EJ into a Brumby

Any thing and every thing ever asked about how to do an EJ conversion to an L series and MY. Includes Brumby and Coupe.
User avatar
gosurfun
Junior Member
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:50 pm
Location: Mosman Park

EJ into a Brumby

Post by gosurfun » Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:08 pm

Am a new member and fumbling my way around here. Am wanting to do the same conversion on a Brumby but paused when the size of the 4eat, the different shafts in the diff, no speedo cable became issues. Is there an easier fit gearbox/diff combination to be using, rather than the EJ20 2001 auto Forester (have a damaged complete car). Chose the EJ20 SOHC as the ports look good, maybe not as good as a twin cam but plenty good enough for a solid power output without having to cut the chasis rails and the WRX DOHC turbo manifolds look like they bolt straight on. Have a turbo cross member and rear discs already. Wanted to keep the car looking stock without lifting it or bonnet scoops (water intercooler). If there is not a better fit conversion (auto or manual) it might be a adapter plate onto the standard brumby running gear, keep the seats and power steering, sell the rest of the Forester stuff and forget the turbo option. I want to use my Brumby and not spend the next 6 months working on it matching odd parts, have to buy a runabout car, while having the ears chewed by the little woman. Any good ideas?

User avatar
El_Freddo
Master Member
Posts: 12487
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:00 am
Location: Bridgewater Vic
Contact:

Post by El_Freddo » Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:26 am

Several things.

First - do a search, this has been done numerous times.

Second, the 5spd manual will fit in the trans tunnel but will need custom gearbox crossmember, shifter linkages and prop shaft. As for the output stubs there's two ways of doing it - main one done by many is to get the inner cup from the liberty/foz etc and have this put onto the standard brumby shaft.
Or the more difficult way to do it initially is to split the box and change the output stubs from a carbie L series. A bit of work initially but simple drive shaft swaps from then on!
Also a good time to decide what size tyre diametre you're going to run with and find the appropriate speedo gear to match the speedo to your actual speed ;)

If you keep the brumby's gearbox you'll most likely destroy it before long - they're not a very strong gearbox behind an EJ turbo especially when they've got a lot of k's on them!


You might need to space down the crossmember to fit the EJ under the bonnet but I'm not 100% on this.

The turbo crossmember from a foz or the like won't fit the brumby! You'll have to do your own grafting of the indent for the up pipe. Discs all round will fit with the crossbred conversion kit - well worth the effort if you're going with a turbo.

The turbo will work, but with the NA bottom end I don't know how well or for how long as the compression ratio will be NA specs and not the lesser of the turbo block, I don't know the differences in the bottom ends either.

Things to look at are:
- clutch setup - hydraulic pull type for the turbo or early cable for NA? Or go the early cable setup as it is easy and either beef up the pressure plate or leave it as is and hope for the best.
- daily driver?
- engineering? Not too hard to do these days I don't think, but worth talking to an engineer to see what you're up for in terms of work and cost of the certificate.

Also check out the build by D3VIL a year or so ago, he put a lot of effort into that brumby only to then move it on when all the fiddly finish-me-offs were left AFAIK.

Cheers

Bennie
"The lounge room is not a workshop..."
Image
El Freddo's Pics - El_Freddo's youtube

User avatar
gosurfun
Junior Member
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:50 pm
Location: Mosman Park

Thank you

Post by gosurfun » Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:09 pm

Thank you for the reply, all constructive help gratefully recieved.

Done much searching on the net.
Its a brumby turbo cross member.
Was going to leave the EJ N/A if putting onto the Brumby drivetrain.
Fit low compression forged pistons if turbo'd.
Already have Vortex rear discs but not a lsd diff (want one if using brumby or EJ drive train).
Was really wanting to know if there is a simple EJ driveline swap, the reason is maybe there isn't, as some people are going to the trouble of fitting EA and EJ gearboxes together to get AWD.
Not sure which path to take,

1. Stock N/A EJ onto brumby drive line, it was only made for a 50 KW motor, will the clutch be good enough?
2. Turbo SOHC (no cutting chassis or floor pan needed) with a strong enough drive line that fits easily, but don't know which one it is.

