Diesel Particulate Filter - DPF

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NachaLuva
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Post by NachaLuva » Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:59 pm

Good work ghostgum

Next is to work out how to do a manual regen
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pitrack_1
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EOBD-II parameters

Post by pitrack_1 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:10 pm

Great, clever work Ghostgum.

I was obviously too dumb understand things when I read them a couple of years ago on the subdiesel site, and only just picked up the baton again recently. I needed your byte-by-byte "how to"! Must say, my head was spinning at the time with the different standards, comms buses, etc. Unable to comprehend which was which on what.

Should have been able to do that myself (query all the parameters) and work out which one was the regen counter but was only working my way up to things, intended to try this weekend/tomorrow on the way to work. Wish I'd tried now!

I'll give it a go with your parameters either with wOBD or OBDWiz or scanmaster ELM or whatever (on my laptop) and let people know.

I find wOBD (obdiicrazy) the simplest and most basic for straight logging and setup, I'll have to see if it will work with the EOBD-II parameters you've found.

One parameter I have found linked to a regen (or something similar) is the throttle position 0111, normally ~87.5% but drops to 5% under regen and progressively tries to open again under acceleration. I've logged 5 of these in ~270kms of freeway (110km/h GPS speed) running Sydney-Canberra- posted elsewhere.

If this all works it may justify (or unjustify!) getting a Tactrix.
Patrick
Ex- 2010 Forester Diesel

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ghostgum
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Post by ghostgum » Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:12 am

I'm using a Scantool "OBDLink MX Bluetooth" plugged into the OBD port on the car. I used Windows OBDwiz software included with this to get a dump of the extended PID values. The Android OBDLink doesn't seem to support custom PIDs, and is restricted to Scantool adapters. The Android Torque Pro app supports Custom PIDS and third party ELM327 adapters.

Torque Pro has a list of adapters that work, and issues with some cheap knockoffs.
http://torque-bhp.com/wiki/Bluetooth_Adapters

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EB#
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Post by EB# » Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:55 am

Scotty wrote:Hi, As a guy that has a 2010 diesel Premium Outback and done 196,000km. I will be happily buying another one. I have had the dpf light come on a few times and after doing the 'burn off' has fixed it......
Nice write-up there Scotty. It is good to hear a positive report!

My guess is that the numbers of DPF issues in the overall scheme of things may perhaps be small and a few of those would make it to comment on this forum. The diesel option is still under consideration for me. My guess is also that Subaru may, over time, improve on certain problems as they gain more experience in the diesel game.

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NachaLuva
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Post by NachaLuva » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:25 pm

EB# wrote:My guess is also that Subaru may, over time, improve on certain problems as they gain more experience in the diesel game.
I'm sure they will. Its the first time anyone has done a boxer diesel so there's sure to be teething issues...
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Bushranger
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Post by Bushranger » Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:47 pm

Subaru can go stuff emselves!

I'll never buy another again and will happily warn others away from them for life.

It's not so much the cars that are the problem, it's the service and after sales support.

Check out this thread - it sumarrises how Subaru Australia operates
http://www.subaruxvforum.com/forum/prob ... s-133.html

Deny deny deny, ignore ignore ignore.

I got rid of my diesel forester. 5 times in 14 months addition to 2 scheudled services it was back at stealership for repairs, all DPF related. The last time they argued they were not going to fix it until I agreed to pay, trying to tell me that anything to do with the DPF isn't under warranty...... I simply told them to fix it and have it ready by this afternoon or sll hell will break loose. They fixed it. I sold it a month later.

They also tried to pull the "you didn't get it serviced here so your not covered" haha, clowns.

Couldn't be happier to see the back of it, well more so Subaru, so glad I will never have to deal with them again.

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Subyroo
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Post by Subyroo » Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:22 am

Bushranger wrote:Subaru can go stuff emselves!

I'll never buy another again and will happily warn others away from them for life.

Couldn't be happier to see the back of it, well more so Subaru, so glad I will never have to deal with them again.
We have owned both a 2001 RX Liberty and a 2003 XS Forester and loved them both to bits, but come trade-in time the BS about Subaru's holding their value is not reflected by the valuation from Subaru Dealers.
Their valuations are nothing short of humiliation.

No more Subaru's here either, we too have moved on also.
Peter

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steptoe
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Post by steptoe » Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:26 pm

Subyroo wrote:We have owned both a 2001 RX Liberty and a 2003 XS Forester and loved them both to bits, but come trade-in time the BS about Subaru's holding their value is not reflected by the valuation from Subaru Dealers.
Their valuations are nothing short of humiliation.

No more Subaru's here either, we too have moved on also.
Surely you were directed to a disclaimer of past performances may not be reflected or guaranteed in the future ?

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ktmtragic
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Post by ktmtragic » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:49 pm

Dealers only make small margins on new vehicles so try and make up on the trade in's. Sell privately is the way to go.

