tested

Glad you've been inspired by Toonga anyways, let us know how it goes!