Alfa engines and Subaru

johnarentz · Post by **johnarentz** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 1:52 pm

A mate of mine was trying to tell me that some Sube motors were developed from an Alfa design and that dropping a Sube motor into an Alfa (eg 33) is a comon conversion.

Is that right?

Suba · Post by **Suba** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 2:15 pm

Well I guess that they are the same as in you can get a six and a four from both manufactures , I think thats about all that is the same thogh .

Mike.

johnarentz · Post by **johnarentz** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:21 pm

Suba wrote:Well I guess that they are the same as in you can get a six and a four from both manufactures , I think thats about all that is the same thogh .

Mike.

These saddos on a British Alfa site swear that the 2 litre Sube motors were designed and built as a result of a licence agreement with Alfa...sounded sus to me but they are adamant. Anyway it seems that they have a fair bit of success sticking the 2 litre sube motors under the bonnets of Alfa 33's 8O

Suba · Post by **Suba** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:35 pm

I guess that it's not just Subi owners that think our engines are the best

.

Mike.

tim_81coupe · Post by **tim_81coupe** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 7:39 pm

The Alfa 33 does indeed use a 4 cylinder Boxer motor.

But I think this is very similar to the stuff the VW blokes are always on about. At one time or another there might have been a contract between the two companies regarding design, but realistically if Subaru had to buy the rights to build a motor from Alfa then surely there would be compatible parts.

The real question I suppose is did Alfa buy the rights to the boxer design from VW?

32ford · Post by **32ford** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 9:04 pm

sube engines seem to be owe much more to Borgward from germany than to alfa romeo

on the south african borgward site there is a picture of the Borgward Arabella engine, with this description
"1959 Borgward Arabella flat-four Engine - was later adapted for used in the 1968 Subaru"
see it at
http://www.dyna.co.za/cars/borgward.htm

smoov · Post by **smoov** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:14 am

i have seen an EJ20T in an alfa 33. Silly really, all it did was wheelspin! :P (didnt get to see the working of it though...)

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:47 am

Here are a couple of pictures of an alfa boxer
http://www.hbpsystemsplc.co.uk/engine.htm

I found this page from a link on the USMB about running dual carbs on an ea81/82 engine on a custom manifold.
http://www.ultimatesubaru.net/forum/sho ... hp?t=53306

Gannon.

MUDRAT · Post by **MUDRAT** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:44 pm

The early model 1400cc pushrod motor used the same dies that Borgwards were pressed from, as far as I'm aware that's the only similarity.

I reckon they're totally different from VW motors.

subanator · Post by **subanator** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:39 pm

Yeah there is a similarity with Alfa's and Subaru's......just look at the current frontal design on the Impreza's to see how they resemble an Alfa

MUDRAT · Post by **MUDRAT** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:32 am

Same bloody designer. I think they're pumping a dry well there.

kwijmbo · Post by **kwijmbo** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:21 am

i actually had a friend who had one of these beasties. had an alfa 33 wagon. actually went pretty hard. From what I remember, it was actually had dual carb, down draught dellortos.

If my memory serves me correctly, you could actually get these little cars in 1.3L, 1.5L and 1.7L. Then there was the mates model. the famous 33V 16V QV.

It was a 95kw, 1.7L, 16 valve boxer with bosch fuel injection and yes, AWD! that thing hammered. I think official specs was 0-100 in about 8 seconds.

Was a few years ago, but yeah my friend had some work done to this thing, and i tell you, it moved! That's why I couldn't understand why my 1.8L ea81 was so shit in comparison! But then again it was much newer, and imported so it was tuned for a country with decent fuel.

Anyway, just thought i'd take a trip down memory lane. ahhh, 16 again!

Paul

GTlegs · Post by **GTlegs** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:17 pm

At the end of the day, its like saying that a BMW 4 cylinder is the same as a Lada 4 cylinder.

The engine configuration between the two motors is completely different, they just share the same 'style'

subanator · Post by **subanator** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:37 pm

GTlegs wrote:At the end of the day, its like saying that a BMW 4 cylinder is the same as a Lada 4 cylinder.

You mean a Lada engine is like a Fiat engine, yes almost the same but.......
Stick a Lancia head and a turbo on the Fiat and get one kick ass motor, a regular racing mod. This also has been done in a Lada Niva in NZ.

smoov · Post by **smoov** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:25 pm

taking it a wee bit far now, aren't we??

subanator · Post by **subanator** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 12:16 am

Sorry, a bit off topic rant there

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 4:19 pm

dare I ask why the big time ($350,000) rally subes run Cosworth cast and built boxer engines and not ones made by Subaru ??

tim_81coupe · Post by **tim_81coupe** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:35 pm

jono wrote:dare I ask why the big time ($350,000) rally subes run Cosworth cast and built boxer engines and not ones made by Subaru ??

Haven't heard that one. Evidence?

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 1:04 pm

evidence ?

I'm sorry. I thought it was well known !

I spoke to the drivers of car #72 in the rally of canberra rounds, he wrote one off in the weeks before, sponsored by shooters, I don't think the budget would stretch to another if he blew it

A fella told me they were cosworth cast and built ten years ago and the story don't seem to have changed

the public not been misled just not told. it's like holden using 9 inch diffs in their commodores for years because they did not have strong enough diffs themselves

smoov · Post by **smoov** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:03 pm

news to me also.

i thought cosworth only dealt with ford motors.

wouldn't a cosworth flat motor be a more desireable item then to have in possesion under the bonnet of a subaru street car?

just never heard of a cosworth built one, tis all.