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Neeek
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Post by Neeek » Sat Mar 08, 2014 3:24 pm

Thought I'd add the last "real world" experience from us - the time has come to part with the Outback.

Since it was last at the dealership being repaired under warranty around Christmas 2013, we’ve had no DPF warning light come on. However we have had the odd vibration coming back to haunt us, both blatting down the freeway and even in town; that’s not good.

It says to me that it’s only a matter of time before the light starts flashing at us again, and we’re back to square one. Although this time, we’d be out of the warranty period and would no doubt have a fight on our hands to have it repaired at no cost to us, despite it being a recurrence of an existing problem that the car had pretty much from the day we bought it.

It rather takes the shine off owning a car when you know something’s going to go wrong. So the new (very happy) owner picked it up yesterday. I only hope that the car behaves for him, although I’m pretty sure that he and his wife will use the car for city driving 90% of the time. I’ve never bitten my tongue harder – I wonder how it’ll be before they discover the joys of DPF-equipped diesel ownership…

I have my fingers crossed for them, and in the meantime we will build a new relationship with a Volvo XC70 we picked up yesterday, and try to excuse its savage drinking problem. We decided not to go with a petrol Outback in the end – they’re just too damn slow with the auto box.

So it looks like that’s the end of our time with Subarus after three cars, two of which I hasten to add were petrol models and we loved to bits. Pity, but it only takes one bad experience to put the final nail in the coffin.

I hope Subaru get their collective shit together and get better at the whole diesel game, I really do. If they don't, I'm sure we won't be the last long-term (ish) customers to be turned off the brand.

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pitrack_1
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Blinkety-blinks

Post by pitrack_1 » Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:41 am

It was a rude shock this morning to get into the car and face a blinking DPF light from startup!

I've reported on this elsewhere; to follow on from Ghostgum's good work here I have some data below to confirm what Ghostgum has seen:

I use a generic Bluetooth ELM327 type adaptor and use the program wOBD on a WinXP laptop. It's not a flashy graphical setup and that's what I like about it- it's simple and logs text quickly.
Friday, March 14, 2014 01:25 AM
Header: 686AF1 Mode:22-22 Pid:114D-1157 Suffix:
V 22114D 36 [6] 54
V 22114E 0A [.] 10
V 221153 00 [.] 0
V 221154 00 [.] 0
V 221155 03 [.] 3
V 221156 00 44 [.D] 68
V 221157 00 EB [..] 235
Scan Completed
Events(s):11
No Data:0
Invalid:4
Zero:2
The 22114E parameter has returned (hex) 0A which equals (decimal) 10 - the bit after the [.]. This is apparently in % and above 10% will cause the DPF light to blink, so it's sitting on the limit.

I've now got a new Nexus 7 (Android tablet) w/ Torque Lite (currently). Will soon get the full blown Torque but I need to be able to get used to its setup- too graphical for my liking!
Patrick
Ex- 2010 Forester Diesel

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ktmtragic
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Post by ktmtragic » Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:36 pm

Inchcape Finance is Subaru Au and so I can only assume they are screwing the factory for all it is worth and maximizing their return, at the expense of the customer. Never heard of a finance mob doing the right thing yet

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drwormy
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Post by drwormy » Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:23 pm

Would be nice to also log exhaust gas temperatures around the DPF.

Seems the OBD protocols exist:

http://subdiesel.wordpress.com/generic/ ... ls/obd-ii/

But ive had no luck figuring the addressing out (using Cheapo ELM327 and Torque Pro).

Anyone?

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ghostgum
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Post by ghostgum » Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:21 pm

drwormy,

I just tried Torque Pro with my Outback. The subdiesel page says:
0x3C: Catalyst Temperature Bank 1, Sensor 1 (→ Exhaust Gas Temperature at Catalyst Inlet)
0x3E: Catalyst Temperature Bank 1, Sensor 2 (→ Exhaust Gas Temperature at DPF Inlet)

Using Torque Pro I started to add a digital display and it listed a set of known parameters (by name, not PID). These two catalyst temperatures are listed by name, but they don't get highlighted in green, which means that the car doesn't support them. Subdiesel were mostly working with older Euro4 diesel cars. I suspect the parameters you want are probably in the extended 0x22 set, which is manufacturer specific.

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ghostgum
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Post by ghostgum » Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:58 pm

Pitrack_1,

Given that the Soot Accumulation Ratio (22114D) is now 54%, it could be that it was over 80% and hence flashed the DPF light. While driving it started a regeneration, but didn't complete causing the SAR to reduce, but not drop to zero.

I have observed the SAR figure during a couple of regenerations. When the SAR reaches 65% and the car is working hard enough (70km/h city driving seems to be enough), it will start the cycle. First two minutes or so is heating up and the SAR doesn't change. Then the SAR starts to drop, progressively reducing faster over the next 10 minutes until the cycle finishes. The SAR is under 10% when the cycle finishes and drops to 0% during the next few minutes, so I presume it is still continuing to burn off a bit while cooling.

