Who's done L Series front brakes to MY?

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 10:16 am

Just wondering who has fitted L Series front disc brakes to MY / Brumby to take advantage of the larger pad area and availability of L Series brakes as opposed to aging MY stuff

As in L Series front hub, disc and caliper, retaining MY lower control arms and camber bars.

Was it as simple as fitting an L Series CV joint (outer) to an MY CV shaft. I am certain the ball joint and tie rod tapers are the same and the hydraulic hoses are all the same lengths and fittings etc.

The brake master cylinders I have compared between the two models are both same internal bore size so should not be a pressure difference for the hydraulics.

Just curious that the CV shaft does not alter any front end geometry like fitting L series lower control arms does due to the extra length in the L shaft itself. The L hubs are needed due to different seal and or bearing sizes.

any experience appreciated.

Post by **TOONGA** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 10:28 am

why not go for the ventilated front brake from a later model brumby or MY wagon no messing around all you need is the calipers, bolts and the discs and they fit right in

or are you looking at bigger discs for greater stopping power?

TOONGA

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 12:29 pm

I have a feeling that the lower ball joint is different so you either have to go with L series lower control arms and have extra front track, or machine the MY lowers to accept the ball joint. Dont quote me on that though.

If what i have written above is do-able, thats what i'll be doing to my MY sedan when the time comes.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:57 pm

I have the later model MY vented discs '84 onwards I think. I have the L Series bits minus the converted CV shafts, got all those used bits too (just can't separate joint from shaft on the ones I played with last) Since I fitted new brake pads I get an occasional binding caliper noise and rather than overhaul caliper..... and also in prep for an intended EA82T install in the Brumby. There is a lot more better condition L series bits available than there are old MY stuff - cripes my Brumby is 25 years old !! in October

If I recall right, the taper is the same between the two models, from a quick fiddle with bits kicking around.

rtcb65 · Post by **rtcb65** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:29 pm

The L series cv's wont go on the standard M.Y. drive shaft i don't think. I have heard that you will need the turbo/ 22spline shaft for the L series ones to fit. I am not sure , but i think the rest is interchangeable. But don't quote me one that.

wrxer · Post by **wrxer** » Sun Aug 09, 2009 12:12 am

i can tell you the ball joint and tie rod taper is the same. liberty has bigger ball joint

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Sun Aug 09, 2009 8:12 am

Sweet, so does that mean a L series hub will bolt straight in, or is there more to it?

Im assuming that custom driveshafts are needed cos of MY's narrower track?

Matt · Post by **Matt** » Sun Aug 09, 2009 7:30 pm

I could see why the L Series outer wouldn't fit on the MY shaft as i have the exact oposite of that on my ute. i.e My outers on a L series shaft. Also you basically wont be able to get the Outer cv's off the shaft without destroying them. This came from personal experiences

and a CV shaft mechanic / expert with all the right tools. Also the ball joints are the same for a my and L series. PM me if you want some MY shafts as i have a few at home.

subybrumby · Post by **subybrumby** » Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:38 pm

Mate, Just been through all this.

I bought my EA82T Brumby a couple years ago and it had the L series front brakes fitted. The car also had incredible over positive camber \ / so that the front of the car looked like a Vee dub with no engine in it. It took me ages to solve the problem with the help of advice from Phizinza. When he mentioned something about the two hubs (MY and L series) it was like a light went off in my head and I knew I had solved the problem.

The L series and MY front hubs (apparently) are not the same. I'll get to this in a minute. The brakes are larger on the L series and the brake frame that bolts onto the hub is different. If you have both hubs together you will see that the two bolt holes on the hubs that takes the brake calipers are different. In other words, L series brakes will not bolt onto MY hubs. If they did, there would be no problem. So you have to use the L series hubs. Now! here comes the problem. If you look at the L series hub front on compared to the MY, the (this is very important) angle of the entry of the strut and the exit of the lower ball joint is different. forget all about what axles to use etc, because you have to use the L series hubs and when mounted onto the MY lower control arm, I can tell you now, you will have over positive camber to buggery. I did, and it took me ages to work out what the problem was. I went to full L series front setup with L series axles, control arm and Falcon radius rods, camry tie rod ends etc etc but although the camber was fixed I ran into other problems with the inner boot fouling on the steering shaft (Another story), and then finally discovering the difference in the hubs, I have gone back to brumby setup. It was just too much mucking about.

Mate, I'll stand corrected on any of this, but I've spent too much time laying on my back under the thing in the shed looking at it, that I have to say that I believe Phizinza is right. The two hubs are not the same in more ways than one.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:49 am

some really valuable offerings there guys. Might also explain why I've been able to rebuild MY shafts but not remove any L outers so far. That was frustration plus in trying.

Subybrumby , was yours std height with those L brakes?

