What's better auto awd or dual range M

Morcs · Post by **Morcs** » Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:29 pm

I know this thread is a little old but our Fozz is auto 05xt with bigger turbo exhaust tmic etc.
(Makes 250hp+ at the wheels)

The thing is an absolute weapon on the beach, dunes and Tar
It will spin all 4 when pushed on dirt but ease off and it grips really well on any thing i have thrown at it off road.

Mind you AWD nuts on the beach are fun...

If you select 1st gear with the auto you do have a some amount of engine braking

Only Problem is that it can take a little time to shift into the next gear. eg 1-2
(May be a valve body upgrade soon anyway)
But most motors wont have that problem.

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:59 am

SuBaRiNo wrote:Paul... i assume the auto box mod your refering to is the way u can lock the center diff and trick the ECU into thinking its not been touched... electronically.

I agree the Locking diff mod on the auto box is a good way to go but i only really find it a benfit when in a situation that any wheel slip would be bad. EG: You have parked in real boggy sand and want to get moving again without digging yourself into a hole.

The factory computer seams to do a pretty good job of locking the back up when it detects slip in normal situations i have found.

Dave

Sorry Dave I missed this until now but yes mate, I was referring to the electronic centre diff lock conversion. I know what you mean with the factory one working pretty good but I like the knowledge that it is locked and not just hoping it locks.

velocityboy wrote:Thank you again guys,the tips are very helpful. I would prefer the auto because I'm getting lasy in my old age, I am just concerned that useing an auto would be a big disadvantage. Thanks for the tip with the diff lock aswell. I only need to source a 4.44 ratio rear diff if anyone has one they would like to sell, and then I can get in to it.

Hey velocityboy.. how did you go? did you get the car back on the road?

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:02 am

Morcs wrote:Mind you AWD nuts on the beach are fun...

Video proof or we don't believe you

hehe.. just kidding but would love to see any footage

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Sun Dec 26, 2010 12:58 pm

Your call .

1) Weight is important and the small size of the vehicle is irrelevant .
2) Can't clutch start with slusher .
3) No stall recovery with auto .
4) No easy repairs if it hsits itself .
5) Electronic autos very expensive if anything significant dies .

The best for all round off road will be a dual range manual because of the wide gearing spread and direct drive nature .

Best case scenario with a Subaru 4 would be an EJ25 manual NA IMO .

A .

tony · Post by **tony** » Sun Dec 26, 2010 8:48 pm

Autos are fine within limits. however they have problems of toughness. Heat is the big enemy of autos, an extended workout on sofffft beach sand, on a hot day, and your trans is in deep trouble, as well as adding to the cooling work the car radiator has to do ( not sure if subies have a separate oil cooler for the box).
Also, when campaigning in tiger country there is a risk of the oil lines getting damaged and losing the drive. had this situation with a Falcon out of Darwin, had to hit some off road stuff, ripped out an oil line, got about another 100k and had to be trucked to Perth, arrived with inside all ripped to pieces because the truckies decided it would be handy to chuck half his cargo inside the car. very $$$$$, transport and new box.
I like autos, drive one myself, and find them great when towing and reversing.
If you are not going to go real bush they would be ok.

vincentvega · Post by **vincentvega** » Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:05 am

I have to disagree with most of what you have posted tony.

more manual boxes go bang than autos. subaru 5 speeds are not exactly bullet proof. 2 of the more experienced members of this forum, who have given me shit about autos for years, have just converted their cars to auto for this reason. Sick of breaking dual range boxes.

the oil cooler lines on a subaru auto are up high in the engine bay out of the road. They dont hang down low like a ford. not an issue. If you are worried about heat fit an external cooler. I have a big one mounted on mine, and have never seen the gearbox temp warning light come on once. Even after hours of soft sand driving on hot days, riding the torque converter in second.

I have been going "real bush" with my auto lib for about 7 years now and the thing i love most about it IS the toughness.

The only downside I see is you have a second sump to worry about. I know my car and have never had any trouble with damaging mine, but you could just cover it with a bash plate. It's on my to do list..

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:31 am

I also have to add that i prefer the auto (although i have not dont much off roading)

As a daily driver, the auto is just easier and the newer Ser2 4EAT (since 1998) is very smooth.

Another important thing to note that some turbo models had VTD (variable torque distribution, a planetary centre differential with hydraulic clutch lockup) as opposed to the MPT (multi plate transfer clutch) found on most other models

The VTD is a different beast when it comes to 4WD, as it is more like the centre diff in the manual boxes, but with a 35/65 front/rear split, with the ability to lock when the TCU sees slip.

