push or tow start autotrans??

sven '2' · Post by **sven '2'** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:51 am

To settle a debate, can autos (like a old Holden Tri-matic) be push started?

Of course the quick answer is no, but...the campfire myth I heard was that once over 50mph will actually start like a manual box?

Sounds a bit 'Back to the future' myself, but though i would ask nevertheless.

sven

Storm · Post by **Storm** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 2:34 am

The answer is a resounding no.

Outback bloke · Post by **Outback bloke** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 8:16 am

I tried this in my old Falcon ute. I drove along at about 70k's and put it in neutral then turned the engine off. Waited for it to stop and then pulled it in to drive. I shit myself because it started. Until then I would never have believed it either.

sven '2' · Post by **sven '2'** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:00 am

Storm wrote:The answer is a resounding no.

As i thought

Outback bloke wrote:I tried this in my old Falcon ute. I drove along at about 70k's and put it in neutral then turned the engine off. Waited for it to stop and then pulled it in to drive. I shit myself because it started. Until then I would never have believed it either.

Bugger...you just me cost a six pack of beer in a lost bet!!

Thanks

sven

Storm · Post by **Storm** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:35 am

Outback bloke wrote:I tried this in my old Falcon ute. I drove along at about 70k's and put it in neutral then turned the engine off. Waited for it to stop and then pulled it in to drive. I shit myself because it started. Until then I would never have believed it either.

The engine may have stopped but it was still spinning and already had combustion heat in it.

If you take a cold engine that wont start by the key the exact same way as you do a manual it wont work.

D3V1L · Post by **D3V1L** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:48 am

i beg to differ. i have done it...several times

but the car only did it if i left it in gear when i turned it off...and pulling it it started at about 30 - 40 kms...

did it twice in my AU fairmont, and once in a mates car

Storm · Post by **Storm** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:27 pm

D3V1L wrote:i beg to differ. i have done it...several times

but the car only did it if i left it in gear when i turned it off...and pulling it it started at about 30 - 40 kms...

did it twice in my AU fairmont, and once in a mates car

So the engines were cold? and the cars were dead still?

I have never seen it work and have seen many people try it, to me it's a campfire myth for a reason. One thing to consider before you try it is the damage being done to the transmission. The oil pump isn't being driven yet towing the car is driving the transmission from the tailshaft end. The clutches and bands cannot grip because there is no oil pressure behind them. Effectively each time you try it you will strip the friction material from the clutches and bands, overheating them very quickly.

I obviously can't discount it now, but never having seen itwork and knowing the damage towing an auto car does to the transmissionif the tailshaft isn't removed I wouldn't even attempt it.

Phizinza · Post by **Phizinza** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:46 pm

My Mercedes had a procedure in the manual on how to tow start it.
First you had to tow it for 2 minutes in neutral at 20kph to warm up the transmission oil, then stick it in second and increase to 50kph, if it didn't start after 30 seconds then you have to stop for 30 minutes and try again... Something like that anyhow. Sounds like a waits of time, I mean if you have another car to tow it, you have plenty of power to just start the car.

D3V1L · Post by **D3V1L** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 2:01 pm

Storm wrote:So the engines were cold? and the cars were dead still?

I have never seen it work and have seen many people try it, to me it's a campfire myth for a reason. One thing to consider before you try it is the damage being done to the transmission. The oil pump isn't being driven yet towing the car is driving the transmission from the tailshaft end. The clutches and bands cannot grip because there is no oil pressure behind them. Effectively each time you try it you will strip the friction material from the clutches and bands, overheating them very quickly.

I obviously can't discount it now, but never having seen itwork and knowing the damage towing an auto car does to the transmissionif the tailshaft isn't removed I wouldn't even attempt it.

yes...the damage was indeed there....but im just trying to make my point that it is possible:P

will never do it again either...caus it cost me dearly..not just for a new battery

dave

daza · Post by **daza** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 4:42 pm

Storm wrote:The answer is a resounding no.

Actually...

Phizinza wrote:My Mercedes had a procedure in the manual on how to tow start it.

It's a feature fitted to some auto box's.
The likes of a Holden or ford wont have it, but some euro stuff has.
The 1965 Minimatic had it!

Daza.