Have the EJ motor and auto gearbox sitting in the shed ready to go in if left N/A., but looks like I might have to fit part of the Forester floor pan into the brumby or weld a strip 100mm wide down the centre of the transmission tunnel. Both a lot of work, sometimes upside down welding (ouch), done it once before to make a conversion fit. Maybe not worth the effort. Same reason as using SOHC (easier) instead of DOHC (harder), advantage gained is not worth the effort and cost involved (cutting, welding, engineers, etc).
If the manual boxes fit without transmission tunnel modifications which is the best/easiest AWD with a low first gear or dual range to fit. Need it for launching the boat on sand without toasting the clutch.
Brumby is a daily driver. Got the Forester (sub 100,000km) very cheap which is why I was initialy thinking of a full drivetrain swap, diff ratio's already ok then. Not so sure about the auto box now, likely to sell it as the work involved to fit it is high. Want to keep the Brumby as its small, good in traffic, trail bike or other stuff fits in the back, tows the boat.

User avatar
El_Freddo
Master Member
Posts: 12487
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:00 am
Location: Bridgewater Vic
Contact:

Post by El_Freddo » Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:36 am

Pretty much all the manual transmissions will fit. And they'll hold up when behind a turbo so long as you don't dry clutch it especially in low range! I think you just need to shave a knob off the top of the gearbox so it doesn't foul on the floor pan.

Do a search for the 5spd conversion as an AWD conversion is pretty much the same to do and would be very worth while. The LSD can be added at any time.

If you're aiming for engineering I'm not sure how the modified floor pan will pass this.

1) the clutch might be good enough but most would beef it up. You also need to modify the flywheel for it to bolt to the EJ and organise an adaptor plate as the EA's gearbox bolting pattern is slightly different

2) Any of the AWD EJ gearboxes will do the job. Just do some research in to what tyre and gear ratio you want to run as this will effect the cruising engine speed. A dual range gearbox will do the job of pulling the boat in and out on the sand. You can also drop the L series low range into an EJ DR AWD gearbox for an even better low range - there are a lot of threads about this getting around about this now.

Cheers

Bennie
"The lounge room is not a workshop..."
Image
El Freddo's Pics - El_Freddo's youtube

User avatar
niterida
General Member
Posts: 1158
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:45 pm
Location: Geraldton WA

Post by niterida » Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:46 am

If you have the whole Forester then might I suggest to do what I am doing - put the whole drivetrain under it. That means everything - crossmembers, diff, suspension arms, struts, brakes, steering - absolutely everything.

It means a little bit of fabrication to make it fit but it will be factory standard underneath - no bodgy brakes or adapted hubs etc and of course it is a lot more modern than the Brumby.

It will make it a bit wider than standard so you will have to run flares - the rubber ones should cover it depending on what width tyres you run.

It has been done before - one in the UK and another in Perth - neither of them done the way I would do it though - both a bit bodgy.

And yes it is possible to get this engineered and registered like this - I have approval for mine and that is running a Mazda turbo rotary in front of the WRX box :-0

But if this looks like too much work then I would just put an NA EJ motor in with the Brumby box etc. The EJ20 out of the Forester will go very nicely in a sub 1000kg car - easy, quick and cheap !!
And if you do blow the box then you can just buy another one cheaply (I assume) or then go to the hassle of putting an EJ box in it.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

User avatar
gosurfun
Junior Member
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:50 pm
Location: Mosman Park

Post by gosurfun » Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:51 am

Thanks for the help!
Will have another look at the Forester rear end on the weekend, think it uses coil springs and the Brumby is torsion arms, quite different. Got the Forester for $400 at an auction + $70 delivery, it had been hit in the side so not sure if I would trust the suspension to be straight on that side, more cost to source replacements. Nothing bodgy about Vortex disc brake rear end, wish I had the Vortex LSD diff as well.

What Niterida said makes good sense, for all modern running gear, but the EJ auto box is massive compared to a Brumby manual. Wider Forester track would be more stable on and off road, rear might be a bit stiff, but that could be an improvement when there is half a pallet of bricks in the back. Where does the rear load get transfered to in the lightweight Brumby body, or does it need a complete new rear sub frame/chassis made up? Hope your not using the shocky mounts as they are only designed to take the load of a shock absorber for dampening, the main weight is carried by the springs and their mounting points (torsion bars in Brumby mounted probably onto chassis). Without looking yet would not have thought the rear shock mounts are designed to take the weight of the car and a load in a Brumby, the Forester probably is designed for it. Will have a good look at both on the weekend.