Id love to convert my box to VTD for this reason, but even so, when ive driven on slippery mud, grass ect, the normal auto box has not had any trouble with providing me with traction.

longy99gt · Post by **longy99gt** » Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:55 am

auto's are genreally easier on the beach, but with low enough tyre pressures a manual is just as capable, i use 10-15 psi depending on the sand terrain and it goes fine,
depends what you want out of it?
if your putting an EJ20t in, i'd want a manual to drive it properly????

tex · Post by **tex** » Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:20 am

Stop!

Before you do this be warned check the size of the auto as mine doesn't fit in my brumby I had to lift it 75 mm and mod the transmission tube to fit it in!

bonzaman · Post by **bonzaman** » Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:28 am

story of my life "just needed three more inchs"

tony · Post by **tony** » Sat Jan 01, 2011 2:32 am

I think it comes down to personal preferences. I prefer the auto for day to day driving but would not take one into serious off roading. I have had the experience going through a pine plantation and getting the front and back wheels jammed against logs, the auto was just slipping and would not drive, I had to get out and move some of the obstacles.I have also noticed that soft beach sand can build up in front of the wheels and cause you to slowly come to a halt and the auto has trouble getting out.
Probably going a bit faster or lowering tyre pressures would avoid some of this, but that's just my experiences.

Morcs · Post by **Morcs** » Sat Jan 01, 2011 2:50 pm

tony wrote:Autos are fine within limits. however they have problems of toughness. Heat is the big enemy of autos, an extended workout on sofffft beach sand, on a hot day, and your trans is in deep trouble, as well as adding to the cooling work the car radiator has to do ( not sure if subies have a separate oil cooler for the box).
.

Bugger about the line coming off but i have put the biggest trans cooler i could find on our forester for both the added performance and towing reasons and also change the atf fluids when the log book says. (only done about 4000 km with upgraded turbo etc)

The subies do have a cooler that runs in the bottom of the radiator.
I put my oil cooler in series with the one in the radiator.

velocityboy · Post by **velocityboy** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:37 am

Wow, haven't checked this thred for while but thanks to every one for their input. I have learnt heaps from your comments. I am finally getting on to doing the conversion next week after more than 12 months of collecting parts and materials and alocating the time to do it. I will be taking lots of pics to share on this site so stay tuned.

taza · Post by **taza** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:58 pm

Personally I prefer a manual. I like driving it on road more than a auto, just feels right to me. I refuse to drive an auto unless I really have to, like a work vehicle for example.

I do mainly beach sand driving and yes I have burnt my clutch badly but I wouldnt have an auto. You learn to use it without burning it and you can take off without spinning your wheels. It just takes time to learn the techniques.
The lower gearing is nice to have from the dual range even if it isnt real low. You can always get the scorpion low range gears which are twice as low as standard if you want to rock crawl.

They both have their positives and negitives.
Autos are good for rock crawling and beach driving. Easy to take off and you dont have to worry about changing gears. But as stock they can over heat quite easily and are more pronoun to braking.
Manuals, more fun to drive (my 2 cents), you have the bonus of engine braking, you get the dual range box as standard with an N/A engine, lower gearing, better for towing. Rocks and ruts they do ok, just keep an eye not to burn the clutch much but autos have a win their.

Manuals are just as capable in sand and mud with the right tyres but not so much for rock crawling.
Im a manual person but thats me, its really just personal choice. I wouldnt even consider taking an auto Subie offroad, but I have never see one in action. I think the only reason and I mean only reason to have an auto is if you live in a capital city and its lots of stop go traffic. But even then I would drive a manual. I also despise of people who only have an auto licence and dont even know how or find it possible to drive a manual. If you needed to drive one in an emergency then you physically cant. But as I said thats my opinion.

Taza

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:48 pm

I too love manuals but find that all of my EJ model Subies with auto box, go soooo much better on sand than my manuals. Autos don't need low range because they have the torque convertor.

taza · Post by **taza** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:12 pm

^ I cant say I have ever been in an Auto on sand. So I cant compare. Wouldnt mind seeing one in action though or having a drive. haha

Actually I cant say I have ever been in an auto offroad....

2coupedup · Post by **2coupedup** » Mon May 16, 2011 2:10 pm

auto for sand is the go... i have a much much heavier new grand vitara 4cyl auto... 1.6 ton and drives ontop of the sand from the work go in standard AWD setting (no diff locks), compared to my coupe with 4sp low range LSD rear and similar tyres. not to mention 600kg lighter. and cant take off as easily or drive ontop of the sand or handle anywhere near as good as the vitara...

dont get me wrong the sub is still a brilliant car and i crave manual over auto with a passion but when i convert mine to ej20 i am paying for 4.44 auto and all the bits unless i get given all the pieces for manual for free...

why they didnt make a nice low range manual in them (sacrifice a tad more room in the box if they had to...) is beyond me...
or even a dual range auto, that would be killer....

cheers