Storm · Post by **Storm** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 5:02 pm

daza wrote:Actually...

It's a feature fitted to some auto box's.
The likes of a Holden or ford wont have it, but some euro stuff has.
The 1965 Minimatic had it!

Daza.

Considering the question was related to an "Old Holden Trimatic" I would still maintain I am correct in that regard. People claim they have done it with Fords, I can't say they haven't, but I can say they have damaged their boxes even attempting it. From memory the old minimatic and mercs that do it to could well be termed a "clutch auto". The only thing they don't have is a clutch pedal.

AlpineRaven · Post by **AlpineRaven** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 5:12 pm

Hmm.... I dunno... I did that once in VN Commodore about 2 years ago, got it towed to top of the hill in netural, reach speed to 60kmh before to the bottom while the key is "on" with lights on then wack it in lowest gear then it does turn the engine over to get it started, the battery was too flat to get it started and didnt have jumper leads but had tow rope so that is why...
Cheers
AP

Matatak · Post by **Matatak** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 5:42 pm

Im with Storm.

if there are ways around it then dont do it.

defeinetely gonna upset the Box doing it.

Storm · Post by **Storm** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 6:50 pm

AlpineRaven wrote:Hmm.... I dunno... I did that once in VN Commodore about 2 years ago, got it towed to top of the hill in netural, reach speed to 60kmh before to the bottom while the key is "on" with lights on then wack it in lowest gear then it does turn the engine over to get it started, the battery was too flat to get it started and didnt have jumper leads but had tow rope so that is why...
Cheers
AP

Your lucky you didn't smash the box. They VN boxes were weak as, the VP boxes were much stronger, then when they went electronic they were weak again

AlpineRaven · Post by **AlpineRaven** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 8:49 pm

Storm wrote:Your lucky you didn't smash the box. They VN boxes were weak as, the VP boxes were much stronger, then when they went electronic they were weak again

Yeah it was VP engine & box, previous engine had blown bottom end and i replaced the engine with VP.
Cheers
AP

sven '2' · Post by **sven '2'** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 11:06 pm

Storm wrote:
I obviously can't discount it now, but never having seen itwork and knowing the damage towing an auto car does to the transmissionif the tailshaft isn't removed I wouldn't even attempt it.

You wouldn't try it? I sure would - next time I have access to a clapped out auto will give it a go 'mythbusters' style!

Can't say i would be as brave with my 07 Forester but...

sven

daza · Post by **daza** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 12:01 am

Storm wrote:Considering the question was related to an "Old Holden Trimatic" I would still maintain I am correct in that regard. People claim they have done it with Fords, I can't say they haven't, but I can say they have damaged their boxes even attempting it. From memory the old minimatic and mercs that do it to could well be termed a "clutch auto". The only thing they don't have is a clutch pedal.

The minimatic was a standard 4 speed auto, with an output shaft driven hydraulic pump specifically to allow tow starting.
But you’re right about the basic boxes used by ford and holden.
Once got a cortina auto to 100kph under tow and tried all positions on the shifter, nothing, not even in reverse! (yes, i was trying to brake the box!)
Daza.

dibs · Post by **dibs** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 3:54 pm

i had a 1957 hudson 4 speed borgwarner auto it engaged at about 35 ks . i did it frequently sneeking away from old girlfriends place. i seem to remember doing it in a 61 falcon as well . i thought holdens did at about 60 ks but then i was unaware my brumby didnt have a front sway bar till i looked lol

dibs

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:05 am

dibs wrote:i had a 1957 hudson 4 speed borgwarner auto it engaged at about 35 ks . i did it frequently sneeking away from old girlfriends place. i seem to remember doing it in a 61 falcon as well . i thought holdens did at about 60 ks but then i was unaware my brumby didnt have a front sway bar till i looked lol

dibs

HAHAHAHA!!! So Mrs Dibs won out on that arguement eh?! I only read that thread last night... I think its weird that you two dig at eachother for us to read

On topic - why not challenge your mate to try it out on his vehicle, or better still - his missus' unit that would more likely be an auto

That'll get the bet sorted quickly!

Bennie

Wilbur · Post by **Wilbur** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:41 am

Might have to try this in the work ute while a still have access to an auto (New Navara).