Rallying, what to build, and some other ideas.

damo666 · Post by **damo666** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:52 pm

When you say rallying, do you mean just a bit of bush-bashing, or real CAMS rallies??

If you mean real rallying, WombatRacing is on the money - you will not be able to use anything other than the original EA81 in it, so dont bother thinking about engine swaps. CAMS are also very specific about rollcage material & design, and this bears no correlation to what is 'legal' in the minds of the RTA (and vica-versa, 99% of CAMS compliant cages are not street legal).

I know a guy that used to rally an MY sedan, and it was slow as hell even with a very good driver. An RX turbo would be a better choice, an RS Lib or Rex an even better choice!

MY_STI · Post by **MY_STI** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:46 pm

A car trailer + car can be towed with an MY, have done it stock, yes it is a little dangerous, but its only illegal if you get caught

Not sure what kind of tracks/forestry/farms you have locally, but if you and your mates by one or a few cheap 'ea' subies, (if you can't find an operational one for less than $300 your not trying hard enough) pull out the stopwatch and go for it, you still have the fun factor, you haven't spent much money and should be able to improve your driving skills
You dont need to go fast to have fun.

You can always move onto CAMs rallies later, also you should be able to attend said rallies without being a competitor, talk to the people and get a better idea of what you want to do/what you are getting yourself into.

rsrlegacy · Post by **rsrlegacy** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 10:58 pm

He's in SA from memory. I already rally an RSR Legacy at club and state level. A bit of homework on the rally scene would be good. Also, at what level??????? Contact me if you want more details and people to speak to. $5000 for club level, OK. $5000 at state level, FORGET IT!!!!!!!

ToyRX · Post by **ToyRX** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 5:07 am

$5000 for club level, OK. $5000 at state level, FORGET IT!!!!!!!

Agreed - 5k is not enough to buy a worthwhile "Rally" car but will get you a entry level club car to have a lot of fun in, and this will be cheaper than building one up from scratch. Bear in mind I am basing this on the NZ club car prices, however Oz cant be that much different??

Phizinza · Post by **Phizinza** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:38 pm

damo666 wrote:When you say rallying, do you mean just a bit of bush-bashing, or real CAMS rallies??

If you mean real rallying, WombatRacing is on the money - you will not be able to use anything other than the original EA81 in it, so dont bother thinking about engine swaps. CAMS are also very specific about rollcage material & design, and this bears no correlation to what is 'legal' in the minds of the RTA (and vica-versa, 99% of CAMS compliant cages are not street legal).

I know a guy that used to rally an MY sedan, and it was slow as hell even with a very good driver. An RX turbo would be a better choice, an RS Lib or Rex an even better choice!

Ok, I think you got me wrong. I wanted to use a EA81dc in the rally car and something else in the towing car. Anyway, my brother might be getting a hilux soon, so I am thinking just about the rally car.

When I say rally I really only mean karnas, hill climbs, and some club stuff. At the moment I am thinking of doing the Brumby into a "raceable" car. The eninge it has, the ea81dc, should have just over 100hp. Seems its a EA81, I wouln't think they would call it a engine upgrade, from the out side it looks like a normal EA81 with two carbs. You can't see the extra flow it can do. So I am thinking about putting a soild alloy block 2"lift in, and throwing some better suspesion on. I will have another thread about susspension in the Converstion/Performance forum.

Other then a better lift kit and some nice coilover long ride suspension, a LSD, and maybe some alloy wheels with rally tyres (tho my M/T's get wicked traction) what else do you think it would need? I'd have to put a rear handbrake on of cause..

damo666 · Post by **damo666** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 7:02 pm

Ahhh...OK! In that case, I wouldnt be lifting it - just go with some good shocks & springs. I had Bilstiens in my RX T rallycar, and they were great, cost about $1000 to convert the fronts over to the smaller 35mm billies (with adjustable spring platforms). Koni's are a similar price, but dont seem to cope very well on the dirt, although alot of the tarmac guys seem to swear by them on tarmac.

If you want to do it cheaper than that, I'd be going for something like KYB gas inserts, which would probably survive fine for khana's & sprints.
If you have lots of money to throw around, a set of Proflex remote-canister jobbies would be the ducks nuts.......but your looking around $4500 for the fronts.

