clutch judder

gazcull · Post by **gazcull** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:01 pm

please help, just getting to the bottom of all my problems on my rs turbo L series, and i've got to the problem of the clutch juddering, when i first got the car it had been sat for a while and the juddering clutch was pretty bad, now i've done a few kms it had improved quite alot with it juddering say 1 in 5 times i pull off, usually pretty slight but some times makes my teeth shake!! i haven't looked at anything so i'm after a few ideas before i go to the step of taking the engine out to have a phyical look at wots going on in there. a few years ago when i owned a few air cooled vw's i had problems with the clutch cable conduit (usually mountings broken) this caused a very similar judder to the one on my scooby, the clutch itself is pretty stiff but i'd think this normal with the bigger clutch on the rs turbo (?), would be grateful for any ideas, it really ruins the driving experience, thanks

rebuilder · Post by **rebuilder** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:03 pm

i dont know much about the RS, can u tell us a bit about the engine n gearbox.
take some photos maybe.

sven '2' · Post by **sven '2'** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:03 am

What gearbox are you running? When it shudders, are you launching hard, or is it random?

Before pulling out the engine or gearbox, check the basics - engine and gearbox mounts. Cable conversion or was the hydraulic RS set up used?

Think also diff, CVs, wheel nuts (yes wheel nuts) etc - all of these are easier to check than pulling the motor.

If all of these are good, suspect clutch failure/failing...

Post by **Alex** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:17 am

warped flywheel?

might just need machining?

rebuilder · Post by **rebuilder** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:59 am

yeh i was pondering over this one last night in my head, giveing it good though.
possibilities in order of likliness.
1. Flywheel uneven (common from overheating and clutch riding)
2. Gearbox input shaft bearings worn, i have this probolem, it causes a 2 free play in the spigot shaft, and if the end of your spigot shaft is worn, and doesnt fit snugly in the spigot bearing (the one in the flywheel) you can get lateral movement which causes one side of the clutch plate to grip further to the outer edge of the flywheel where there is more travel and less on teh other sdie of the flywheel) giving shudder
3. Pressure plate installed unevenly (if this has occured since as far as back as you can remember, then chances are it may be an installation probelm) please dont take offense!
4. Pressure plate springs worn out (usualy happens all aroudn the cuthc so doubt this, and you would feel some clutch slip with this problem)
5. foreign matter between the bell housing and engine block, or bolts connecting the 2 are loose.
unfortunately, nothign can be done outside of the bellhousing.
just check everythign in this list backwards, (5-1)
can anyone add anythign ive forgotten?

gazcull · Post by **gazcull** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:35 pm

as far as i know the gearbox is a standard l series 4wd not sure on the clutch the guy i brought it from said it had a wrx race clutch (?), the cable to me looks like a standard l series, the engine is a 94 rs turbo from a liberty, the car is a 88 l series wagon. i have had a clonk from the left hand front wheel and have found the outer cv and the ball joint to both have play so i'm just in the middle replacing them both, i'll see wot its like after i have finished that job. the warped fly wheel seems the most obvious, the car has seem some series off road action ( and will see some more i hope), thanks for all the ideas really wanna use it, cheers

littlewhiteute · Post by **littlewhiteute** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:55 pm

rebuilder wrote:yeh i was pondering over this one last night in my head, giveing it good though.
possibilities in order of likliness.
1. Flywheel uneven (common from overheating and clutch riding)
2. Gearbox input shaft bearings worn, i have this probolem, it causes a 2 free play in the spigot shaft, and if the end of your spigot shaft is worn, and doesnt fit snugly in the spigot bearing (the one in the flywheel) you can get lateral movement which causes one side of the clutch plate to grip further to the outer edge of the flywheel where there is more travel and less on teh other sdie of the flywheel) giving shudder
3. Pressure plate installed unevenly (if this has occured since as far as back as you can remember, then chances are it may be an installation probelm) please dont take offense!
4. Pressure plate springs worn out (usualy happens all aroudn the cuthc so doubt this, and you would feel some clutch slip with this problem)
5. foreign matter between the bell housing and engine block, or bolts connecting the 2 are loose.
unfortunately, nothign can be done outside of the bellhousing.
just check everythign in this list backwards, (5-1)
can anyone add anythign ive forgotten?

How about oil on the clutch plate, typically transmission input shaft seal, or a really bad rear main seal.

sven '2' · Post by **sven '2'** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:05 pm

gazcull wrote:as far as i know the gearbox is a standard l series 4wd not sure on the clutch the guy i brought it from said it had a wrx race clutch (?), the cable to me looks like a standard l series, the engine is a 94 rs turbo from a liberty, the car is a 88 l series wagon. i have had a clonk from the left hand front wheel and have found the outer cv and the ball joint to both have play so i'm just in the middle replacing them both, i'll see wot its like after i have finished that job. the warped fly wheel seems the most obvious, the car has seem some series off road action ( and will see some more i hope), thanks for all the ideas really wanna use it, cheers

Just cover off the basics before launching into WCS repairs...

rebuilder · Post by **rebuilder** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:07 am

clutch problems Fing suck.
think about it, its in the 3rd most inaccessible part of the car haha.
hey garry, would oil not just make it slip more making it smoother, and reduce shuddder, but just never grip?
or have you experience such an unfortuanate event and witnessed shuddering from it?
if so, that would be an awsome easy to fix situation, u could probably just pour acetone (i think thats the liquid im thinkin of, whatever disolves oil and dries) down the inspection plug and let it drain out the bottom, n u wouldnt have to remove anything, that woudl be sweet as. not sure how the clutch plate would enjoy acetone tho??

gazcull · Post by **gazcull** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:56 pm

well i've replaced the cv joints and ball joint, and the clonk has gone, but the clutch is still the same

, i've decided to have a look at the clutch, i took the intercooler off to have a look at where the clutch cable joins the trust bearing arm and found a bit of a home made arrangement, looks like an old spark plug outer has been used, does anyone think this could cause my clutch judder? i'll try putting up some photos, if not its down to getting to the clutch, any advice, i don't have an engine lifter but i have got ramps and axle stands

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:53 pm

The shuttering will come from the clutch itself (I'm putting money on a shinny flywheel) That "homemade" cltch fork mod would be ok as long as its got lots of anti-seize grease on it.