According to subdiesel the cause for high oil dilution ratio is lots of active regen cycles, or lots of aborted active regen cycles (because the car was stopped before it finished the cycle). I wish one of subdiesels mods was standard on Subarus - they made the DPF light do a double flash during active regeneration, so you could keep driving until it finished, however this would alarm people.

My car has averaged one regeneration per 400km. Oil Dilution Ratio is currently 2% with 5 active regenerations since the last service (when ODR is reset to 0%).

Watching the Soot Accumulation Ratio while driving is interesting (best done by having someone read it out, or having the phone/tablet in a suitable holder on the dash). Accelerating from an intersection increases SAR by about 1%. It drops a little while driving at 60km/h. It looks like it isn't a particularly accurate measure of soot accumulation. Accelerating hard (i.e. making the turbo work) increases SAR by more than a gentle acceleration. e.g 3%. If you do gentle driving, then the SAR doesn't increase as fast as when you plant your foot on the accelerator.

My understanding is that soot is produced by a diesel engine when the is fuel to air ratio is too high. This occurs at low revs, and while accelerating. Even though the turbo pushes in extra air, it appears that the car injects lots more fuel so it still produces soot. even at 2500+rpm. Driving between 1800-2500rpm with gentle acceleration seems to minimise SAR increase.

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steptoe
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Post by steptoe » Sun Mar 23, 2014 7:29 am

While at the service and spares counter of a Subaru dealership, think it is twice now, I've heard the reception guy giving the customer a plastic funnel top bottle of about 250ml , maybe 500ml of a fuel additive and instructing to add it to the fuel in three months time, and not now as they have added same with the service.

Grey plastic bottle.

Words also eavesdropped were something along the lines of the filters not made locally and saves them blocking up with carbon.

Is this some sort of Diesel fuel additive to help the Diesel Subies with DPF problems, or is eavesdropping a bad thing :) ?

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drwormy
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Post by drwormy » Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:46 pm

ghostgum wrote: The required codes were found at
http://subdiesel.wordpress.com/generic/ ... ed-obd-ii/
Ghostgum,

Thanks for the reply. Actually I thought you'd managed to do something really clever (or not; owning my ignorance here) and transcode the addresses given on the RomRaider Logger Definitions:

http://subdiesel.wordpress.com/ecu-defi ... finitions/

into OBD-land. Now i look again at the page you linked and realised that the "W" line is the written code (ie PID), and the "R" line is an eg response. Is that where you got the addresses for logging? (as well as the nice work on finding the regen count)

BTW - my regen count is 376 (assuming the 2nd last byte is x 256) which would mean a regen on average every 288 kms. I do two 30-40 min (Peninsula link) freeway drives each day at 104 km/hr* (=110km/hr on speedo, 2000 rpm in 6th). Since ive started logging i can see the Soot % rise constantly along this trip; ive tried doing it once of twice in 5th, but it also seems to rise, qualitatively in a similar fashion.

* Ive not been booked for 4+ km/hr in 100,000 kms past many known speed cameras.

Now mine is out of warranty im very tempted to fix the DPF issue altogeather, but i dont know anyone who has done so (or is willing to admit it in a public forum). Oh, of course i mean trade in for an Evoque ;)

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pitrack_1
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SAR and ODR

Post by pitrack_1 » Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:48 am

Ghostgum,

thanks again for your work.
ghostgum wrote:Given that the Soot Accumulation Ratio (22114D) is now 54%, it could be that it was over 80% and hence flashed the DPF light. While driving it started a regeneration, but didn't complete causing the SAR to reduce, but not drop to zero.
Dealer last week confirmed it was the Oil Dilution Ratio (ODR)- and reset. There had been excessive numbers of regens I could feel. I could also feel that it was not regenning (ugh!) when the lamp stopped flashing or before. The vehicle is also still 5000km from the next service (at 95k). Wonder if ODR was reset properly at the last service...

Thought the SAR also gave a steady DPF light (not seen) before flashing DPF light at a higher level (subdiesel's pages).
ghostgum wrote:I have observed the SAR figure during a couple of regenerations...
Next task for me! Haven't set up my logging parameter file appropriately yet (program's a bit finicky, esp. when cramped up in a driver's seat).

Dealer thought the ODR was a separate issue to the power loss/lag- I think they're related and ODR may have caused by/been related to the power loss/lag + excessive regens. At any rate, both issues have recently been addressed- my details elsewhere.
Patrick
Ex- 2010 Forester Diesel

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ktmtragic
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Post by ktmtragic » Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:01 pm

Google DPF delete

Autoscan

Post by Autoscan » Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:45 pm

We can force regenerate your boxer diesel DPF
At your place and are close to a permanent fix
For this problem, we can also force regenerate
After the soot content has passed 135% without
Removal of the DPF. http://www.autoscan.net.au

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