Biography of an EA82T Hi-Rise Intake

nncoolg · Post by **nncoolg** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:45 pm

Well, I am thinking about geting an older subaru again, so I decided to get my Hi-Rise intake out today and have a look at it for some motivation, I was suprised, I never noticed that the plenum was so big before, it is huge! No wonder they are such an improvement over the standard horizontal intake! While having a play I noticed that with VERY little effort, the intake can be reversed, allowing for a front-facing throttle, I am now very keen to grab an L or XT series !

some photos:

This is the Injector block, which forms the bottom part of the manifold, one on each side, coolant crossover casting mates-up to these:

This is what they ports are like, much better than the carby EA's thats for sure! :

This is how the whole thing looks and measures, without all the vaccum / fuel lines under it:

You can really see just how large the plenum is:

This is the intake top mounted the Correct Way (throtle facing rear):

Reversed (facing forward - shorter intake length with FMICs):

What it fouls when reversed - EGR input, just bend the vac. lines, or use 3mm silicon hoses!:

Plenum is plenty big enough for a larger throttle or twin throttle even!:

Subafury · Post by **Subafury** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:30 pm

nice i hope it works for ya! if u get another turbo L. i always wanted a spider intake for mine.

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:57 pm

The later Vortex inlet manifold (AKA Spider intake) is certainly the better of the two factory options though hardly perfect .

To look at them disassembled (I've three of them) the ports are still smallish from the plenum chamber to the injector adapter section and the runners are not thick walled enought to get them anything like the size of an EJ20 manifold .

Agreed the plenum chamber is larger than the garden variety MPFI L series one which doesn't have a whole lot of "plenum" volume .
Some people seem to think that the "Spider" intakes throttle plate is larger than the L Series one but I think I measured them ages ago and they work out close to if not the exact same size .
Actually the Spider throttlebody (and ithe intakes wiring loom) are a real PITA
because they were designed specifically to suit a Vortex/XT4 and not L Series cars . The wiring loom disappears back through the middle of a Vortexes firewall - not over to the drivers side like a RHD L Series .
The throttle quadrant and throttle position switch are the opposite way around compared to L Series and the throttle shaft rotates in the opposite direction . These traits are more akin to ER27 and EJ series engines .
IMO the fix (for L Ser conversions) is to make up an aluminium plate the same footprint as the L throttlebody and weld it to the back of the spider plenums chamber . Basically the spider TB has a slightly different bolt pattern and only the top two holes of an L TB line up on a spider plenum . The lower two holes are too high on the plenum so to extend down far enough without spacing the TB too far back welding the above mentioned adapter plate on is the most straightforward fix IMO .
Once this is done either early or late L MPFI TB's fit with their respective TPS and should plug in as per normal . Mods are required to get the throttle cable to fit up .

I'm not so sure attempting to mody the Spider engine loom is the way to go .
You would have to extend the loom plugs far enough to reach where the L's body side loom plugs are and that means every wire .
I have not reached this stage yet but I'm predicting my people will say easier in the long run to use the L MPFI engine loom and extend only the necessary wires to reach sensors too far away to just plug straight in .

On the engine spec side of things I've noticed that Spider Vortex EA82/EA82T engines tended to use slightly longer period (duration) camshafts than the equivalent L series ones .

I see three main advantages in the Spider vs the L inlet manifolds .

1) The upper or plenum section is less exposed to water gallery heat .
2) Increased plenum volume .
3) Much gentler curves in the runners leading to the inlet ports - longer too .

Not the most straightforward conversion into a L Series but very doable .

PS It makes life a lot easier in an EA82T app if you can get the TB to turbo outlet bulb/pipe thing . I have a couple of them and they'll make great temporaries until the WAIC goes in .

PS2 ! Most Spiders I've noticed have the EGR passage blocked with carbon which will please some and aggravate others .

Have fun , cheers A .

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:12 pm

Nice, I've never seen one of these up close like this before - always wanted one for my NA MPFI to see what the difference was, but never found a turbo vortex with one on it - all were the garden variety intake...

Since I've ditched the MPFI '82 route and am looking at the EJ path, I have no need for this anymore...

Good luck with it.

Cheers

Bennie

nncoolg · Post by **nncoolg** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:29 am

Disco - do you have any of said XT throttle bodies?

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:17 am

Yes I have two of those , the original set of Spider castings was nude ie no rails TB or sensors .

Personally I would not use them in anything except an original late Spider equipt Vortex/XT4 .

A .

nncoolg · Post by **nncoolg** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:20 pm

demoralised now

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:44 pm

discopotato03 wrote: Personally I would not use them in anything except an original late Spider equipt Vortex/XT4

Why?

I am pulling off my manifold soon to add a powersteering bracket,... one of these looks mighty tempting,... can i have one?

nncoolg · Post by **nncoolg** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:36 pm

dibs on the bare one, to disect it & complete the biography!