Am aware of the different wheel/diff combinations, was going to use it to my advantage as the Forester diff is 4.44 I think and 15 inch wheels. This with the auto would have been good for towing the boat using the 13 inch Brumby wheels and the option of, go up to 14's if top gear was too slow. Havn't swapped the speedo sensor out of the auto as the computer needs to know the speed for the auto gearbox.

One option was to get a 3 litre 6 cylinder EJ (50% better low end torque,YES BABY YES, much better than a turbo), but decided against it as all the extra weight is well forward of the front axle and already have a light rear end unloaded, could be dangerous/exciting, catch you out on wet roads or when on the limit cornering big time! Not good for towing either, unsafe-jack-knife big time! Looked like an almost bolt in without cutting the chassis, but another -ve, the radiator would have to be relocated to somewhere else on/in the car. Maybe in the back but I need that for carrying gear.

Anyone got an adapter plate EJ/EA for sale? Spotted an ad for them somewhere but not sure if it is still current.

User avatar
niterida
General Member
Posts: 1158
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:45 pm
Location: Geraldton WA

Post by niterida » Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:41 pm

gosurfun wrote:Thanks for the help!
Will have another look at the Forester rear end on the weekend, think it uses coil springs and the Brumby is torsion arms, quite different. Got the Forester for $400 at an auction + $70 delivery, it had been hit in the side so not sure if I would trust the suspension to be straight on that side, more cost to source replacements. Nothing bodgy about Vortex disc brake rear end, wish I had the Vortex LSD diff as well.

What Niterida said makes good sense, for all modern running gear, but the EJ auto box is massive compared to a Brumby manual. Wider Forester track would be more stable on and off road, rear might be a bit stiff, but that could be an improvement when there is half a pallet of bricks in the back. Where does the rear load get transfered to in the lightweight Brumby body, or does it need a complete new rear sub frame/chassis made up? Hope your not using the shocky mounts as they are only designed to take the load of a shock absorber for dampening, the main weight is carried by the springs and their mounting points. Will have a good look on the weekend.

Am aware of the different wheel/diff combinations, was going to use it to my advantage as the Forester diff is 4.44 I think and 15 inch wheels. This with the auto would have been good for towing the boat using the 13 inch Brumby wheels and the option of, go up to 14's if top gear was too slow. Havn't pulled the speedo sensor out of the auto as the computer needs to know the speed for the auto gearbox.

One option was to get a 3 litre 6 cylinder EJ (50% better low end torque,YES BABY YES, much better than a turbo), but decided against it as all the extra weight is well forward of the front axle and already have a light rear end unloaded, could be dangerous! Looks like an almost bolt in without cutting the chassis, but another -ve, the radiator would have to be relocated to somewhere else on/in the car.

Anyone got an adapter plate EJ/EA for sale? Spotted an ad for them somewhere but not sure if it is still current.
You just have to make up a strut tower in the wheel tubs for the rear suspension - I am planning on using the complete tub from my donor liberty.
Same for the front - although you can use the existing towers and just redrill mounting holes further out (bodgy).
To complete it you will need crossmember to frame rail mounts, control arm mounts (take them from the forester) and gearbox crossmember mounts or custom crossmember. If the box is too tight a fit, just use the tunnel from the forester. Too easy and all still legal :-)

Where abouts on the side was the forester hit - unless the suspension has taken a direct hit it should be ok, and if not replacement parts should be cheap since they are basically same for all Liberty/Impreza from 1989 onwards.

I am pretty sure the EZ30 will go in with the radiator in std position. They are only something like 25mm longer than an ej22 and not really much heavier. WOuld make an awesome conversionbut will probably cost $10k by the time you source the cut and wire it in - they are very complex electronically.

I believe there is a brumby around with an EG33 in SA - that is an EJ22 with another 2 cyls stuck on the front - so if that fits an EZ30 will fit easily.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

User avatar
gosurfun
Junior Member
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:50 pm
Location: Mosman Park

Post by gosurfun » Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:33 pm

After watching this, it makes the effort of fitting the auto possibly worth it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OzK-oRPCbs

Where do these messages disappear to?

