Ruby Scoo’s epic build, ten years and counting...

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El_Freddo
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Post by El_Freddo » Wed Jul 08, 2015 1:15 am

I should also add that I had issues with the diff seals, the spring ring on the back of them kept popping off. So after the gearbox was together I counted the turns, removed the bearing loaders (for the want of a better name as they're not really carriers) and checked the seals/replaced the little ring.

Then I recounted the turns and locked them in place. I'm very happy with how the diff has been setup. Time will tell on this, but I'm not suspecting any issues.

Cheers

Bennie
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Post by NachaLuva » Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:22 am

Awesome effort, I bet you're so glad to have her going again! :cool:

Nice job on the oil feeders. I've been speaking to a few people who don't have them yet & their LR is already worn. On a built gearbox I would say they're essential. But yours is the 1st AFAIK to have that pipe feeding it directly onto the gearset :twisted:
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El_Freddo
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Post by El_Freddo » Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:34 am

NL, I've just copied what Rick did. So now I've got a set of phase one front cases with oil feeders as well for a possible future project.

If you don't have that directing tube there's really no point in dropping oil in with just a barb tapped into the case.

So I e put about 500 km on her already and it's great. I'm still debating my choice of fifth ratio... Even so with no cruise to use Ruby Scoo returned 10.7L/100km tonight with 95% on a freeway/highway.

Also noted that there's about 250-300rpm difference between 100 and 110km/h.

NL, I'm keen to know what revs you're pulling at 100 and 110 being that you've got a stock 2L 5th ratio in your gearbox.

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Bennie
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Post by NachaLuva » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:42 am

It does just under 3000rpm at 100kph with stock tyres. I'd like it to be about 2500rpm...
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Post by El_Freddo » Thu Jul 09, 2015 3:26 pm

NachaLuva wrote:It does just under 3000rpm at 100kph with stock tyres. I'd like it to be about 2500rpm...
Hmmm. Will have to investigate the 5th ratio I used a little more then. I'm 99% sure I've written it in here somewhere!

As for your desire for lower revs you'll find 2500rpm too low and won't even be good for low gradient changes at speed. I was aiming for ~2850 at 100km/h and have clearly missed that mark. Down changing on hills will most likely eat the economy gains from cruising on flats with those revs. Just something to consider ;)

Also with my last fuel usage figure I forgot to correct the distance travelled so the usage comes down to 10.2L/100km. Not bad but I reckon I could get better with the right 5th ratio. Now that I know what's involved with swapping it I might spend some time playing around to work out the best one to use for my setup. Will be painful but worth it I reckon.

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Bennie
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Post by NachaLuva » Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:36 pm

Thats what I thought too but then I looked at Mum's Jazz, it does 2200rpm at 100kph & its only a little 1.5L.

With the bigger muddies on mine does 2800rpm at 100kph (GPS) & I got a bit over 8L/100km on the freeway even though those are really heavy
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Post by El_Freddo » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:26 pm

Chalk and cheese! 2wd, most likely lighter and a much newer engine management system etc.

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Post by El_Freddo » Sat Sep 26, 2015 11:05 pm

And gearbox (again), probably less than 1000k's on it:

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At least nothing is broken this time. Last weekend I was headed out for a day trip in the Cobaws with some mates. I hooked up my low range lever only to find that I couldn't for the life of me select low range, or just get it out of high range for that matter.

So a strip down was done and I believe the issue was this little tab sitting out of place like this:

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When it should be sitting more like this:

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This now leads me to believe that I've either placed it in high range during assembly past the dedent ball or that it's been allowed past the dedent ball's locating position. Note that the selector hub above is hard up against the low range drive gear. This seems to uncover too much of those tabs and allows them to move from where they should be located. I believe it should sit more like this:

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So now some work has gone into creating a mechanical lock out that stops the selector hub from moving too far forward AND a relocation of the dedent ball positions. This work is all thanks to my Uncle who provided the handy work on the braising required.

No pics of that work yet. Next will be to test the movement of the selector fork in the cases without anything else in position - if there's too much friction there I'll easily be able to check it out and rectify it. If it moves freely we're sweet.

Update later! I'll be busy building then hopefully offroading for a couple of days ;)

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Bennie
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Post by tambox » Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:19 pm

Yep, when playing with different casings/gears, that little plate with the detent holes often has to be re-drilled/extended.

Another common way to pop those tabs out is when the input shaft slips forward and the shafts are pushed back together, during assembly, can cause that.

Got an oil feed for the low range??
Your teeth are getting marked (love quality photo's)
L serious, still.

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Post by El_Freddo » Sat Oct 17, 2015 7:41 pm

So the long awaited update is here!

So after modifying the L series low range selector fork with new dedent balls and a mechanical lock out so that the selector hub can't go too far when in high range.

New dedent ball positions:

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Mechanical lock out - is only used if the selector hub tries to go further than it should:

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One of the reasons for this mod was because I thought the tabs trying to come out was why the gearbox was stuck in high range, the other, after pulling the gearbox apart was because I didn't think the dedent ball and spring could hold the selector hub where it needed to be and could go further due to the input shaft having a larger gap between the synchro hub and the low range synchro:

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^ note the gap between the synchro (gold) and synchro hub (grey) on the RHS of the selctor hub (centre of pic), compare this to the other side. The gap on the right is larger than the left. This is AFTER the shim on the input shaft bearing's housing was removed. It was WAAAAYYY too big for my liking with the shim.
I don't know how I didn't notice that when I first put the gearbox back together.

