EJ22 problems

davmax · Post by **davmax** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:30 pm

I purchased a Liberty Wagon LX (EJ22) new in 1995 with the expectation of a lasting , reliable engine. At times when starting the engine it would make a terrible noise, as though it were running backward. At 200Km during replacement of the timing belt a test rotation of the engine revealed a lock up. Possibly because it was rotated backward whilst installing the belt. Without starting the motor the vehicle was transported to a Subaru service centre. I advised the lockup and suggested the cause be determined before starting. I was vilified, being told that I had bent the valves etc. (Now it is not possible to bend valves on that engine). Suffice to say they started the engine and it made a very nasty noise which they shrugged off. To complete their work I requested a compression test to confirm that no valves were bent. The test results were good. Needless to say that event and other rip offs from the same place caused me never to return. The engine then had a nasty knock in the bottom end and I replaced it with a low Km ex Jap engine EJ22.

The replacement engine has run very well with none of the strange, noisy startups. However now after 80,000Km it has developed a nasty knocking sound that appears during idle after standing hot for about five minutes. The noise recedes if auto drive is engaged and as the engine heats up or runs for about 5 minutes.

I am very concerned about the EJ22 life. It appears that I might be facing another replacement. This is not a good record. The vehicle has been driven carefully, serviced well, after warranty the engine oil for the first engine was Magnatec every service period. The second engine has been running on Helix 5-40 synthetic and when the knock appeared changed to Helix 15-50 High Mileage synthetic, this has not improved the knock.

The workshop manual suggests that a knock of this type is end float

Questions
1. Is there an inherent problem in the bottom end of the EJ22?
2. Can anybody advise what they feel the current knock is, and best fix?

I am very disappointed with these results and feel that I should raise the issues with Subaru.

thatsgoodsquishy · Post by **thatsgoodsquishy** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:58 pm

The are generally bullet-proof and go for ever, dunno what's going on your case

maxxair · Post by **maxxair** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:21 pm

very unusual. ive heard this 'running backward' sound in my ea82 (carb) when i shut it off, which was due to having the timing too far advanced. i have no helpful advice for your problem, other than saying the 'knocking' sounds like detonation, after running warm for a while, and loading the engine some how stops it. quite strange.

davmax · Post by **davmax** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:32 pm

Thanks Maxxair

Unfortunately detonation it is not. It is a metallic rattle/knock. One service guy suggested gudgeon pin rattle. Clearly something expands as temperature increases or oil is not being initially effective. The oil pressure light goes out rapidly on startup so oil should have pressure.

Checkers · Post by **Checkers** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:09 pm

EJ 22's as stated are usually a great engine. I have over 500 000 km on one of mine and it has been flogged every day of its life.

I can happily say winding it backwards or forwards etc will do no damage at all. The 22 is not an interference engine and I would love to know how they think you bent a valve and kept good compression. The only valve I have seen bent was due to a piston deciding to leave the conrod.

I have seen then get bottom end rattles which are usually the big ends and usually from lack or oil, crappy oil or abuse, none of which yours seems to have had.

Did you pull your old engine down and see what was up with it ?

Sounds like you are one very unlucky Ej 22 owner

GOD · Post by **GOD** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:46 pm

EJs can corrode and have occasional head problems, but bottom ends should last forever. I wouldn't have a lot of faith in a "low km import" engine - it still has 15-20 years of unknown history. And Subaru probably won't be terribly interested in problems with a vehicle and engine that were discontinued over a decade ago.

Sorry to say it, but I think you've just had some bad luck. If it's any consolation, I've gone through three EJ engines this year.

Dane.

Post by **TOONGA** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:53 pm

check your harmonic balancer (main pulley) it may be stuffed and not your bottom end

TOONGA

AlpineRaven · Post by **AlpineRaven** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:17 pm

EJ22s are the strongest engines that ive known and they do last for long time as well, I've been running magnetic in both of my Libertys over 150,000kms - havent had a problem...

Grab a long screw driver and place it into your ear and trace it to worst noise area, left, right, front, middle, back, under of the engine to give you an idea where the noise would be coming from...
Cheers
AP

davmax · Post by **davmax** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:15 pm

Toonga. I think you may be on the money. I checked all externals, valve gear, belts idlers and found the harmonic balancer outer ring is loose, not much at the moment. A new balancer is being sought. The Dorman product looks good value and claims better life than original. Link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... OTORS:1123

90brumby · Post by **90brumby** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:38 pm

if u dont have anyluck with that i can swing past some time and have a listen if u want

tristan

davmax · Post by **davmax** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:42 pm

Thanks for offer Brumby90. I will fit another balancer later today and see if this makes a difference. Balancer from my spare parts EJ22.

wrxer · Post by **wrxer** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:52 pm

i got a couple spares if you want, you can have a standard one, or buy my spare underdrive lightweight one. i in kenwick

wrxer · Post by **wrxer** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 7:13 pm

seeing you have the spare 22 why dont you drop sump and plastiguage bottom end on spare motor. you maybe able to rebearing old motor and drop back in.
if you have a manual gearbox you can check if it is crank end float by depressing clutch pedal while running, this will push crank forward and stop the knock. if its auto maybe you can drop starter out and use bar to push crank back and forth to check end float.
i think you need to measure hot oil pressure with a gauge rather than just the idiot light and check the sump for metal, sounds like big end to me. perhaps pop the sump off for a look and plastiguage.

drof351 · Post by **drof351** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:05 pm

Dont you have to split the block to plasti gauge anything?

davmax · Post by **davmax** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:20 am

Beware of subtle harmonic balancer failure. I have now replaced my failed balancer that apparently failed three years ago and no service person identified the problem. The problem first appeared to be an air con belt slip at low revs that could not be fixed with the slip being identified as on the balancer. The idler pulley configuration was changed to increase the amount of belt in contact with the balancer, still slipping could be heard and minimised by applying extra tension to the drive belts. Now it is known that the extra tension minimises the the balancer outer ring slip on the failed rubber bond.
So for three years I have had the prospect of the balancer being out of balance and out of round. This may be a contributor the knock that still remains in the engine at relatively low Kms (done 80,000Km since install) kms before install not known but claimed to be low. A read of the importance of the balancer to reduce engine stress is very useful. eg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_balancer

davmax · Post by **davmax** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:04 pm

I am afraid the engine seems rooted. I have measured the oil pressure it about 200Kpa at hot idle. Seems rather high. >500Kpa cold idle. The knock is louder and persistant, does not sound good at all. Looks like I may have to get another engine.

High oil pressure and knocking in the bottom end looks suspisciously like an oil starved engine with an oil way blockage such as a slipped bearing shell. Having had two EJ22 engines fail in a similar way it would seem that there is a design weakness in the bearing system. And NO additives have been used so it is pure failure. Not an impressive record for Subaru.

Having come to this opinion I started searching the net for Subaru bearing problems and found spun bearings.

Web searching reveals plenty of spun bearing problems with Subaru!!!!!!!!!!!

I have uploaded a video to the net. Noise can be heard and for some reason was louder yesterday. http://picasaweb.google.com.au/davmax60 ... 1775697234

Busdriver · Post by **Busdriver** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:50 pm

If you do pull it out, I would check the flywheel bolts for coming loose as well.