Rallying, what to build, and some other ideas.

Phizinza · Post by **Phizinza** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:40 pm

Ok, so I have a 89 Brumby, its got 2" lift, some 27's, a EA81 dual carb, rollbar, bullbar, blahblah, hmm. And now I am also coming into a bit of money, maybe $5000.

Before I got my subie I wanted do kit one out for rallying. Then when I got it, it had the lift kit installed and I started looking into offroading. So now I have headed completely at the offroad side and I don't think I would want to change all my mods to make it a rally ute.

So, my idea is: Set the Brumby up with enough power to tow a car on a trailer (would a 2.5 be ok? Or should I go for a H6?) Buy myself a old EA81 sedan and put the EA81DC in it. Buy some better Suspension, wheels, and throw in a rollcage. Then have myself a Sedan for the track, Ute for towing and offroading and onroading.

So I figure the costs should be around this, please correct me if you think I am wrong. EJ25 or EZ30 $800 to 1400. Old sedan, $400. Suspension or the rally sedan, $800. Wheels and tyres or the sedan, $800. Rollcage, well I am unsure if I can make this myself or get someone to make it. I have heard it would cost $8k for a pro full body rollcage, but I think I could get away with less then $400 if I do it myself.

So, thats about $4000... What do you think? I guess it always costs a fair bit to enter a comp, but by then I should be earning enough to pay for that, and repairs.

MUDRAT · Post by **MUDRAT** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:34 pm

Budget $5K for an EJ25 conversion. 8 to 10 for an EZ30.

Phizinza · Post by **Phizinza** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:00 pm

Why do you say that? I've seen EJ22's with wiring for $800. What makes the 25 so much more? After all, I am going to fit it all myself.

MUDRAT · Post by **MUDRAT** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:09 pm

I think you'll find there's a lot more to fitting an EJ motor into an MY series than bolting it up and plugging it in.

You should have a read of the "Conversions, Modifications and Performance" forum.

MUDRAT · Post by **MUDRAT** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:12 pm

You should also check if your Brumby can legally tow a car trailer and car.

Phizinza · Post by **Phizinza** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:17 pm

Right... So I need a fuel pump, adapter plate, flywheel mods, and exhaust. Anything else I would need (that will "cost"?) I really can't see, if your doing it your self, what costs so much... I have been looking at a EJ conversion for over 6 months now, and have done a fair bit of research on USMB. Please Explain...

MUDRAT · Post by **MUDRAT** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:52 pm

This is just what you should budget:

EJ25: $2,500
Engine mounts: $ 200
Loom +Acc: $ 500
Chassis Mods: $ 200
New Clutch: $ 200
Fuel Pump: $ 120
Fuel Acc: $ 100
Adaptor Plate: $ 500
Flywheel: $ 150
Radiator +Acc: $ 500
Exhaust: $ 500
Incidentals: $ 150
_________
TOTAL: $5,620 + ADR Compliance

Some things will be cheaper and some things will be more expensive.

MUDRAT · Post by **MUDRAT** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:57 pm

BTW: USMB has a lot of information on it . . . it also has a lot of shit. Remember that a lot of what you read on there, while appropriate for the USA, is completely unapplicable here.

Phizinza · Post by **Phizinza** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:01 pm

I see a few things in there that won't be nessaray as far as I can see. But I get your point. I will look into how much I can get the parts for. I've seen wrecked lib's for less then $3k and they have all the EJ parts. I don't think you can say there is a deffiant amount for the mod. Anyway, I'm looking into prices now. I think I will follow Subarino and do a cheap plate, and I will be able to weld most of my own exhaust, blah, blah blah. Anyway, leave it there. What else do others think of the idea, lets just leave the thoughts of the EJ swap out for now. Thanks for the help mudrat.

vidler · Post by **vidler** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:03 pm

if you want to fit an EJ25 in the brumby, im pretty sure you'll have to cut and weld the chassis rails to make room for it... i know the ej22's fit in an MY model but im not sure on the ej25's

BaronVonChickenPants · Post by **BaronVonChickenPants** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:14 pm

You can use an unmodified EJ flywheel, Rising Sun Steve (among others I'm sure) knows the combination to use.

This is what I'd be using if I was using the EA box with an EJ motor.

Jordan.

tim_81coupe · Post by **tim_81coupe** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:53 pm

Phizinza you astound me with yet another post highlighting your skills as a key basher. Mudrat has made a perfectly good list there of points to consider, each one entirely necessary. He also has done an EJ conversion - so he knows what he's talking about. I feel he has also gone a bit lean on the dollars there, so optimistically speaking for an EJ25 swap you are in for at least $5500, by my reckoning you'd be closer to $8000.
Why is the turbo option not in the list? For an MY I can't see why you'd want to go to the trouble of fitting an EJ25 when for less butchery a turbo EJ will get in there. Plus it will tow heaps better.
I did my EJ20G conversion myself - and it cost heaps more then than it would for me to do another one now. Classic Matrix line applies here - there's a difference in knowing the path and walking the path. You can sit at your computer all day long and read every page on Ausubaru and the USMB and still it won't prepare you fully for "the mod".
BVCP is right too, there's a much better clutch setup to be had using a standard EJ flywheel.

