SERIOUS PCV - it's an oil pump! EA82T

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:17 am

This EA82T I have just installed has some serious problems in the Positive Crankcase Ventilation. In trying to identify why it blows shiploads of oil smoke when boosting uphill, up mountain and slight gradients up, but OK on the flat I have redirected the PCV hose from each rocker cover into a super cheap catch can. Any boost and the can smokes a little more than idle produces. Emphasis on the smoke blowing out PCV on uphill gradients

Engine oil level was correct at all times using dip stick as the gauge.

Spark plugs inspected on comp test - all looked healthy and not oiled up. At a guess the oil pumped through hoses burnt in turbo before combustion chambers ?

The first fifteen to 20 km drive just smoked. Now for the 3km up the mountain test drive. despite one cylinder having 60 psi crank pressure and the rest 130 this baby pulls along nicely on boost. With PCV hoses redirected the uphill boosted drive at 80 to 100kph was almost smokeless apart from the breather pipes contribution. The 007 style getaway smoke plume of days before on same run musta been caused by the PCV hoses feeding raw engine oil into air box.

At the top I checked the catch can to find OOPS ! the catch can is about 500 - 600ml capacity with both hoses attached - no lid for breathing purposes with just a rag filtering stuff. The bloody catch can was full of hot bubbling black engine oil and had over flowed , soaking the filter rag at top and dribbled all over the inner guard. It was either panic and call a friendly taxi truck or panic, clean up my mess and motor on home keeping an eye on any further spills

How does the airway breather pipe suddenly become a channel for liquid oil. This engine has been sitting for an estimated three or four years and may have oil control rings gunked up and not sealing, has low comp in one cylinder (valve) and when installed found a pool of oil inside turbo elbow as was sitting in it when bought from a board member who indicated it was a good engine - maybe there was so much pollution or no hills in Sydney for this problem to have come to light ??

Any clues or relevant experiences appreciated, Jonno

steve_rising_sun · Post by **steve_rising_sun** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:23 pm

If you remove the vent hoses from the rocker cover, with the engine idling, do you feel a pulse of gas/air coming up? It will feel like exhaust coming out. If you do you may have a cracked piston or stuck rings [from sitting], on your low compression cylinder. If this is the case you will be pumping an air oil mix into the intake. Try running Wynns Tune up through the engine, feed half slowly through the intake while running [lots of smoke!], the rest in the oil. It has worked, if the piston is cracked......it won't. Make sure the PCV valve is free or you will have boost pressure in the sump, and more oil in the intake.
Steve

Outback bloke · Post by **Outback bloke** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:36 pm

Exactly right. You are getting compression in the sump somehow. Blown head gasket, cracked piston, gummed rings or some thing like that.

Your compression on 3 of the cylinders is pretty good. Around 8.8:1 by rough figuring. Static should be 7.7:1. Add in fuel and you are pretty close to what you should be. The other piston at 60psi is 4.1:1. You are losing a massive amount of compression which generally equates to oil being spat out and/or burnt.

At a guess the oil pumped through hoses burnt in turbo before combustion chambers ?

This can't happen. If the oil is going through the hoses in to the induction side of the turbo it will be spat back out the other side of it and in to your plenum.

If you had good compression on all 4 and it was still using/spitting heaps of oil then you would expect the turbo to be faulty. If they go you will get a massive JB007 out the back and then your car will stop.

Suby Wan Kenobi · Post by **Suby Wan Kenobi** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:05 pm

I am another definate with you have a ring or piston land being broken or gummed, with the low compression pot being the culprit.

Post by **Captain Obvious** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:31 pm

Suby Wan Kenobi wrote:I am another definate with you have a ring or piston land being broken or gummed, with the low compression pot being the culprit.

what he said, new piston time, i may even have some will have a look

nncoolg · Post by **nncoolg** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:04 pm

Yep, Ringlands...Im guessing you have that deep EA82 engine knock?

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:57 pm

Some good suggestions coming through, thanks. Wondering if you all considered that the serious oil pumping bit occurs going up inclines. I forgot to mention the other input being the crankcase breather in the block. It could be the serious culprit

Picture my altered set up is the LHS rocker breather t's up with the block breather and then a heater hose fixed to inside RHS engine bay, the RHS rocker cover pipe is tied up with it before fitting catch can - just driving along flat with mild boost pumped smoke out these tubes, give it a bit more and oil spat out - so i fiitted catch can.

Steve, the air flow feels normal, do not recall a PCV valve on the EA82Tas such? Wynns tune up is good stuff. Might try feeding it through a vacuum line or just no 4 injector hole as they are not in use

Captain, I will have some spare pistons I am sure. feeling I shoulda bought an oversize set when I saw them at $25 clearance price for EA82T !!

NNCOoLG
there is no noise, thankfully and other than the smoke and oil bleed problems goes bloody good, crisp power above 3000 despite low comp ??
OBB - does not sem to be like stuffed rings burning oil more like it is being fed through intake side for smoke effect. Thinking a comp leakage test will indicate a bit closer to the mark

SWK - cross your fingers for me it is only gummed up rings

Outback bloke · Post by **Outback bloke** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:35 am

Wondering if you all considered that the serious oil pumping bit occurs going up inclines.

I did. Made me think even more that it is a piston issue, as in broken. What happens is the oil will pool some where that it isn't meant to. Normal driving will see it "fill the pool" and then trickle over and burn at a steady rate. Add a hill, a corner, hard braking or some thing like that and the oil then rushes out of the pool and gets burnt in volume.

It will depend on where it is pooling as to what you do to the car to make it smoke. It could be in the plenum some where, in the bottom of the turbo, sitting in a breather hose hollow, any where. When you are driving up the hill it seems to be the correct direction for the excess oil to run out.

