CLSD v/s Welded diff For offroad

guyph_01 · Post by **guyph_01** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:56 am

Hi guys,

I have always wanted to get a CLSD diff for my Wagon so i could have better performance offroad. I figured a CLSD diff so that i would not have to remove and re-fit a shaft as if i had a welded diff.
The problem is those CLSD are very hard to come by and i just got a Welded diff sitting at home. So im starting to consider using the welded diff.

I wanted to ask two things;
I heard that their is a little trick to make it easier to fit and remove the rear shaft. To cut and make shorter the pinion that sticks out from the diff? Is that correct? or is there some other way, other trick?
Secondly, What would be the advantage/Disadvantage, etc of using either one or the other for offroad purposes?

Regards
Guy

AlpineRaven · Post by **AlpineRaven** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:38 am

guyph_01 wrote:Hi guys,

I have always wanted to get a CLSD diff for my Wagon so i could have better performance offroad. I figured a CLSD diff so that i would not have to remove and re-fit a shaft as if i had a welded diff.
The problem is those CLSD are very hard to come by and i just got a Welded diff sitting at home. So im starting to consider using the welded diff.

I wanted to ask two things;
I heard that their is a little trick to make it easier to fit and remove the rear shaft. To cut and make shorter the pinion that sticks out from the diff? Is that correct? or is there some other way, other trick?
Secondly, What would be the advantage/Disadvantage, etc of using either one or the other for offroad purposes?

Regards
Guy

Only person I can tell you is Bennie does this..

Ive had welded diff once in my Liberty and its not good for bituman for little while, I think 2 months, I had creaking noises, and rear tyres wore out quicker than fronts, didnt like it on the road anyway (made me even more nervous in wet around corners).
BUT the good side, its so much easier and has more grip off road specially gravel & mud, I was able to do donuts easily on wet grass.
Cheers
AP

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:27 am

Guyph,

The welded would win out when 4wd'n - not that I've had a clutch pack to compare with...

The trick is to shave the axle stubs about 5 to 7mm. I think I've done mine to about 7mm. I've always taken out the right hand shaft to drive on the bitumen unless I know I'll be 4wd'n again that day.

The bonus of the LSD is that you can select 4wd anytime and its there to go, where as the welded you have to put the shaft in unless you drive with it in all the time like Phiz does. I've held my shafts in with cable ties - easy to access, easy to fit and easy to remove - I've not had a shaft drop off using cable ties (*touch wood).

The performance offroad was unbelieveable! I'm just itching for lift so I can go out again - I basically inverted my floor pan while I had the welded diff in there - and that was only in about 8 months of it being in there. I've currently got the open diff back in since going to the snow.

Give the welded a go, once you get over the fitting and removing the shaft you'll love it, especially with the EJ! I would source some spare rear shafts, diff stub axles and wheel hub stub axles incase one shears off or breaks while you're out 4wd'n. The torx bolt in the centre of the stub axle can be removed with an 8 or 10mm deep socket that's a hex shape, I got a $12 set from supercrap to do the job and it worked well.

Cheers

Bennie

AndrewT · Post by **AndrewT** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:31 am

Well think about it...

Welded diff - drives both rear wheels at once, at equal rates, at all times.
So you always have absolute maximum traction all the time from your rear end. This is obviously ideal for offroad.
Only drawback is in certain cases you don't want drive at all times. Like if you get in an arkward position in a rutt on a steep hill. One guy Johnno rolled his car and most of us rekoned it was a direct result of having a welded diff - but it was abit of an extreme situation.
Other disadvantage is having to remove a driveshaft for driving on the road. You can leave it in if you want but the rearend will bind up around corners etc - it's manageable but carparks are a real bitch.
It's good for "drifting" tho haha, if you have the power for it, the rear end really steps out nicely when you boot it around corners at the right time, very predictable too.
The trick to making it easier is to always remove the drivers side shaft - it can come out without having to move the diff. You can make it even easier by shortening the stub axel on the hub side slightly with a grinder. Also just use some bent wire to hold it in place instead of the little pins.

CLSD - drives both rear wheels at once as long as it can. Don't think for a second that if you lift a rear wheel off the ground with all the weight on the other wheel that a CLSD will actually help - really it won't - it will just **** itself if you rev your car, they just aren't tight enough for that situation and weren't designed with that kind of offroading in mind. However they come into their own with sand driving though, lots more traction. Just not as much as a welded diff of course.

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:43 am

AndrewT wrote: Only drawback is in certain cases you don't want drive at all times. Like if you get in an arkward position in a rutt on a steep hill. One guy Johnno rolled his car and most of us rekoned it was a direct result of having a welded diff - but it was abit of an extreme situation.

How good is the footage of that rollover?! Love it - and good to see that no one got hurt either, other than maybe a dinted pride...

Cheers

Bennie

AndrewT · Post by **AndrewT** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:45 am

It's great footage, nah was very slow rollover, they just pushed it back over, put some oil in and drove home, car is still driving today afaik. It just went onto it's side not full roof rollover. I'll try to dig it out and post it up.

guyph_01 · Post by **guyph_01** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:45 am

El_Freddo wrote: I basically inverted my floor pan while I had the welded diff in there - and that was only in about 8 months of it being in there.

What do you mean by this?

Hummm looks like Welded diff is the go then....

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:58 am

guyph_01 wrote:
El_Freddo wrote:I basically inverted my floor pan while I had the welded diff in there - and that was only in about 8 months of it being in there.
What do you mean by this?

My floor pan copped a beating! From factory the rear passengers may have had say 5 inches of foot room between the bottom of the driver's/passenger's front seats, but mine had maybe 2 inches AFTER I'd already pushed them out. When I took the floor lining out I found that I needed to push/hit/hammer them out further.

With the welded diff I was able to push the L further than it was intended to go - most of the damage was done in granite country where round boulders move under the car as you pass over them, all it took was a light tap to move them - that's where they would roll under the car between the ground and your floor pan. Not a nice feeling. I've also been in a situation where I was bellied out (middle section between the front and rear wheels were bottomed out on some earth/rock etc) and managed to push over it with the welded diff - my driver's seat moved independantly to the rest of the subi - again, not a good feeling at all!

If I had a lift kit and some larger tyres I dare say that I wouldn't have incurred this damage, then again I may have got myself into a worse situation!

Just be careful not to push it too far - its very easy to do while you're learning what the welded diff can do...

AT, I've got that footage on the DVD

Its always good to bust that one out from time to time!

Cheers

Bennie

guyph_01 · Post by **guyph_01** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:05 am

Oh ok, hummm well since i already have that welded diff, and getting a LSD would mean $400, i think im going for the welded diff then.

Well when i can solve the temp issues and after i get the 5stud crossbreed kit.

How long would it take to put that right rear shaft after the stub axle has been made shorter?

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:17 am

guyph_01 wrote:How long would it take to put that right rear shaft after the stub axle has been made shorter?

It takes me about 5 minutes at the most - you do have to jack up the rear wheel so its off the ground as you'll need to rotate it to fit a pin etc in the hole. You'll get it nailed once you start putting it on and taking it off...

And that's the other advantage of the welded diff - they're as cheap as an open diff and a few beers (for a mate to weld it up if you can't).

Cheers

Bennie