For now, just throw some KYB's in the rear. Get a good sumpgaurd & some cheap 2nd hand 13 rally tyres, and you'll be way ahead 90% of most of the other khana cars. Get out there and have fun!

tim_81coupe · Post by **tim_81coupe** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 7:15 pm

My local club has some funny restrictions regarding carbs, a guy I know built a Datsun 1600, fitted an L18 and put twin SU carbs on it and they knocked him back at scrutineering. Not for the 1800cc motor, but for the SU's. Mind you he was entering to compete, and probably should have read the rules a little better.
Will the club you intend on joining allow a Subaru with a lift kit?

I'd definitely firm up the rear as damo666 said and I'd add a rear swaybar too.

BaronVonChickenPants · Post by **BaronVonChickenPants** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 8:47 pm

I think you should have a chat with bratgeebah regarding his suspension upgrades, apparently his brumby out handles his mates WRX.

He's still putting the finishing touches on his brake kits, he said the suspension was not far down the list once he's done.

Jordan.

Phizinza · Post by **Phizinza** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:12 pm

damo666 wrote:Ahhh...OK! In that case, I wouldnt be lifting it - just go with some good shocks & springs. I had Bilstiens in my RX T rallycar, and they were great, cost about $1000 to convert the fronts over to the smaller 35mm billies (with adjustable spring platforms). Koni's are a similar price, but dont seem to cope very well on the dirt, although alot of the tarmac guys seem to swear by them on tarmac.

If you want to do it cheaper than that, I'd be going for something like KYB gas inserts, which would probably survive fine for khana's & sprints.
If you have lots of money to throw around, a set of Proflex remote-canister jobbies would be the ducks nuts.......but your looking around $4500 for the fronts.

For now, just throw some KYB's in the rear. Get a good sumpgaurd & some cheap 2nd hand 13 rally tyres, and you'll be way ahead 90% of most of the other khana cars. Get out there and have fun!

Thanks! A real help, rare find.
I was thinking about the lift so I could use the 27" tyres. I already have a 2" lift in there, but its weak steel tubing, and it doesn't look upto a thrashing.
The problem I have at the moment is with movment. The rear is hard and so is the front. Maybe that's because of the such large aftermarket springs on the front and the torsion bar is up full. I also have Monroe air shocks on the rear and I think there Monroe's on the front. I just find it to hard, as in when I use it off the beaten track it is too easy to get a wheel off the ground. That is why I was thinking of longride suspension.
If you see the suspension they use on rally cars in Kenya you can see they use very long travle and soft suspension. So I thought, why not follow the best?
Anyway, I am going to talk about this idea on a offroad racing forum, it isn't well suited here i hear.

WombatRacing · Post by **WombatRacing** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:57 pm

have a look at this link

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Subabru-87-RX-tu ... dZViewItem

Is this what your after?

tim_81coupe · Post by **tim_81coupe** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:31 pm

Phizinza wrote: Anyway, I am going to talk about this idea on a offroad racing forum, it isn't well suited here i hear.

Thats total BS. Not that I'm trying to stop you leaving the forum, I think I'll live with that, but you won't find a group of people who understand MY front suspension any better than here.

The little sad that you're throwing at the moment is basically because of the fact that you can't understand an answer when you're given it. You haven't really asked a question, you've posed an idea in the form of a question and now you're pissed off because you didn't get the response you wanted.

Sorry to sound abrasive but you really need to take a deep breath and think about the chain of events here. A few years back when I was a teenager I came on these forums and did pretty much what you've done in the last week, talked a lot of garbage and got pissed off at older and more experienced members. And I got shot down a lot sooner and a lot harder than you have.

When you've calmed down and joined us back here in reality I won't hold this last week against you.

smoov · Post by **smoov** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:03 pm

tim_81coupe wrote:
Phizinza wrote: Anyway, I am going to talk about this idea on a offroad racing forum, it isn't well suited here i hear.
Thats total BS. Not that I'm trying to stop you leaving the forum, I think I'll live with that, but you won't find a group of people who understand MY front suspension any better than here.

The little sad that you're throwing at the moment is basically because of the fact that you can't understand an answer when you're given it. You haven't really asked a question, you've posed an idea in the form of a question and now you're pissed off because you didn't get the response you wanted.

Sorry to sound abrasive but you really need to take a deep breath and think about the chain of events here. A few years back when I was a teenager I came on these forums and did pretty much what you've done in the last week, talked a lot of garbage and got pissed off at older and more experienced members. And I got shot down a lot sooner and a lot harder than you have.