I had an EJ powered car that had a piston problem and it used to fill up the bottom of the plenum in the manifold. Turning right was the only way that the excess oil could run out in any volume. Coming on to the highway I could make all the cars behind me disappear if I did it fast. Then driving in a straight line it would ease up so much that you couldn't see it blowing smoke.

I really don't think it is gummy rings. You are basically doing mobile oil changes and will be putting fresh oil in it often. Also,why would they only be gummy on one piston? Then again, you might just be lucky. My thoughts are cracked piston and/or rings.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:27 am

Yeah, good explanation Outback Bloke, I understand where you are coming from.

And to make me feel better and stop you guys from making me wanna cry with yourwell founded suggestions of

broken or cracked piston or rings

STEVE !! Did you say PCV valve. Me , idiot, I found it !! Nah, it looks alright, bit gunked up but it still rattles , so must be OK - thinks to self.

UH, OH ....HEY STEVE BLOODY GENIUS, THANKS FOR STEPPING UP and suggesting...

this little bugger blows both ways !! Maybe that is where my early boost pressure is going along with filling the airspace of my sump and block with rather um volatile LPG vapours !! Time to clean it and test or replace

(puts steve_ rising_sun on pedestal)

the low comp more likely a valve just starting to leak/burn

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:16 pm

follow up

zooming off down the highway all seems fine until up slight incline at 110 kmh and then a smoke trail but nowhere near as bad because i could not escape the attention of the unmarked highway patrol (with the little rectangular lights just visible behind the grille) who tailed me through quite a number of turns while driving so as not to induce smoke, then he lost interest.

It turns out I did not inspect air box as it had become an oil bath. Cleaned it out and next lot of test runs look fine. Just need the up mountain test drive to solve the oil pumping problem. Vent hoses sti;ll fumey but wynns product may help with that before I tackle comp loss

thanks fellas

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:00 am

It's 3:00 am and I am sleeping peacefully knowing I got things sorted thus far

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:11 pm

BAD NEWS......

took the beast for a blast up the mountain and got the same symptoms on the same spot

. noticed still got boost, although the power drops right off as the oil is whipped through gas carby, turbo and burns in combustion. luckily engine does not stop on me and i can drive it back home. Found pool of oil in air box again.

it was going really well before this... was on the highway in popular speed trap area doing the 85 in an 80 in the fast lane getting past slow stuff when a myopic turd brain in his V8 Bommodore ute just comes up and sits on my arse (wish it was up the mountain

) until we get the 100, I shift to the now clear left lane and squeeze it to 120 for a little - PULLS GREAT!! - and turd brain just sits daydreaming in the fast lane at 100

Thinking if i clean it up again and give it the wynns tune up and keep to level ground I will be right until the rego runs out so long as I keep away from going up mountains.

Then... one day when I have time, room and inclination will pull motor down for better inspection. The next motor to receive attention is likely to be my other EA82T that needs valve spring change, then the EA82 carb block still sitting in car to get turbo heads for a little experimentation 9.2:1 mit turbo LPG !!

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 2:01 am

A lot of engine machinists/reco ers just shim the valve springs up untill they get the desired seat pressure , provided the springs don't bind alls good .

Rate is important on the inlet side springs because positive manifold pressure is exerted on the backs of the inlet vave heads under boost so if boost pressure is raised this needs to be taken into account .

Cheers A .

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:54 am

Some good knowledge imparted there , thanks Adrian.
Summing up cost of springs with the import wait at $10 each, $160 well spent if it fixes the problem. Machinist likely to cost more than that for their time and materials?

Changed the oil this engine with PCV problems to 15W40 Valvoline Diesel spec that I had around - if anything might help clean up the insides before any dismantle. So long as I kep away from going up steep inclines this motor behaves well and ...no smoke

funny thing I have noticed is the oil dip stick is not being blown out like other engines have done in the past so must be good breathing system on PCV. I am convinced and not willing to prove that this oil enters the PCV system via the crank vent at the rear of the block most likey to get oil closer to baffled exit point when facing up mountain

twilightprotege · Post by **twilightprotege** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:15 pm

it's quite funny that this post has been made as i have just been able to finally get my rx roadworthy and registered...and i'm having the same problems

blows lots of oil in the intake track but havent checked the cylinder pressures yet nor the spark plugs (that's tomorrow's task). i'm assuming it's just dead rings or something like that. i'm not too concerned as i'm hoping to ej20turbo in the near future (within 6-9 months), just need to get some help to get me by until that time. i've installed an oil catch can which has help reduce the blow-by (at times), but still throws out a bit of smoke. i've put in some castrol GTX (aka thick oil) to try and help as well

so, are there any other easy ways to reduce the blow-by as a temporary measure? would putting in a PCV valve like more modern cars help?

next issue is the engine bogs down a real lot when flooring it off the line (so only happens in first). when the turbo first starts to get boost, it's like i hit a rev cut, you get almost thrown forward, then all of a sudden it takes off (blows lots of smoke on the gear change - more than normal anyway). i cant understand why this is happening as the car is pretty good to drive normally - is it a case of something as silly as the car seeing knock and cutting the spark? i assume the car was tuned for 91ron fuel - i'm using e10 at the moment which is apx 94ron, so i'm not thinking it's that, but it's the only reasoning i can think of.

the other small issue is part throttle in any gear around 2500-3000rpm just as the turbo gets a tiny bit of boost (happens in any gear). engine feels like it misses and then goes fine. any ideas for this one?

twilightprotege · Post by **twilightprotege** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:48 pm

further to my post, now the car is backfiring under load at around 2000rpm (when boost starts to come on). any thoughts?