The other thing was that none of this was actually the issue in the end - I found out that the cause of the whole locked issue was a little washer. The rest of the work can therefore be put down to refinement ;)

You can see the little washer in this pic, just out of focus in the top right (from the previous post):

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With that sucker removed and the cases together it all works smooth as silk!

I also threw in some new front diff bearings and seals too:

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Sooo shiny! The old ones had a definite track in them, plus Paul (RSR555) put a bit of doubt in my mind when he saw them. Throw in a whirring noise at speed and I thought it best to swap them. For the ~$90 it was worth it even though I've still got the whirring noise - probably due to either the tyres being misaligned or the new Nolathane radius rod bushes I've installed.

I really wanted to do something about my speedo being out by 4km/h, over from what was indicated - easiest way to get a ticket in Vic. My mini collection of speedo drive gears was in Shepp and I was doing the build in Cobaw. I managed to find one gear - a 27 tooth unit. I counted what I had (stock SG 4.11:1 speedo drive gear) and found this unit had 28 teeth.

From what I can remember the 27 toothed unit came from a 3.7 gen 1 or gen 2 liberty - it was so long ago I don't really remember. The 28 tooth and fitted 27 tooth drive gear:

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So it was time for the finally assembly:


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Post by henpecked » Sat Oct 17, 2015 7:59 pm

Reading post like these are, for me, like going to the national art gallery. Some of the stuff I see I have absolutely no understanding of how it was done, and I know that I would never be able to do it myself, but I just gape in awe at the obvious excellence of concept itself anfd then even more so at the implementation work.

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Post by El_Freddo » Sat Oct 17, 2015 8:27 pm

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I also found a cardboard template of the bolting sequence helpful in assembly:

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"Shim holders/case guides" - used cable tie tails:

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Such a good sight to see - especially after dropping a little retainer bolt back into the gearbox. That was a frightening moment!

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Overnight I started self doubting about the choice of speedo drive - it could be 10 or 20km/h OVER actual speed, which would've been pretty annoying and I'd still have to rely solely on the GPS.

Loaded onto the motorcycle jack for fitment. I made a shaped block of wood to raise the gearbox further for the mating to the engine as Ruby Scoo was up on ramps.

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From here it all came together rather quickly including interruptions - gearbox on shed floor in the morning, 10am start (warmer!), driving by 7pm - I was happy with that effort anyway:

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I managed to get the drive shafts fitted without having to drop the ball joints and swing the hub out - you just have to get them on before you start to line up the box with the engine ;) Worked a treat and saved some time and some dodgy operations!

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You can see the block of wood in this pic above.


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Post by El_Freddo » Sat Oct 17, 2015 8:28 pm

Aaaannndddd DONE! Low range works and is very smooth in shifting, as is the rest of the box once it's warm:

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The best bit? Well, the first drive and the test of the low range was great, but what made me really stoked was that the choice of speedo drive gear was SPOT ON!!

So in my application with 27 inch tyres and 4.111:1 diff ratio the 27 tooth speedo drive gear is spot on with indicated to actual speed. Very happy with this!

Cheers

Bennie
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Post by El_Freddo » Sat Oct 17, 2015 8:31 pm

Thanks henpecked! I used to shy away from gearboxes until I decided not to run an adaptor plate with my EJ conversion - I re-cased an L gearbox in EJ dual range cases. That's what got me started on gearboxes!

This box was initially built by another fella who does them pretty regularly. I wanted to keep the cost down on this rebuild and he'd already done the hard yards on some of the required mods - such as the modifying of the low range selector fork for the EJ application and the shaving of the crown wheel ;)

Cheers

Bennie
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Post by NachaLuva » Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:55 am

So glad it's all worked so well, even the speedo mod! :cool:

Why is the LSD missing 2 bolts?
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Post by Bantum » Sun Oct 18, 2015 11:02 am

Yeah I noticed that too :

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What's up with the chamfer as well ?

Cheers, Bantum ...

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Post by El_Freddo » Sun Oct 18, 2015 12:05 pm

They're cast holes in the LSD but no threaded holes for a bolt...

The chamfer is to clear the low range! Need it regardless of L or EJ low range afaik.

Cheers

Bennie
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Post by vincentvega » Sun Oct 18, 2015 8:32 pm

well done getting the speedo spot on mate. i miss mine being accurate.
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brumbyrunner wrote:And just to clarify the real 4WD thing, Subarus are an unreal 4WD.

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Post by El_Freddo » Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:08 pm

tambox wrote:Yep, when playing with different casings/gears, that little plate with the detent holes often has to be re-drilled/extended.
Yeah, learnt that with this fix. It's a good thing to know too - and relatively simple to do.
tambox wrote:Got an oil feed for the low range??
Your teeth are getting marked (love quality photo's)
Yep. This low range came from a box that was worked from time to time. I decided on this set as it didn't make any noise, unlike the one I had in my current gearbox at the time...

Oil feeders are used when ever they're needed these days, so hopefully there's no further damage.

No worries on the quality photos - something I enjoy doing!
vincentvega wrote:well done getting the speedo spot on mate. i miss mine being accurate.
You've gone back to a manual yeah? You could do a diff ratio match if you're keen on sorting it out...

Cheers

Bennie
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Post by vincentvega » Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:35 pm

If i ever have to open the box up i will look into sorting the speedo (and will be chasing you for advice!!)
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brumbyrunner wrote:And just to clarify the real 4WD thing, Subarus are an unreal 4WD.

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