Weber jetting (sorry) EA82 WARNING LONG POST

[gemery10]

Hi to all, I have had my weber in for about 5000k's and am amazed at the difference in power and driveability. It came out of a 180 B and just happened to have the same jetting as smoovs that was jetted in sydney.

primary main: 140
seconday main: 135
primary air: 160
secondary air: 165
primary idle: 50
secondary idle: 55


It has improved bottom end, excellent midrange and way more top than hitachi, but....when I engage secondaries it feels like the tuning is a bit rich. The note changes to a deep growl but unless I'm high in revs ie above 3500, it seems to choke a bit.
Also with the secondaries fuel seems to drop pretty quick. Now I know this is the nature of the weber and I get great mileage on the primaries. but... my ideal would be to use all of the primaries power (110 in 4th slight incline) and then creep a bit of secondary just to add a bit for the steep hills but not too much.

Basically I think the secondary is overkill at moment but primary is worth more than flat foot old hicrappy

Has anyone worked out the perfect second main jet and air correctors for L series?.

FYI Car has fresh engine with redline filter and 2inch exhaust cat back into turbo muffler and 13's for roaf. Fuel mileage is 8-10L per 100k's

Thanks to anyone who read this far it would be great to get the this weber running as close to efi as possible.

[Smokey]

Gemery10,

I have bought Smoov's car. And I'm getting 12L/100 on PULP and about 13.5L/H on ULP. Thats with reving to 2500-3000 before shifting. Though I do 500 KM weekly to work and back, half or more of that is at 3000 down the M4. Also have 27" tyres on 14" rims, so speedo is a bit out. So I guess the fuel consumption is a little lower than it shows.

What are primary's and secondaries? I'd really like to get fuel consumption down a bit. like under 10 would be nice. Any advice for me? What is jetting and you said that Smoov's webber had already been done???

Thanks for the help.

Smokey.

[gemery10]

Most soob carbs and webers have two butterfly valves for metering air (mainly) The first one called primary and is smaller than the second one(secondary) and operates on most of your driving . ie stop start mild acceleration and highway cruising, basically up to about 2/3 throttle. After about 2/3 throttle you start opening the secondaries. So when you flat foot it both valves are open and all associated fuel/air jets are allowed to throw fuel in as well The weber primary is bigger than the hitachi secondary, therefore when everything is open there is a lot of fuel and air going in.

IMO. the most efficient way to drive a soob with weber is to freely use the primary butterfly and let the revs build to at least 3.5k without engaging secondaries. If I'm happily accelerating to a 4.5k on primary with 50idle and 140 main I don't see the need for a huge butterfly + 140 fuel again to help it that bit more.

The worst thing you can do for fuel consumption is floor it under 3k cause it doesn't have the revs to burn it. Again IMO.

You have exactly the same jets as I posted and its close to stock from redline weber in USA

I think we can get the fuel cons. a bit lower with some experimentation of restricting secondary throttle opening and matching main jets to suit.

hope that helps

[smoov]

Smokey,

I'll have to give you the "subaru basics" 101 course.

economy sounds good Smokey. I had a heavier foot, and got poorer results! (I wasn't worried about economy for the car at the time! It was tuned for maximum reliable power)

gemery - Im afraid that driving technique was the only way to overcome those issues. but, i will ask these questions:

what have you got in terms of:

- spark plug type/gap?
- ignition coil/leads?
- timing?
- type of fuel used?

although the symptoms weren't as bad as you described it with your scenario, I already upgraded the above questions with:

- iridium plugs/1.1mm gap
- MSD Blaster 2 coil/8mm Leads
- 12 Degrees BTDC
- 98 Octane (preferably BP Ultimate)

ultimately, what im getting at, is if you feed it a bigger fatter spark, advance the timing, and run higher octane fuel, you'll find that the fuel being dumped in once the secondaries kick in, will be better utilised.

cheers

alex

[fredsub]