User avatar
guyph_01
Senior Member
Posts: 2515
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:24 am
Location: Wilson WA

Post by guyph_01 » Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:50 pm

What makes a subaru a SUBARU :p
The project, EJ22 --->>> EJ25 Quad CAM:D touring wagon
Image
Thinking of going on holidays on a little paradise island, Check out http://www.dodolidays.com

User avatar
gosurfun
Junior Member
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:50 pm
Location: Mosman Park

Post by gosurfun » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:39 pm

Not sure what your doing Nitrida.
Think of how strong a piece of cardboard is (flat piece), when it is made into a box, it is much stronger ie milk carton. The rear end of a Forester is like a box. Using only the floorpan is like cutting off the top 2/3 of the box and still expecting it to be as strong, it won't be. The back of a Brumby is not even the bottom 1/3 of a box as the tailgate is not a stressed member (it opens without suporting the sides). The only way to keep the strength in a Forester floorpan put on a Brumby, is to put solid bracing between the strut towers (ute usefulness gone) or make a sub chassis of some sort. I cannot see how it will not collapse if any weight is put in the rear. Might work in a car, coupe, wagon, (remember the box shape/strength) but where the weight is transfered by the torsion arms to the chassis and has a lightweight body, its a Brumby ??? added a bit; when you have a think about it the original Brumby was well designed. Ute, sedan, coupe, wagon all on the same ploor pan. The next models had different rear suspensions and this was not suitable (not strong enough floor pan) for a ute so we didn't get one, despite requests for one. Using a Forester or Outback floor pan a dual cab ute called a Baja was sold in the USA/Canada. It didn't sell very well, partly because the ute part was small. Part of the reason for this was of the wagon floor pan used needed bracing as it was designed for a sedan/wagon. The solution was to put the back window/front of ute tray above the wheel arches to support and brace the floorpan. Think of almost any sedan, the rear window pillar/parcel tray is above the rear wheel arch stiffening the body shell, from the wheel/suspension forces. Had a look out the window at a Forester and guess what, there is a strut going to the roof from above the rear wheel arch giving it support. If you use a Forester floor pan and it is not braced then it may end up being a bit flexible, leading to soggy handling and later on to metal fatigue where it is flexing. Metal fatigue is cracking and failing. Good luck if you are doing it this way, I wouldn't even consider doing it without a full subframe of some sort, just bolting the crossmember in and adding a strut tower may not be enough.

What are you trying to do with your Brumby? Why not mod a Forester, quieter, comfier, etc no cutting welding, far less work, bolt in motors (possibly even 6 cyl ones), gearboxes, diff etc. Or if it has to be an old car, why not use a coupe or sedan, it will be far more rigid in the body with high output motors installed (your rotary). Much less twisting, remember the box/strength thing.

If your after outright performance, why not build a kit car (500 to 650 kg) and use a FWD gearbox mounted in the rear axle position. If it has to be a Subaru then put a liberty box with a WRX motor in it. Then any weight is much closer to the centre of the car which will give better handling, its called weight centralisation. Motor bikes are a good example of this, as there is very little if any weight in front of the front axle or behind the rear axle. Purpose built race cars are built this way, the wheels are near extremities of the car and only light body work extends past them, so there is very little weight outside of the wheels having a lever/pendulum effect when cornering. Idealy with very close to 25% of the total weight on each wheel. There is a limit to what a suspension system is designed for, high performance cars don't as a rule use passenger car suspensions. ""It may work and maybe work well with what you are doing"", but the Forester suspension was designed by experienced engineers to work in a Forester. As a general rule lighter cars need a lighter car suspension, for example we don't put big car/light truck suspensions in our modded street cars to improve their handling. Full suspensions here not just swapping in a thicker sway bar. The mounting points have to be located very accurately. For example the WRX rear suspension is designed to squash the suspension bushes, changing the toe in of the rear wheels under heavy acceleration. This improvers the handling under power during and exiting a corner, the bushes return to their normal shape when traveling at cruising speeds reducing tyre wear. Race cars are designed for mimimum flex in the chassis and suspension. This is part of how Subaru tried to get a compromise between factory high performance WRC cars and a car for public roads driven by the public. It is not a simple swap, if it's not accurately done (suspension mounting positions and angles, body flex accounted for) it may not be as good as the stock setup. Even if you going to that much effort with a Brumby, it will still be a Brumby with added on bits.

Hope I'm not raining on your parade, but trying to guess which direction your going and giving you warning of possible problems you may encounter, maybe I understood wrong, have you thought this through thoroughly?