Might be a potential for an engineered adaptor bracket to fit L calipers to MY hubs. from memory there was about a ten mm difference centre to centre of the caliper to hub bolt holes so probably rules that out.

subybrumby · Post by **subybrumby** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:19 am

My brumby has a 3" lift kit installed and the L series lower control arms bring the front wheel forward. This helps the castor aspect of the steering but in my case the inside boot was fouling on the extension piece that is installed on the steering column for the lift kit. At one stage, I had a guy actually cut and re-engineer a set of L series lower control arms to bring the wheel back to where it should be in its standard position. I installed one, but the L series axle would not fit. But a brumby one would fit but with pressure on the CV joint brought to its fully extended position. It looked right and I may have gotten away with it. I would have been able to keep the L series hub and brakes. At that point, I was sick of not being able to drive the thing and when Phizinza revealed the differences in the hubs, I threw my hands up and went back to the brumby setup. I also took the opportunity then to install in the brumby front end, all new axles, ball joints, tie rod ends, bearings, seals, brake pads and also kitted out the caliper cylinders. At this time, all is going well and I have done a few short trips with it. I also made and installed new shields for the boot (that was giving me the problems) that lies under the turbo. By the way, there are a couple of different MY brake configurations also. Mine are off a wagon from a wrecking yard and they are slightly different to a brumby and slightly different pad size. The main difference is in the pin how they lock the callipers in. All I'm saying is beware when you buy new pads or if you switch bitty bits around from MY to My. The difference is described in the Gregorys manual. Cheers.

subybrumby · Post by **subybrumby** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 4:03 pm

This is how the re worked L series control arms came up. They were made to take the L series hubs on an MY brumby but maintaining acceptable camber. I still have them. Just can't get an axle to fit them. They were cut and shut with bracing underneath.

[ATTACH]1589[/ATTACH][ATTACH]1590[/ATTACH]

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:58 am

Wow! The trouble you can go to when you think things will work! Not so bloody interchangeable at times this subie stuff. Was talking to my local parts guy about this and basic comment was MY front wheel looks to fall over heaps when wheels turn even stationary, the L series less so, giving possible reason for the hub angle pivot differences revealed here by subybrumby. He also shared with me that he sold his 540,000km RS Lib some months back for peanuts. Had I known.......

subybrumby · Post by **subybrumby** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:59 pm

No worries mate, glad to help because a lot of people on here have helped me. In the end, I am happy just to run brumby brakes and be aware that yea they're probably not as good as L series brakes. I have another standard brumby that I go to work in and it pulls up ok. In a nutshell, if you want L series brakes, go for the complete L series lower control arm conversion which is described elsewhere on this forum. Cheers. PS I run rear discs too which help in the overall picture anyway.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:42 pm

thanks again. I tell you what, I was about to get a coupla shafts made up with L outers on Brumby shaft and just get stuck into it. Woulda surely come a gutser trying this. If I strip my L I will have the disc rear for my ute. Surely the L Series stuff [lower control arms and bluesteels mod rods] can't be done to standard height and get wheel alignment and good tyre wear for tarmac?

subybrumby · Post by **subybrumby** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:01 pm

Uhmm, ?? I can't speak for L series lower control arm modification to a standard height brumby, except that because the front wheel comes forward a couple of inches, there are issues with the wheel fouling on the front guard. There is a modification that guys get done where the front guard is cut back to level with the bottom of the bumper. I think it is relatively easy thing to do. Mine came with it done anyway. And after I had fitted the L modification, I had four new GT radials fitted (14") and full wheel alignment. This included some minor adjustment in slotting the top of the strut tower on one side by the mechanic. It sat beautifully on the road and went really well. When you looked at it front on, it had some negative camber but remember also that if you go this way, the front wheels will be out a little bit wider than the back, not a great amount but you will notice it. Your front wheel track will be wider than the rear wheels.

Phizinza · Post by **Phizinza** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:35 am

Sorry, skipped the last 5 posts so if I am writing what has already been said oh well...

The L series knuckles have a different roll radius. This means the line throw the shocker down the the ball joint is different. Making the L series knuckles sit further inwards at the bottom giving much much more positive camber.

The L series driveshafts vs MY driveshafts are the same except for one thing, the part that the seal goes on in the knuckle is larger on the L driveshaft. What I done was get a piece of ally, lathed it up as sleeve over the MY shaft to gain that extra size on for the seal to work. DO NOT PUT L driveshafts in MY hubs! This is bust the seal and you'll ahve bearing problems.

You will have to modify the control arms. I would suggest getting a pair of L series ones, cutting some out and cutting them on an angle so they sweep back a bit like the MY's ones only not as much. Say make them so the balljoint sits 30mm or so further forward. Then get longer radius rods (82 Toyota Crown ones worked good for me, read my website for more info) and run positive caster. This will help handling HEAPS. And tyre wear.

You will find that left and right on your Subaru will not be equal. This means if you want the same camber left vs right side you will need to custom make the control arms for each side. Cutting, tacking, bolting, measuring is how I done it. I used a ruler with a level on it, and another ruler. Putting the ruler with the level vertical against the wheel then measuring the gap between the top or bottom of the wheel to that level ruler. Pull the arm out, adjust, tack, bolt back in and measure again. Finally got my Brumby to have 1.5 +/- .2 negative camber. And adjusted the caster so the knuckle and hub were about 10mm further forward then the top of the strut.

And if any of that didn't make sense, ignore it or don't f*** with your car.

subybrumby · Post by **subybrumby** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:01 pm

amen to that!