......
- iridium plugs/1.1mm gap
- MSD Blaster 2 coil/8mm Leads
- 12 Degrees BTDC
- 98 Octane (preferably BP Ultimate)

ultimately, what im getting at, is if you feed it a bigger fatter spark, advance the timing, and run higher octane fuel, you'll find that the fuel being dumped in once the secondaries kick in, will be better utilised.

cheers

alex

sorry Alex, burst yur bubble there...IMO (but i'm sure others will back it up)
1) bigger spark helps with preventing mis-fire thats all, once the mixture is fired, that's it, so a weeny spark, so long as it fires the mix is good as too.
2)advance and higher octane go hand in hand, higher octane to prevent pre-detonation,
3)if thats not enough, the more fuel is used as a "wetting agent" and used to cool the combustion charge - it doesn't combust - whilst its compressing
and helps further to stop pre-detonation, and after detonation slows the speed of the combustion.
4)how efficiently the fuel is used is wholely dependent on the fuel ratio and compression (too i think?)
a too rich fuel is exactly that, a proportion of fuel goes out the tail pipe unburnt, the rich side of the F-A doesn't in itself produce the more Hp, it simply assists what does get combusted to burn more slowly hence better torque.
"will be better utilised" ? not in terms of it getting burnt tho


When you go for a tune-up, the shop should put a A-F mixture sensor in the tail pipe,
to check how bad it is.

So if you want to better your fuel costs, my suggestion is
use standard fuel
might have to back off the static advance (most likely)
tune the carb fuel delivery (dunno abt that one, .. carbs..I just adjust numbers on the fuel map)
The L carbwith standard wheels,standard unleaded should do about 7l/100km 7.5-8/100 around town,fully loaded & 4WDing 9-9.5l/100km
so that should be the standard to compare against.
I did used to have the carb ea82 and kept good log books.

Yes the carb L ea82 can be very fuel efficient, unlike what various posts I seen here seem to tell.

[smoov]

fred -

1) bigger spark gap should only be performed once you have an MSD Blaster 2 coil.

Seat of pants experiment

[fredsub]

Alex,

I run a MSD Blaster too, and its driven by a CDI too!!

so i'm not sure if you really understood what I said above?

[gemery10]

Interesting replies,
I have standard coil, ngk plugs, timing 8 deg ish.
Overall I think the weber is heaps better than stock and I would expect that given there is more power than stock, fuel consumption is going to drop a bit. I'm happy enough to drive it more economically but I mainly wondered what jetting other L series owners are using and what mileage they are getting? Reason is, Cameron old posts said cameron had 125 mains in which is a huge drop and he tested it with a flow meter.

so... please tell me what is in your weber

[smoov]

Fred:

Probably I don't. (ignorance is bliss :P) But, my car never misfired running even 1.2mm gap on plugs. Got better economy in fact (ok, slightly!), in conjunction with the other mods i had mentioned.

gemery - try the car on 12 degrees, running a higher octane fuel (95 is a bare essential). performance should increase ever so slightly (performance is proportional to economy if driven with skill & experience)

i managed to squeeze about ~380kms to 50L, with some reverence for the loud pedal.

[Smokey]

Hey guys,

Now im really confused. I don't understand all that stuff yet. I did today drive the car a little differently. I can now see/feel what primary and secondaries are. I had not used secondaries in the 1000km I'd done till today. More power yes, but I don't think it would be worth the extra fuel it sucks. Just better anticipating the traffic flowes and using the declines, lay of the land etc to ones advantage would better suit.

Keep posting people - I'm learning here.

Smokey.

[gemery10]

ok. well smokey,all you need to know for now is the main thing that will help fuel economy is to drive on the primary but when it is warm especially with big tyres don't lug the engine. Change at 3.5k minimum and always downshift to fourth on highway hills (i'm guessing you did anyway or you would have used the secondaries).

Smoov, I have found that higher advance equals higher consumption and pinging in really hot weather with hitachi but might try it sometime. You said yours was tuned for highest and most reliable power, were you given the option of highest economy and a bit more power? can it be done differently? In my experience with motorbike tuning the best economy isn't necessarily the leanest setting.