1.5:1 EA Part Time Lo into EA Full Time

BlackMale · Post by **BlackMale** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:55 pm

Yer thats how i saw it as well (mentioned aboved). Interesting you have a 3.7 (mine is a 3.9). Do you have the lower range gear set already or are you needing to source/locate item?

Subafury · Post by **Subafury** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:47 pm

do u know how to take the box apart? what special tools are needed? when i had an explore of my first one i had to grind 2 bits to get it open

BrennyV · Post by **BrennyV** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:49 pm

Subafury wrote:do u know how to take the box apart? what special tools are needed? when i had an explore of my first one i had to grind 2 bits to get it open

that was 1/2 my point of the thread :P dildo

Matatak · Post by **Matatak** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:19 pm

ill figure it out if someone gives me a spare box....yes a spare EA FTAWD

but i do seem to remember some sorta notnormal tool is needed.

PeeJay · Post by **PeeJay** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:01 pm

To take the box apart just undo all the bolts on the front housing, remove the pins that hold the two halves together, and tap with a hammer (and possibly a flat screwdriver) a few times to get it apart. Oh, and remove the low range lever first. That half of the box should just slide up and off.

There was a bit of a trick to removing the reduction gears from the housing, but no special tools were needed, except perhaps circlip pliers.

There are a few pics of the innards of the AWD box here: showthread.php?t=7576

BrennyV · Post by **BrennyV** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:28 am

Sweet Peejay all this info is appreciated.
Need as much help when it comes to this, always been too scared to play with the internals of a gearbox. Ill try and build up all the info then try and smash it all out (taking photos along the way)
Thanks

Brendan

Matatak · Post by **Matatak** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:36 pm

also need to know wt people use to reseal them...

aviation cement ?

PeeJay · Post by **PeeJay** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:41 pm

Oil resistant silicon - I've used both the red and grey tubes that Supacheap sell.

Subafury · Post by **Subafury** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:02 pm

yes brenny i know - i was bumping the topic as there wasnt info on it until now. btw i also have a thread with on the innards of an L gbox if it helps.
ur a dildo.

Matatak · Post by **Matatak** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:12 pm

BrennyV wrote:Sweet Peejay all this info is appreciated.
Need as much help when it comes to this, always been too scared to play with the internals of a gearbox. Ill try and build up all the info then try and smash it all out (taking photos along the way)
Thanks

Brendan

ill help ya brennyboy.

well get her done easily

u can practice on my dead MY box first if u shall like

BrennyV · Post by **BrennyV** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:28 pm

might pay to do that. the donor box will be a good tester also

might pull it out this w/e

BrennyV · Post by **BrennyV** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:26 pm

hey peejay u got any more pix mate? gonna start plotting out my plan of attack

PeeJay · Post by **PeeJay** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:32 pm

Nope, sorry. Once you get the two boxes apart It'll be obvious what you have to do.

BrennyV · Post by **BrennyV** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:43 pm

true, i think a nice clean big tarp and heaps of photos

wagonist · Post by **wagonist** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:30 pm

Ok, I'm going to dig up this old thread.

I've got an Aus spec part time manual 4wd gearbox with dual range

I've also got a JDM Vortex single range full-time 4wd gearbox with centre diff lock.

I want to make a dual range full-time 4wd gearbox with diff lock.

So I need to use the input shaft(s) plus low range auxiliary shaft & front casing from the dual range box
Plus the front diff, rear housing and centre diff + output shaft from the single range box.

But the question is about the gear ratios.
Can the input shaft from one box mate to the output shaft from the other, or am I going to need to be pulling gears off the shafts to make sure I keep matched ones together?

And with removing the rear housings. How difficult is this?

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:15 pm

wagonist wrote:So I need to use the input shaft(s) plus low range auxiliary shaft & front casing from the dual range box
Plus the front diff, rear housing and centre diff + output shaft from the single range box.

Yep, that sounds about right - with the diff you need the diff pinion shaft too - this is where it could get tricky between the PT and AWD gearbox setups, see below

wagonist wrote:But the question is about the gear ratios.
Can the input shaft from one box mate to the output shaft from the other, or am I going to need to be pulling gears off the shafts to make sure I keep matched ones together?

I don't know if you can mix and match the upper and lower layshaft gears - it's always best practise to keep the upper and lower gearsets as a pair even if the ratios are the same with another set - they wear in together as a pair, swapping them around could create some noise in operation.

What you should be able to do - and this is where the PT and AWD gearboxes could be different, it's something I've wanted to check out for some time now - the PT and AWD pinion shafts *should* be interchangeable. This means that you'll be able to swap the pinion shafts around.

BUT if they're not interchangeable you'll probably need to get a Dual Range EJ AWD gearbox and use it's upper and lower layshafts, swap the low range for the good L series one.

wagonist wrote:And with removing the rear housings. How difficult is this?

The AWD should be easy - remove the top cover plate, unscrew the 10mm bolt that's on the selector shaft (doesn't have to come all the way out), rotate the selector shaft so the forks are clear of the gear selector gates, then remove the rear housing. It *should* be that easy.

The PT4wd one. It's tricky. Remove the top cover plate, where the gasket goes there's a pin that holds a shaft inplace, remove that and you should be able to work out all the tricky little balls and springs that are in there from this point. Pay careful attention if you want to put it back together - it's pretty complicated but easy to do if you remember how to put it back together.
Then it's the same little bolt on the selector shaft that needs attention before you pull off the rear housing.

When you put the gearbox back together, make sure you've got the selector fork in the gear selector gates and that you can select the gears before you seal it all up

Cheers

Bennie

wagonist · Post by **wagonist** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:58 pm

Thanks Bennie.

