wax filled intercooler

wrxer · Post by **wrxer** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:00 pm

i got flamed regards an article i read about using the thermal mass of a wax filled intercooler to control full boost intake temps in street cars. the guy is julian edgar and i found the link to his original article.

http://autospeed.com.au/A_110772/cms/article.html

he has heaps of other stuff on that site, try intercooler on the search and will give a test on 10 wrx intercoolers including the liberty water cooler.
try search wrx for intake, intercooler, exhaust mods for those with the turbo subaru

spike · Post by **spike** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:39 pm

WTF!!! so he plans to run the car with it???
youd have to prime the intercooler to get the wax melted to move
And thermal mass doesnt matter in any intercooler (on the liquid side of it)
wev'e made some water to air intercoolers and i must admit they are great a bit more efficient, allow less lag, and can change mounting.

wrxer · Post by **wrxer** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:06 am

you dont use a pump or front radiator, just the intercooler in a box full of wax, or maybe the water intercooler ex-liberty sealed and filled with wax.
on boost temps above 50c (pre intercooler) will begin to melt the wax but the thermal mass of the solid wax will absorb the heat therefore cooling the (post intercooler) air temps to 50c. off boost temps below 50c will solidify the wax and get it ready to absorb more air temps next time at boost

spike · Post by **spike** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:18 am

honestly, my engineering back ground, it probably wont work, sorry.
the way to do it.
it would force wax into the intake system, the heat wouldnt dissipate first few seconds would be nice and cool but it would just stay hot, you would have to idle for ages to cool the wax and dissipate heat from the box of wax

d_generate · Post by **d_generate** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:24 am

Ever had a play with wax? It takes an eternity to cool down, try making a fat candle.

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:43 am

It does work.

The idea is that it absorbs lot of heat in the transition between solid and liquid phases, without gaining in temperature, so it is all about thermal mass and latent heat.

Similar to water, in the fact that as you heat up ice, its temperature rises at a steady rate, until it reaches 0deg and then as it melts, the temperature stays at 0deg, even though you are still heating it.

Its not as effective as a pumped water system, but its more effective than having a water filled intercooler that isnt pumping.

Post by **TOONGA** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:53 am

Having "played" with many types of wax as a jeweller nothing annoyed me more than waiting for the wax injector to get to heat, and then that ridiculously small window you had with the "molten" wax before it cooled and was unusable and had to be re-cycled back into the injector.

there are waxes (casting wax) out there which are almost plastic when solid and have a viscosity of transmission oil when liquid

this would work and even better in climates with a very high to very low temperature range and if you got a leak in your intercooler system it would seal itself

TOONGA

AndrewT · Post by **AndrewT** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:45 pm

Maybe Subaru should do this from factory. I think snake-oil might work even better.

Post by **Alex** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:53 pm

or maybe lard would work okay

dibs · Post by **dibs** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:20 pm

mite try one on the rex i got a spair water to air intercooler

dibs

spike · Post by **spike** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:28 pm

filling a water to air intercooler with wax may work but i just cant see this idea of a wax filled one working, just not enough gain

wrxer · Post by **wrxer** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:44 pm

there are a few criteria for this to work, if you read the article. the biggest hurdle perhaps for a subaru is underbonnet temps of less than 50c, measured where the intercooler will sit. i havent measured temps on mine, but i reckon it would be hotter than 50. and of course the more boost and the hotter the after turbo temps are, the bigger the gains by reducing air temps to 50.
the idea is that you are off boost often enough to keep the wax solid, and not on boost enough to completely melt the wax. like the ice block in the drink, the drink will be cold while there is ice left. it doesnt matter how much you heat it, if there is ice left the water will be cold

i havent tried this project, i dont know how well it works or doesnt work, but this guy is way smarter than me, and i can see the logic in his thinking. a yahoo search brings up stull like:

Edgar Julian

Books By Julian Edgar

High Performance Electronic Projects For Cars
This book is a definite must-have if you are building and fitting any of the kits below. Published by Silicon Chip Magazine, it shows in full colour, all projects, in addition to chapters on how engine management works, DIY modifications, and more

21st Century Performance SORRY NOW OF PRINT
Is the first high performance book that covers current automotive technology - how it all works and how to modify it for best results. Many of the modifications are of the practical, do-it-your selfer type

Julian Edgar

A secondary school teacher before becoming interested in cars, Julian Edgar has written more than 600 magazine articles on car modification. He has contributed to Street Machine, Fast Fours & Rotaries, Sport Compact Car, Turbo and Hi Tech Performance, Fast Car and many other magazines around the world. He was the founding editor of Zoom, and currently edits the Web magazine AutoSpeed. This book draws on the wealth of experience that he has gained both in modifying his own cars and also visiting the best workshops in the country.

interesting write up on steering angles and geometery:(is about recumbent bikes but is still relevant)
http://www.speedpedal.com.au/cms/A_1...-/article.html

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:10 pm

spike wrote:filling a water to air intercooler with wax may work but i just cant see this idea of a wax filled one working

WTF! We are talking about filling a water to air intercooler with wax.

Ranked from most effective to least effective.

1. Water to air intercooler filled with water, with circulating pump and radiator.

2. Water to air intercooler filled with wax, no pump or radiator

3. Water to air intercooler filled with water, no pump or radiator

4. Water to air intercooler empty.

As you can see, it is a viable alternative if you cant mount a pump or a radiator for your water to air intercooler

AndrewT · Post by **AndrewT** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:11 pm

If you can't mount a WAIC pump and radiator to your car then you must not have a Subaru, or are severely retarded.

dibs · Post by **dibs** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:45 pm

wely ima nod reterted or nufin and do own a subaru. and im not doin nufin to it its close to stock and staying that ways.
now if i still had the ruffy . it had a turbo 1800 i mite consider it but then it did have a water to air intercooler .and seamed to work ok.

il just stick to the new project

dibs

AndrewT · Post by **AndrewT** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:50 pm

no that's right, you wouldn't be converting to a WAIC either way.
But if you were, putting wax in it is not the solution, fitting the pump and radiator is easy!

spike · Post by **spike** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:51 pm

it would work on the heat transfer ability of the wax, with a pump and radiator

wrxer · Post by **wrxer** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:40 pm

suparoo, i reckon your ranking is right on, wax isnt a better option than a properly functioning water pump and intercooler set up. subii was asking on another post about not wanting to put a scoop on the bonnet and cause he had air con, he didnt want to put another radiator up front. i suggested that a waic with the wax replacing the water and no radiator would be better than a air/air top mount cooler and no scoop.

there isnt a way you could use a pump with a wax set up, because the wax would resolidify in the radiator and that would stop the pump fairly quickly.

i agree with andrew regards a hood scoop being essential for a top mount air to air, and i think they should have a fan as well for traffic conditions

d_generate · Post by **d_generate** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:38 pm

Funny you mention the fan, for years I've been toying with the idea of fitting a radiator type fan to the underside of my top mount, anyone ever done this?

wrxer · Post by **wrxer** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:01 am

i reckon the radiator fans from a watercooled sportsbike would be close to size. mid 90s ones had flat radiators