EA82 T/belt stuff up experts wanted....

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:40 pm

Should be in TROUBLESHOOTING

Looking for advice from all those who have stuffed up EA82 timing belts

Hoping somewone is gona read this and say it sounds just like what they had on an EA82 and trhe fix was....

Engine out of car to do valve springs requiring timing belts off and back on again.

Done it all according to the book as I have before, and got it right first time each time. I have even done the rotate by hand a few times to check that all lines up, took photos even....

Also fitted the manual gearbox so things are a bit different sounding like the manual starter motor and no quiet torque converter. Still up on stands so that also sounds different.

It won't idle right, sounds like it is three cylinders at first. Hard to get timing right if it won't idle but timing is too advanced about 25 to 30 BTDC if i can see things right.

To those that have had cam out 180 degrees, can you do that trick following instructions ?

I suppose a comp test is first up to see after reducing timing a bit
whatever it is it is upsetting the gas carby so like it is getting a dodgy vacuum signal.

ah hook up vac gauge too maybe

your comment is appreciated

Jonno

EDIT something is definitely wrong. Engine sounds like it is having a comp test when cranking to start like no compression - the plugs are still in it !!

It needs a bit of throttle to get it to actually start. I wonder if both cams are out 180 degrees??

Another EDIT is this what it is like with just a tooth out on the timing belt ? I have hooked up the vacuum gauge. At about 1000rpm it is still about 2 or 3 inHg, only when I get the revs up to 2500 does it get a decent yet quivering vacuum reading

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:32 am

A real quick way to check provided you can see the flywheel marks and the cam pulley/rear belt cover marks .

Turn the engine over until the timing pointer lines up with the longest (middle I think) cam timing lines .
What you are effectively doing here is setting the crank at center stroke or in other words crank pins lined up in the verticle plane .
They want you to do this so that the valves are nowhere near the piston crowns - not that they touch on a std config EA82 anyway .

With the crank/flywheel set thus look at where the cam pulley dots are . The nearside (RHD pass side) one should be in vertical alignment above the center of the camshaft and should line up with the mark on the rear half of the belt cover . If the cam pulley marks are bottom on the pass side and top on the drivers side then the crank is one turn out so spin it one complete revolution . You can get this right initially by checking where the distributors rotor button is pointing in relation to the no 1 leads pole inside the cap . If its pointing at (approaching) no 2's pole your 1 crank turn out . Remember the firing order is 1324 , one turn out on an inline 4 would be 4 instead of 1 because their firing order is 1342 .

Now look at the off side cam pulley (RHD drs side) , its dot should be lined up with the center of the camshaft as well but below it rather than above it like on the other side .

The reason why manuals get you to fit the pass side belt and then rotate the crank one complete turn is so that the drivers side pulley dot will be vertically upwards . Remember camshafts turn at half crank speed so one full rotation of the crank means one half a complete revolution of the camshaft .

The cheats method is to set the pass side dot upwards and the drivers side downwards . Of course you would turn the crank a couple of turns after the belt tensioners were set and double check where all the alignment guides were .

Cheers A .

Post by **Captain Obvious** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:59 am

on the fly wheel there will be 3 lines in a row, they are you timing marks for putting the belts on, the the bell housing up with the middle one and you should be able to see what you have done wrong on the front of the motor!!

cheers
bryan

Outback bloke · Post by **Outback bloke** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:55 am

It does sound like you have used the wrong marks on the fly wheel. The way you describe it sounds like you have used the timing light marks (+/- 20deg) on the fly wheel, not the cam timing marks (3 lines close together).

The only way you can have a cam 180 out is if your timing marks on the front are wrong. If you have both of them 180 out it won't start.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:12 am

REVIEWING what I did

Motor out to replace full set of valve springs

Also fitted new hydraulic valve lash adjusters to cyl 1 & 3. (not done when 2 & 4 got theirs!)

Fitted belts as per factory manual using the middle of the three belt replace marks on flywheel
One good reason for this position is their is no valve springs trying to turn a camshaft - things stay put. SMART FUJI ! Took photos of cam sprockets all lined up, turned motor over several times to settle things and recheck

Engine goes back in assembled with a clutch and flywheel this time as 5 speed manual conversion also took place which is why I am itching to drive this baby again !!

Did a compression test this morning on a COLD engine and new gauge.

#1 ZERO
#2 150
#3 150
#4 150

Something is wrong, compression was tested when motor initially went in as was 130 psi all four pots. Now I got ZILCH on #1 and 150 [which is too much] on the other three.I expected to find an imbalance of either two cylinders or all four NOT just one cylinder.

STEP 1
I need to rip TB covers off to recheck my work

STEP2
I may need to remove rocker cover to investigate my work on valves and valve springs, even though I check and recheck as I go , slowly but surely

STEP3

Suspect new HVLA ?

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:30 am

Cam timing first though it is a worry that No1 is zip .

If you can't find anything out of the ordinary by looking at the valve train then hate to say it but may mean head off to investigate .

Actually there is one thing you can do , if you can adapt an old spark plug to accept an air fitting (or adapt compression tester hose) and blow air into the cylinder you can listen to where the air escapes from .
If its out the exhaust pipe the exhaust valve can't be sealing .
If its out the throttlebody the inlet valve cant be sealing .
If its out the crank case breathers the rings or piston isnt sealing .
If it tries to pressurise the cooling system then the headgasket would be suspect .

Fingers crossed its something simple , cheers A .

Outback bloke · Post by **Outback bloke** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:32 am

I see.

STEP2
I may need to remove rocker cover to investigate my work on valves and valve springs, even though I check and recheck as I go , slowly but surely

That sounds like where you will find the trouble. It will be a lash adjuster is riding on a valve or one of your lifters has hyper-extended. It is quite common for the lash adjusters to not sit correctly causing a valve to remain open at all times.

It is not common but it does happen when the lash adjusters "let go" and they pump up too much and pop the top off. This too will cause a vlave to be open at all times.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:39 am

you are telling me what I don't want to hear. They were brand new out of the packet that I tried to bleed up with sewing machine oil. I can see one cranky steptoe coming up.

It is a job I not look forward to if it is. The bit I hate most is cleaning up old [or new in this case] sealant.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:54 pm

Well....bother me! The correct name as used in the Subaru manual for the offending item is "valve rocker"

It took less time to pull the rocker cover off than it did to come in here and think out loud but that is the powerful important tool in here and sharing stuff with others out there in cyberspace.

Outback Bloke you got it right !! Musta been there before eh ?

Shine the light up and there on #1 intake valve stem is the valve rocker sitting out of its groove with the higher side bit sitting on the valve. Panic stations for a while, then started to make up a join nut and two bolt press to push the intake valve spring top against the chassis rail and then took load off the valve getting the lobe out of the way and without the new press tool gently pushed the valve rocker back into place with a clean tyre lever.

Will have to wait until tomorrow for the rocker cover to go back on and start up, tune it and reregister it and should be happy steptoe

The clickety sound within my Impco 200 LPG carby should have been a good indicator as it reacts to vacuum signals as part of its fuel delivery.

An important diagnostic tool every tinkerer should have is the trusty old vacuum gauge, and the comp test also helped zero in on the problem.