When you've calmed down and joined us back here in reality I won't hold this last week against you.

I agree. Calm down. You're not winning any favourable opinions here. As mentioned by mudrat elsewhere, there is an incredible sense or comradery here within the older subaru fraternity, don't abuse that. Many pearls of wisdom have been shared with you, yet you seem to throw it back into people's faces. People have been very tolerant of you. If you don't loose that poor attitude soon, it will have negative implications for you in the future.

in my honest opinion, that RX Turbo rally car would be the most practical solution for you. seems to be reasonably priced. All the hard work has been done for you. All it needs is for you to enjoy it.

MUDRAT · Post by **MUDRAT** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:28 pm

I reckon it would be good to go and talk about it on an offroad racing forum.

I can pick you reckon we're pretty negative at your idea - fair enough, we probably are. But then it's probably because we've been in your shoes before, and we don't wanna see a bright young fella make the same blues as we have.

Phizinza · Post by **Phizinza** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:29 am

tim_81coupe wrote:Thats total BS. Not that I'm trying to stop you leaving the forum, I think I'll live with that, but you won't find a group of people who understand MY front suspension any better than here.

Umm... I know your a admin here, so why would you visit another forum. But, I think you should do your research before making a statement about AUSubaru being the most knowlagable in some thing MY. There are a lot of other forums out there, including the american one, and theres a great germen one too. They may not understand it any better, but there is more opinions about it.

tim_81coupe wrote:The little sad that you're throwing at the moment is basically because of the fact that you can't understand an answer when you're given it. You haven't really asked a question, you've posed an idea in the form of a question and now you're pissed off because you didn't get the response you wanted.

umm... that was the other thread mate...

I just wanted some answers from more then only 4 different people. It looks like only 1 out of 10 replies on this forum isn't by the normal bunch of 4 blokes. I like different opinions on options. Not a bunch of friends who agree with each other saying the same thing.
I think this forum would be heaps better if it was a friendlier place for new comers with stupid questions (as in at least post a reply with an answer to the main question, then you can add your thoughts.) I know I haven't been happy about this all, and I'm not one of those brats that just goes "he started it" because I realise that I continued it. This forum seems to be a very empty place (compared to some). But one of the ways to get more members is to be more accepting.
I can see why it is hard to get new members, after all you need to own a subaru, and they aren’t as common as holdens are they?... Places like USMB have over 30 members who regularly post to the old gen section, which I find gives me a better broader options and answers to the questions.
I see that you don't want people having a go at you, but it's no good just having a go back mate. It doesn't help. I still will use this forum of cause (why not?) but I think I'll be asking a broader bunch of people questions. Also I see I really should ask the right questions in the right places.
[/i]

smoov · Post by **smoov** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:11 am

Phizinza wrote:
tim_81coupe wrote:Thats total BS. Not that I'm trying to stop you leaving the forum, I think I'll live with that, but you won't find a group of people who understand MY front suspension any better than here.
Umm... I know your a admin here, so why would you visit another forum. But, I think you should do your research before making a statement about AUSubaru being the most knowlagable in some thing MY. There are a lot of other forums out there, including the american one, and theres a great germen one too. They may not understand it any better, but there is more opinions about it.

tim_81coupe wrote:The little sad that you're throwing at the moment is basically because of the fact that you can't understand an answer when you're given it. You haven't really asked a question, you've posed an idea in the form of a question and now you're pissed off because you didn't get the response you wanted.
umm... that was the other thread mate...

I just wanted some answers from more then only 4 different people. It looks like only 1 out of 10 replies on this forum isn't by the normal bunch of 4 blokes. I like different opinions on options. Not a bunch of friends who agree with each other saying the same thing.
I think this forum would be heaps better if it was a friendlier place for new comers with stupid questions (as in at least post a reply with an answer to the main question, then you can add your thoughts.) I know I haven't been happy about this all, and I'm not one of those brats that just goes "he started it" because I realise that I continued it. This forum seems to be a very empty place (compared to some). But one of the ways to get more members is to be more accepting.
I can see why it is hard to get new members, after all you need to own a subaru, and they aren’t as common as holdens are they?... Places like USMB have over 30 members who regularly post to the old gen section, which I find gives me a better broader options and answers to the questions.
I see that you don't want people having a go at you, but it's no good just having a go back mate. It doesn't help. I still will use this forum of cause (why not?) but I think I'll be asking a broader bunch of people questions. Also I see I really should ask the right questions in the right places.
[/i]

you're wondering why only four people reply to you?

its because you disrepect people, you disregard advice people give you, and you have your little emotinal outbursts at others.

maybe it would be better for you to go elsewhere and not come back. then you can really learn to appreciate the value of this forum and its members.