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:10 pm

What I ment was I wouldn't use the Vortex backwards upside down throttlebody on anything accept an XT4 - begrudgingly - until its TPS failed .

Sorry gentlemen , the insects stay with me until Ellies got a new windpipe .

When I'm tired of this gal no ones going to want to pay me what it's worth so she'll probably get parted out , hateful task and been there before but I've had to globe trot for the tasty bits and usually they don't come cheap .

Cheers A .

nncoolg · Post by **nncoolg** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:18 pm

ok, me understand now

GTB throttle it is !
Getting off topic now, if anyone has an OLD spider, let me know, cutting wheel awaits:)

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:31 pm

discopotato03 wrote:Sorry gentlemen , the insects stay with me until Ellies got a new windpipe

You only have one engine, are you keeping the others just for bragging rights?

nncoolg wrote:if anyone has an OLD spider, let me know, cutting wheel awaits

Thats murder!!!

I'll give you a normal MPFI intake and a turbo head you can cut up if you wish in exchange for a spider intake

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:10 pm

LOL , no my concerns are that I'm told from overseas that sometimes these manifold sections are warped and don't seal very well when bolted together .

As mentioned previously one of the plenum sections has been flange modified to take a std pattern L MPFI TB .

May as well tell the story of how I ended up with three sort of sets .

Like most I thought they were unobtaenium when I learnt about them .
The first came through Gee here and was the nude one . You don't have to look too hard to realise that the std MPFI L fuel rails are not suitable ...

The second one came via a contact through Brindabella Motorsporp Club web group in Canberra - BMSC .
One of the fellas imported a spider EA82T and discovered that its inlet manifold was not homologated for the class they wanted to rally an RX in so it was of no use to them . I snapped it up because it has all the bits inc injectors rails TB EGR - AND the Vortexes TB to turbo crossover pipe .
They threw in most of the set of polly V belt pulleys as well , and the hard to find Vortex front timing mark plate . You aparently can't see the flywheel marks when speedo manifold is in place .

The third one I got on a complete engine - an Aust spec AWD 87 Vortex Turbo , with the box , the looms , the computer , AFM , header turbo etc etc . This is the engine that was rebuilt and slightly modded for my car , goes in in a few months .
Actually the thing I have only one of is the unique EGR riser pipe from the header to the inlet manifold , could possibly rat up another but they are not exactly a wearing part .

Hoarder , no . I have to keep the SR AWD box because if mine ever went bang where am I going to get parts for it at short notice .

One day the adds will go out but in the mean time I keep the gold .
I think I said early in my time here that I wanted the best factory bits for my RX L EA82T , it'll never be an EJ Turbo but it may get close performace wise to a std Rex because of the lighter package .

Nite all .

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:58 pm

Why named spider ? Spiders are usually equipped with eight legs and called arachnids rather than insects..... the diameter of the throttle plate is larger on these TB compared to EA82 mpfi/turbo by just a few mm and that is really only gonna matter when ? at full trottle in a non turbo?

They look cool, coz you don't see too many, and are getting closer to the good rule of thumb for intakes of the modern world of matching engine cc to inlet manifold volumes.

They also use the old style (is it Bosch) cold start air bypass valve rather than the on top thermostat set up.

I can understand Adrians steptoe tendency

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:36 am

Ok , I'll have to get in a Vortex TB with the calipers to measure its bore size .
I thought I had actually .

In the States there are mobs who fit overside throttle plates to OEM throttlebodies but I'm not sure if anyones done an early Subie one .

A .

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:32 pm

50mm diameter bore on manifold side, measured with steel rule, not verniers

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:48 pm

I was thinking of inside calipers and measure those with the very near calipers .

Cheers A .

If you happen to know the difference I'll see if I can confirm .

nncoolg · Post by **nncoolg** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:22 pm

sounds like its the same as the normal ones then? any comparo?

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:54 am

CORRECTION AHEAD

Disco is correct. Steptoe got it wrong, somehow??

Both are about the 50mm

Good news is I have another 50mm bore TB with same stud pattern as the spider but works same way as normal TB and the shaft for the TPS also looks same to accept the TPS of your ECU !

Do not know what it was off though. The source wanted to keep the TPS but recall it had mitsubshi logo, think it was Lancer. I might just try photo. Also has water ports straight in, straight out. Better also try fitting up TPS before I excite too many....

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:55 am

CORRECTION AHEAD

Disco is correct. Steptoe got it wrong, somehow??

Both are about the 50mm

Good news is I have another 50mm bore TB with same stud pattern as the spider but works same way as normal TB and the shaft for the TPS also looks same to accept the TPS of your ECU !

Do not know what it was off though. The source wanted to keep the TPS but recall it had mitsubshi logo, think it was Lancer. I might just try photo. Also has water ports straight in, straight out. Better also try fitting up TPS before I excite too many....