But enough of the EJ stuff - how serious are you into this rallying stuff? Me and my dad are talking about going into it some time, most likely in a 180B or a 1600 Datto. The car club we'll be going through has one class for AWD/4WD vehicles - so if we were to campaign a 4WD MY we'd be competing against Evo's and WRX's. With the Datto the heaviest competition would be from Escorts and other Datsuns. I reckon you should have a good look into your local rallying scene, attend a few club meetings and have a good talk with the members & competitors. Thats the best way to get a feel for the sport and an insight into how much it will cost you.

$5k on the rally car alone should get you in there nicely. And at lower club levels there's no reason the car can't be street registered, voiding the need for the tow car.

PeeJay · Post by **PeeJay** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:26 pm

I've often considered entering in the Excel series, cheap fwd cars to bash up sounds like fun!!

As for the EJ conversion prices:
EJ20G + EA 5sp into RX turbo

$2400 - 94 GT Legacy front cut (anyone want an auto box?)
$500 - Radiator
$100 - Adaptor plate + bits
$200 - new coil packs
$60 - hoses
?? - Thermo fan when I find one

I think that was all.

My brother's was even better:

$1700 - 96 WRX Engine + gearbox + diff + tailshaft + front suspension
$50 - Air flow meater
$50 - Air filter
$60 - Hoses
$250 - New exhaust
?? - Thermo fan

MUDRAT · Post by **MUDRAT** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:26 pm

That's some good advice about the rally car there. Subarus are good cars, but you'll probably end up better with an old Corolla or Datsun.

Hey what's the final drive ratio on that Auto Paul?

WombatRacing · Post by **WombatRacing** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:50 pm

Just abit more on the rally car thing. you will need the rollcage to be a CAMs approved one. you might be able to get a cage through Bond Roll Cages to suit. Also with the engine you can only run what the car model type came out with. if the car type didnt come with a turbo then you cant run one. Have a talk to someone from CAMs and they can answer all the questions you might have. Dont forget in your rally car you will need Harnesses, Good supportive seats, terratrip or such, Communications between driver and Navigator (you will get sick of shouting if not)

Some times it is cheaper to just buy a car that has been already built for rallying.

Phizinza · Post by **Phizinza** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 1:05 pm

Thanks for the replies, exept when a well know member trys to annoy new comers, but oh well.

As for the CAMs and rollcage stuff, thanks, I already new all that, but its good to share that info out. Something else on that matter. You can have a rollcage without permission as long as it is 150mm behind the front seats as long as the rear seats are removed.

As for the rallying. Good to hear your looking into it. the 180b is the best choice if want in cheap. As for the 4WD, not everyone only wants to win. Some of us can enjoy just racing.

See? some people don't spend endless dollars on 'the mod'
Thanks for telling us all that PeeJay.

I understand reading never full prepares you. But I just think Mudrat missed the point that theres an option in a few of those. Like you don't HAVE to get the $500 adapter. Not everyones spends $2500 on just the engine. And not everyone has to get the engine rebuilt, I'd be happy to pull the engine out later to fix it, instead of getting it rebuilt "just in case"

But it is good to see Mudrat put a price tag on it as it took me more then half an hour to find any prices about 'the mod'

Sorry if I sound arrgesive but my week has been f'ed up as my grandma died. But it's all going back to normal now, hopefully I get back to my normal sleeping habits soon too.

Cheers everyone.

tim_81coupe · Post by **tim_81coupe** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 7:56 pm

Phizinza wrote:Thanks for the replies, exept when a well know member trys to annoy new comers, but oh well.

I wasn't trying to annoy you, just making a point here that I was going to make elsewhere.

Sorry to hear about your grandma, its never nice when something like that happens.

With the rallying, I'd be wanting to get into a class where I'm competitive. Winning isn't everything and it's not going to happen for anyone, unless your name is Chris Atkinson. My point was you should try enter into a class of peers, it would be fun once in a while to not come last and it would give a better indication of your driving abilities and make it easier to identify areas of improvement.

PeeJay's conversion was to an RX, so half the work was done by the factory

. The figures I gave were for a conversion to an NA MY, there's a lot more involved.

PeeJay · Post by **PeeJay** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 8:01 pm

Yeah, EFI or no EFI changes everything!

AndrewT · Post by **AndrewT** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:33 am

You can't tow a car-trailer + car with a Brumby - no matter what engine you have in it. Too dangerous, too illegal.

ToyRX · Post by **ToyRX** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:11 am

My RX Rally car cost the previous owner $7500 to convert to EJ20G Turbo from the old EA82T.

I brought it from him for $4500.

To build a safe clubsport car from scratch the cheapest way to go is a "standard" car with seats/cage - eg early 90's turbo skyline/legacy

Otherwise you are up for $10k plus - if you are on a budget and serious then you cant go past buying an existing entry level club car from someone else who has already poured the money into it, very achievable on 5k