Think the 6 cyl's are DOHC, much wider than a SOHC EJ22 which is already a tight squeeze (bigger heads on DOHC), from looking at pictures and without measuring one they look even wider than a DOHC EJ, so running out of chassis rail after extra chopping to make it fit.

Still not sure how you are taking the forces from the back wheels to somewhere other than a lightweight Brumby body panel with an extra strut tower stuck to it? The sedan/wagon floor pans are not strong enough to support a ute body without the full upper body work or a structure of some sort bracing and stiffening them. Is all the work worth it, is the Brumby rear suspension that bad, I think there are some sub 10 second Brumby's which still have the stock rear end (one by a guy called Nathan is doing 8's or 9's on the 1/4 mile from memory). Might be easier to try and make a Forester into a ute, if it is a ute with a Forester suspension you really want.

Any way after all that, does any one know which is the best LSD to use for towing a boat up a sandy boat ramp. I saw somewhere, someone got a heavy duty one from the USA, as many of the factory fitted units have been described as small and not that strong. Are the WRX or STI or Forester or RX or Vortex units adequate, I have no experience with Subaru LSD's. Please don't tell me to get a Thorsen as they only seem to work when there is resistance on both wheels, ie good for drifting, maybe not so good offroad. Maybe the Subaru LSD's are like the gearbox problem, make your own version, in this case by welding one up, but not so good for on road use.

Do Nissan 4WD's with independant suspensions have factory LSD's fitted, in some models (possibly front diff only ?) use the same unit as the heavy duty STI Subaru R180 unit, maybe with different axle fittings/splines and ratio's, might make it possible to have a Subaru offroad 4WD (not AWD) type LSD after a bit of cog swapping if the mounting bolt holes are the same.

The Brumby is so good in some ways but the Subaru motors are short stroke/large bore, therefore poor on torque, good for revs, good for sales brochures with higher peak power. Bought a cheap L 5 speed D/R as a spare so don't have to source one and make a mess of the boot in the wife's car half way through a motor/gearbox swap if the auto can't be made to fit. This is becoming a mission.

Can anyone get a 2001 Forester workshop manual of any sort (car parts/bookshops in Perth don't sell one), Australian version 2.0 litre, not the ebay USA 2.5 litre only version?

User avatar
niterida
General Member
Posts: 1158
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:45 pm
Location: Geraldton WA

Post by niterida » Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:16 pm

gosurfun wrote:Not sure what your doing Nitrida.
Think of how strong a piece of cardboard is (flat piece), when it is made into a box, it is much stronger ie milk carton. The rear end of a Forester is like a box. Using only the floorpan is like cutting off the top 2/3 of the box and still expecting it to be as strong, it won't be. The back of a Brumby is not even the bottom 1/3 of a box as the tailgate is not a stressed member (it opens without suporting the sides). The only way to keep the strength in a Forester floorpan put on a Brumby, is to put solid bracing between the strut towers (ute usefulness gone) or make a sub chassis of some sort. I cannot see how it will not collapse if any weight is put in the rear. Might work in a car, coupe, wagon, (remember the box shape/strength) but where the weight is transfered by the torsion arms to the chassis and has a lightweight body, its a Brumby ??? Good luck if you are doing it this way, but I wouldn't be.

What are you trying to do with your Brumby? Why not mod a Forester, quieter, comfier, etc no cutting welding, far less work, bolt in motors (possibly even 6 cyl ones), gearboxes, diff etc. Or if it has to be an old car, why not use a coupe or sedan, it will be far more rigid in the body with high output motors installed. Much less twisting, remember the box/strength thing.