I daresay with the shafts, I'll use the input shaft itself, but swap over the gearsets as necessary to keep them matched. This would be 1st & 2nd (& reverse too I think) from the dual range (as they're part of the input shaft itself) & 4th & 5th from the centre diff lock box (again because they're part of the output shaft).

Wouldn't the drive pinion for the centre diff come from the output shaft? Which is needed from the centre diff lock box.

You ask about the pinion shafts between the 2 boxes. Which one are you referring to? The pinion shaft for the front diff from the centre diff is longer than the part time version. So they're not interchangeable. Which means that I'm probably stuck with a 3.7 diff ratio.

Another problem is the rear housing for the single range, centre diff lock box doesn't have provision for the dual range rod to come back out the front.

The main reason I'm looking at doing this is whole conversion is that I can't find a centre console piece from either a FWD GL sedan or FWD or single range 4wd wagon. And if I do, it's going to be the wrong colour as I'm installing a full RX turbo interior.

On top of this, I've heard that vacuum system for the centre diff lock can be troublesome. I had a thought about using the low range lever hooked up to a cable to lock the centre diff instead.
I'm a bit miffed as to how to get a push/pull cable (ie thick) to work in this situation. The Liberty/Impreza/Forester lever rotates the opposite direction.

Using a fulcrum in the trans tunnel might work, but I've already got a tailshaft, exhaust & 2 handbrake cables in there (I'm running Honda rear calipers to get a rear handbrake)

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:15 pm

wagonist wrote:Wouldn't the drive pinion for the centre diff come from the output shaft? Which is needed from the centre diff lock box.

Yes and no - the pinion shaft passes through the lower gearset (or layshaft)... you'll see how it all works when you pull the gearbox apart

wagonist wrote:You ask about the pinion shafts between the 2 boxes. Which one are you referring to? The pinion shaft for the front diff from the centre diff is longer than the part time version. So they're not interchangeable. Which means that I'm probably stuck with a 3.7 diff ratio.

While the pinion shafts may be a different size, what I'm actually talking about is ability to remove the pinion shaft from the lower gearsets in the PT4wd gearbox, I'm unsure as to wether or not it can be done - I didn't check it out when I had my PT box apart for the EJ conversion. If you can remove the PT4wd pinion shaft from the lower gearset like you can in the EJ AWD gearbox (or the fulltime 4wd L series gearbox) then it's simple swapping of the pinion shafts for you to get what you want - a dual range AWD gearbox with locking centre diff.

Yes you are stuck with the 3.7 ratio unless you get creative...

wagonist wrote:Another problem is the rear housing for the single range, centre diff lock box doesn't have provision for the dual range rod to come back out the front.

That's because they didn't use the rods system, at least not through the rear housing of the gearbox. You need a rod that goes directly from the low range lever to the in-cab lever. Or retro fit the EJ cable to the L series lever in the cab. Or fit the EJ console to the L series to make it all look neat and easy to do... But the RX interior might get in the way of the EJ console.

wagonist wrote:I've heard that vacuum system for the centre diff lock can be troublesome. I had a thought about using the low range lever hooked up to a cable to lock the centre diff instead.
I'm a bit miffed as to how to get a push/pull cable (ie thick) to work in this situation. The Liberty/Impreza/Forester lever rotates the opposite direction.

First I've heard about the vacuum system being troublesome - what this might mean is that you have to make sure it's locked in before you go offroading. The vacuum diaphragm is there to put gentle pressure on the lock until the dog clutch lines up, at which point it'll slide straight in and could possibly make a noise when it does.

The cable would be fiddly. A solenoid would probably work better with a simple switch setup in the cab to activate the lock and dis-activate the lock...

wagonist wrote:Using a fulcrum in the trans tunnel might work, but I've already got a tailshaft, exhaust & 2 handbrake cables in there (I'm running Honda rear calipers to get a rear handbrake)

I'm not sure what a fulcrum is

How hard was the honda rear calipers to fit and which model were they from?

Cheers

Bennie

wagonist · Post by **wagonist** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:30 pm

The factory dual range, full time 4wd box with diff lock did use a rod to engage the low range (I had one of these 15 years ago) but only has one detent. The 4wd/lo range lever sits in the middle position (ie 4wd position on the part time) in the console.

By fulcrum I meant because the lever hinges forward, have it then pull/push a cable backwards, then use a lever to transfer that movement back forward again.

For the rear brakes, I'm using the calipers off a early 90s Legend (might be able to use Intergra also) which fit onto the Subaru carrier using Subaru pads & subaru rotors. These calipers actuate the standard caliper much like the L series front caliper works.
ie if you've got 4wd, you need to already have the full factory 4wd rear disc brake setup.
I've got custom cables (3.5m long!!!) made up with the L series lever end & Honda other end. So they go forward then turn around inside the trans tunnel.
Where I actually see the biggest use would be for using a FWD sedan/Vortex in motorkhanas. The disc brake rear end off a FWD vortex is easy to find.

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:38 pm

wagonist wrote:The factory dual range, full time 4wd box with diff lock did use a rod to engage the low range (I had one of these 15 years ago) but only has one detent. The 4wd/lo range lever sits in the middle position (ie 4wd position on the part time) in the console.

And where's the dedent ball located? Is it in the selector fork like the EJ's? I'm yet to crack mine open and get to know it better...

Interesting about the honda calipers. Dunno if I really need the handbrake on the rear calipers, but I would like to drop those front PITA to twist in calipers!

Cheers

Bennie