MUDRAT · Post by **MUDRAT** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:36 am

Since when does having 140 posts make you a new comer?

Mate we try to respect you, but take a look at the kind of stuff you're posting. We live in reality here, we've all been in your shoes so take some advice - or don't, but to whine when you don't get the answer you're looking for.

Try those two forums I linked to in the other thread, you might find you get a different reaction.

Don't compare us to USMB either - we're not like them and we don't want to be like them.

tim_81coupe · Post by **tim_81coupe** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 7:56 pm

Phizinza wrote:Umm... I know your a admin here

!!

I'm not an administrator, I'm not even a moderator, I'm just a general know it all smart-arse in the "group of 4".

Phizinza wrote:But, I think you should do your research before making a statement about AUSubaru being the most knowlagable in some thing MY

Research done. In general it seems the USMB has no problem with rendering their cars unwieldy, unsafe or ugly and I've seen plenty of bad advice given out there over the last few years. I don't want to talk too much trash about the USMB, I am a member there and I do feel a certain amount of their content is valuable. However for us in Australia a lot of it doesn't apply and some of it is plain wrong when applied to our vehicles.

Phizinza wrote:umm... that was the other thread mate...

I'm not that stupid dude, really. I couldn't be stuffed saying all that in the other thread, seemed a better idea at the time to tie it all into one.

Phizinza wrote:Places like USMB have over 30 members who regularly post to the old gen section

More than half of them don't know what they're on about. That is, they post when their only experience is booksmarts and not the real deal. I noticed you're a contributing member there, seems you've already made your choice of which forum to contribute to.

Shitfight over on my behalf. As I've stated elsewhere I hate getting into these situations and even more so hate that I can't help but continue them. I'll leave it up to any remaining reader of this thread to make up their own mind about the whole thing. Don't really care much what Phizinza has to say next, won't worry me in the slightest.

Tim here signing off for Ausubaru Shitfight #1 since the board came back up, back to you in the forum.
:P

32ford · Post by **32ford** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 4:15 pm

I'll throw in my two cents worth
sounds to me that you know what you want to build, so do the research and build it. If it turns out to be a full tube chassis/rollcage vehicle that could compete in the Paris-Dakar and that is what YOU want , then that is a great outcome, and would be of interest to all Subaru fans. Dont let other people tell you what not to build. Rod Hadfeilds Rolls-Royce Merlin powered 55 chev is completely silly but it is what he wanted and he built it . It probably cost him 10 times what he thought it would and took ten times longer but so what, he built the dream.

PeeJay · Post by **PeeJay** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:30 pm

If people tell you it can't be done, do it and prove them wrong!

Just because MYs might not be the strongest cars in the world shouldn't stop you if you understand that but decide to go ahead anyway.

If you do something that's not "normal" or "recommended" I'd sure like to know about it!

flat04 · Post by **flat04** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 1:12 am

Phizinza, RSRLeagcy ahs already invited you to speak to him about your sport. What better way to find out about it than speak to him?

Here are several reasons why.
- Owns and runs an RSR Liberty in the South Australian Rally Championship.
- Owns and manages the biggest Subaru parts place in South Australia.
- Knows an absolute heap about Subarus and is more than keen to share that knowledge with anyone.

You live in South Australia and you han't contacted him yet.
Are you scared to hear his answers?

The first rally for our (RSRLegacy and myself) is near the end of April. I suggest you come out and have a look. We both know plenty about the sport and the best way for you to get into it. My brother-in-law will also be running a Class 9 Offroad buggy there and will be able to teach you a heap about Offroad racing.

That's if you really want to know!!!!!!

Hope to see you out and about as the more Subarus there the better.

Andrew

p.s. You can enter your Brumby in the Come and Try it day rally sprint on the 30th of April. It will cost $55 and that gives you the entry fee and CAMS license for the day. http://www.wacc.asn.au for more info.