If your after outright performance, why not build a kit car (500 to 650 kg) and use a FWD gearbox mounted in the rear axle position. If it has to be a Subaru then put a liberty box with a WRX motor in it. Then any weight is much closer to the centre of the car which will give better handling, its called weight centralisation. Motor bikes are a good example of this, as there is very little if any weight in front of the front axle or behind the rear axle. Purpose built race cars are built this way, the wheels are near extremities of the car and only light body work extends past them, so there is very little weight having a lever/pendulum effect when cornering. As much weight as possible is low and close to the centre of the car as practible to get the best and lowest centre of mass. Idealy with very close to 25% of the total weight on each wheel. There is a limit to what a suspension system is designed for, high performance cars do not use passenger car suspensions. ""It may work and maybe work well with what you are doing"", but the Forester suspension was designed by experienced engineers to work in a Forester. As a general rule lighter cars need a lighter car suspension, for example we don't put big car/light truck suspensions in our modded street cars to improve their handling. Suspensions here not just swapping in a thicker sway bar. The mounting points have to be located very accurately. For example the WRX rear suspension is designed to squash the suspension bushes, changing the toe in of the rear wheels under heavy acceleration. This improvers the handling under power during and exiting a corner, the bushes return to their normal shape when traveling at cruising speeds reducing tyre wear. Race cars are designed for mimimum flex in the chassis and suspension. This is part of how Subaru tried to get a compromise between factory high performance WRC cars and a car for public roads driven by the public. It is not a simple swap, if you want to do it right, if it's not very accurately done (suspension mounting positions and angles, body flex accounted for) it may not be as good as the stock setup. Even if you going to that much effort with a Brumby, it will still be a Brumby with added on bits.

Hope I'm not raining on your parade, but trying to guess which direction your going and giving you warning of possible problems you may encounter, have you thought this through thoroughly?
I am shaking my head in disbelief at this post.

You're right - you have no idea what I am doing or capable of doing, what i am trying to achieve, or even my background so why even write all that drivel.

I have been modifying and racing cars and motorbikes for over 30years so I think I know a thing or two about strength and benefits of certain designs over others. Putting the whole floorpan in will not make the Brumby any weaker since it will be fully welded in and replace the floorpan that is already there - its not going to be just a 'flat piece of cardboard' flapping arouind trying to hold everything together. The benefit of doing it this way is that all the mounting points, suspension and crossmembers will be factory standard and exactly in the factory standard position - ask an engineer what they prefer to see - unmodified factory bits or custom made. My engineer and the Dept of Transport have already approved this construction method.

I have chosen a Brumby because it is cheap ($200) and light (<1000kg)because I love the look of them and because with a 13B Turbo Rotary and AWD setup it will be f'ing fast - it is being set up as a weekend racer
aiming for easy 10sec quarter mile times. It will handle and brake just like (or better than) an STi since it will be an STi underneath and will be 500kgs lighter.

And as for being just a Brumby with added bits - I don't think so :twisted:

And I have a 99 Outback for quiet comfy ride :-D
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

User avatar
gosurfun
Junior Member
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:50 pm
Location: Mosman Park

Post by gosurfun » Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:22 am

Just read your post. Been working on cars for over 30 years as well and finishing a mechanical engineering degree at the moment.
I stand by what I've written.
My thoughts were, if your doing that much work, it might by a better performance return for your time and money to build something simular in design to a Lotus 23 with Subaru running gear and half the weight of a Brumby.

User avatar
niterida
General Member
Posts: 1158
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:45 pm
Location: Geraldton WA

Post by niterida » Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:46 pm

gosurfun wrote:Just read your post. Been working on cars for over 30 years as well and finishing a mechanical engineering degree at the moment.
I stand by what I've written.
My thoughts were, if your doing that much work, it might by a better performance return for your time and money to build something simular in design to a Lotus 23 with Subaru running gear and half the weight of a Brumby.
Yeah but 10 times the cost and you can't carry anything in it. :p
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

User avatar
gosurfun
Junior Member
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:50 pm
Location: Mosman Park

Post by gosurfun » Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:34 pm

I looked at doing something like what your doing and decided against it and everybody's different which is a good thing. If you after 1/4 results, I'm not sure but a friend said if you get to the 11 sec bracket you can't go back on the track without a full roll cage, not sure how true it is but it makes sense (more work/money/time).
I'm after grunt/torque and short stroke/large bore Subi's are not going to deliver it without multipe extra cylinders, unfortunately the Subi motor is well forward of the front axle so the extra weight would cause handling problems if you like pushing the limits on corners, especially on a ute with a already light rear end.
The ute body is not as stiff, so large amounts of power are going to lead to more twisting somewhere, this may be off set a bit by the independent suspension, AWD and weight on the front. Maybe the roll cage (if above is correct- 11 sec bracket) if fitted could be used to resist this as well if it designed that way and the twisting becomes a problem (which as the power increases, it will at some point).
I was just letting you know some of the problems that looked to be looming on the horizon when I looked at doing it. Decided to keep the Brumby useful for every day stuff instead.

User avatar
niterida
General Member
Posts: 1158
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:45 pm
Location: Geraldton WA

Post by niterida » Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:42 pm

Exactly - which is why I am building 2 Brumbys :-)

One will be a track car - stripped out, light weight, high revving, caged etc. And the existing monocoque will be strengthened also.

One will be a street car - 2.5 and auto (or maybe a 3.0L H6 and auto !!) - sedate, good towing, high profile tyres, comfortable seats etc.

And one of them will end up twin engined so the lack of weight in the rear won't be an issue - are you having heart palpitations yet ?? hehehehe

Yes your friend is right - run a 10.99 or quicker and you need a half cage - which is fine in the Brumby as it can go in the tray. Run 140mph and you need a chute ;-)
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

User avatar
Alex
Elder Member
Posts: 5405
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:00 am
Location: Perth
Contact:

Post by Alex » Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:49 pm

geez you two and your bickering!
my07 Outback
my13 Hyundai i45(shhhh)
my02 Gen3 Liberty limited ed.

previously
L-series wagon, LSD, EJ20turbo, 29in tyres, 'wanky wagon'
2000 gen3 outback, lifted, otherwise stock.

User avatar
niterida
General Member
Posts: 1158
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:45 pm
Location: Geraldton WA

Post by niterida » Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:02 pm

I'm not bickering - just standing up for myself after he gave me a lecture when I gave him a legitimate suggestion. And he even had the nerve to give me another lecture after I rebuked his first one.......
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

User avatar
gosurfun
Junior Member
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:50 pm
Location: Mosman Park

Post by gosurfun » Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:21 pm

Got used to the idea that Subaru's don't build torquey motors or ultra strong gearboxes, probably because of their short stroke/large bore ratio motors. Modded one of my bikes up to 1800cc (approx 1:1 bore/stoke ratio), even it produces more torque than a EJ20. The motor out of a big lump like a Triumph Rocket motor bike would probably be better for towing if fitted to the Brumby than a EJ25. The EJ needs a longer stroke crank in it for better grunt. The EJ motor looks to be made as narrow as possible already to fit in the engine bay (maybe thats the reason for the EZ asymetrical con rods, so the big end bolts clear the skirts on the opposite piston on the stroked, to finally get some grunt, 3.6 Tribeca motor?). The trip to the boat ramp has a maximum speed limit of 100 Km/hr all the way. The Subaru Brumby/Brat is useful in many other ways anyway, I'll put up with it fitted with a 100 Kw EJ motor, even if it only keeps up with a Corolla from the lights.

A Rotary was one of the first motors i considered for the Brumby but discounted it soon afterwards because its characteristics didn't suit my needs. I knew someone who put a Rotary motor in a little Suzuki 4WD about 30 years ago when the Rotaries first came out, 1/2 weight of the mazda with 1/2 the brakes! Two motors, not for me, my little boat has twin jets. A steering wheel, gearlever and two throttles is more than enough to try and control all once at times. Tired and studying for exams and shouldn't spending time here, got other things that need doing ATM.

User avatar
gosurfun
Junior Member
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:50 pm
Location: Mosman Park

Post by gosurfun » Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:27 am

Throwing out an old computer and found this link to a STI badged ute, not how I'd do it as a few loads or rough roads might see the rear suspension start to flex and crack out, but interesting all the same. Hope there was a drain hole in it somewhere to let the rain out.

http://htautos.co.uk/8.html

click on slide show on the bottom right.

User avatar
Macca
Junior Member
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:13 pm
Location: oak park

Post by Macca » Sun Jul 03, 2016 11:22 am

I,ve done the same as you guys and converted a 91 brumby to a 91 forester EJ 20 and transmission. Have now done 2000 k,s in it and reckon it,s drivable. Took it back to mechanics to get a few bugs out of it and a polish, but all the blokes that drive it reckon it,s RS.


Biggest problem is the CLUTCH (ex Forester) very heavy as I left it mechanical with the cable . I read on another post here the different pressures for the different models ie L series 350Kg EJ20 450 Kg & WRX 650 Kg. Does anyone know the forester spec. and do you reckon the standard EJ20 pressure plate will cure the problem.
Thanks

Macca

Post Reply

Return to “Fitting EJ motors to MY & L series models”