Silverbullets' resto: Engine, gearbox, suspension

[Silverbullet]

Heh, yeah it's been a few years since I took an engine out so had to re-learn one or two things Wasn't pushing hard either. And the lights are fantastic, I'm still amazed every time I turn them on. In the little shed now I can see better at night than I ever could even during the day, can actually use the work bench in there now

A few photos from Friday afternoons effort just passed, engine is out...and that's about it. Spent half of Saturday putting together a simplified wiring harness for the ignition system for, dare I say it...the new owner Don't know who that is yet.





Other half of Saturday I spent on the computer learning the software for the new ECU and trying to figure out...can I run the fuel system without a pressure regulator? The ECU can control the fuel pump speed with PWM and I have a fuel pressure sensor to plumb in. Couldn't figure out if it's possible to make the ECU maintain a set fuel pressure just with fuel pump modulation alone using feedback from the pressure sensor...tech support! This is only because my fuel tank doesn't have a fuel return line. Worst case I just have to tee into the filler neck with a return hose and then I can use a pressure regulator.

Next is a big clean out of the engine bay, so much oily sand in there

[El_Freddo]

Those fuel pressure regulator questions are ones for haltech, or check out their YouTube channel.

If you’re worried about no return line you could run a surge tank that feeds the EFI pump. Fuel returns to this - and depressurises by feeding back into the factory tank via its outlet to the standard pump, but with a one way valve on this surge tank outlet and a T piece on the main tank side of the Fawcett pump so fuel can go either way.

If this is too complicated the return into the filler pipe is a great one too - just keep it low enough or pointing down the filler neck to avoid fuel trying to get out of the cap isn’t fitted properly.

And I’m guessing the basic ignition system is for the twin carb engine to help with its sale. Pitch high, I reckon you’d be able to sell it for some decent coin!

Cheers

Bennie

[Silverbullet]

I did send a question to Haltech about that and got a reply this week. The short answer is no, still need a mechanical fuel pressure regulator...What's the point of all this programmable everything ECU and sensors and PWM fuel pump if I still need to rely on an archaic mechanical spring device to manage my fuel pressure??

This is turning into the biggest headache and the main thing holding me up right now. I got the fuel tank out yesterday, it is going to be at least expanded in capacity and was also planning on adding a hanger style fuel pump inside the tank. But this still doesn't solve my fuel return line problem.

The main issue is my grommet, for the fuel lines, currently looks like this (same at front/firewall and rear floor)


That supply line is only 6mm I.D, not enough for EJ20. I plan to replace it with dash 6 or 8 TPFE flex line for the supply to the front using the same hole in the grommet. The tank vent line needs to stay a tank vent line, can't use that hole. At the moment the best option I can see is having a surge tank at the rear, near this grommet. I would put the fuel pressure regulator there and either return into the surge tank or into the fuel tank. This is still a crap option because then I would need to run a manifold vacuum line from front to rear.

I really want a system like this, the regulator here is at a fixed level and doesn't need vacuum reference. AFAIK only OEMs used this system though and I can't find parts aftermarket to make it work.


Or I guess another option would be to find a parts Brumby with a fuel return line and steal its grommets and lines. Then enlarge the holes in my floor and firewall to accept that.

[El_Freddo]

Hey Sam,

Are you sure you don’t have a return line? AFAIK you should have a fuel in, (small/tiny) fuel return and a vent line. Subarino told me the swap the small return and vent lines with EJ conversions to get the fuel through the body using the factory lines.

That 6mm fuel in line will be just fine for pressurised fuel for the EJ20. Many use this for the factory EJ20 turbo setup without issues.

Don’t over complicate the setup, or stress yourself out with this!

If you’re going to add an in tank pump and hanger arrangement, the return line will be in this setup, other fuel lines in and out can be plugged up. I’ve not seen this done but should be easily doable I’d say. The painful bit would be servicing this setup (if ever needed) as it would require a diff and tank out manoeuvre.

Do you have a setup with the fuel pump in the engine bay or under the back seat?

If push comes to shove on the return line, we can work something out with a fuel line from one of the wagon wrecks I’ve got. Biggest issue is getting it to you without bending it…

Cheers

Bennie

[El_Freddo]

Scrub the idea of sending over a fuel line from a wreck over here, I read this thread the other day by chance and thought it’s something you could do - bend up your own fuel line:

https://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/to ... need-pics/

It would probably be easier and quicker to source the bending tool and the bundy tube to make your own fuel line and run it with the factory fuel lines behind the interior trim panels.

I can dig up some factory grommets that will accommodate the three fuel/vent lines I just need to get down to M&D’s to grab them from the wreck.

Cheers

Bennie

[Silverbullet]

Thanks for the offer of support Bennie. It's all under control now though, problem is solved with one little invention called a bulkhead fitting Was ranting about my problem at work (with two other car guys we regularly share weekend shed stories) boss says, "why not just use a bulkead fitting?" So I slapped my forehead and thought, of course! why didn't I think of that!

So just put an order in for a couple of these


Plus some 6AN teflon hose and hose ends for the in-car section. Teflon to remove the risk of fuel smell inside. This will form the 8mm ID supply line and I will use the original 6mm hard line as the return. Just need to drill a small hole in the floor near the original grommet and one in the firewall. This solves every problem I had, don't even need to worry about dead-head system any more. Fuel pressure reg can stay in the engine bay (fuel rails might already have one?) close to vacuum reference. All the hoses and lines already on the engine can stay there which simplifies things.

I'd like the in-tank pump so I wouldn't need a low pressure lift pump going to an external high pressure pump. My original carbie pump was in the engine bay. Now, to find a fuel pump hanger I can use in my tank. Thinking of pulling one from the same gen Forester as my engine and working with that. A trip to U pull it is in order.

[El_Freddo]

The fuel pressure regulator is located at the back of the fuel rail on the RHS head. It’ll have a little vacuum line that goes to it too.

I reckon you’ll find that 8mm fuel line overkill. You’re not running a drag racer, and I’m 99% sure when ppl drop the turbo EJ in that they don’t upgrade the fuel line either.

I’m also surprised you’re ok with drilling holes in that beautiful body work! I’m working on a little project where I’m not cutting or drilling anything on the body, even in places you can’t see.

Keep us updated

Cheers

Bennie

[Silverbullet]

I reckon you’ll find that 8mm fuel line overkill.

I reckon you're right
I should have gotten the Forester fuel pump hanger before I ordered that stuff; the outlet is 6mm at best, but with the barb/bulb on the end it necks down to 5mm! on EJ25! All the online research I did said stock EJ20 had 8mm lines. The stuff I ordered turned up this week. Had to get it physically in my hands to realize the size of it. Yep, too big Not all is lost though, I can use some of the hose and maybe half the fittings and make my own adapted power steering hoses for EJ to My rack.
Now to re-order everything in AN4 / 1/4" / 6.3mm


Todays progress was a trip to U-pull it for the fuel hanger and I pulled some intake ducting from an EJ18 Impreza. To adapt to my needs nameley moving the air filter out of the way of my toolbox. Might end up with a pod filter behind the RHS cylinder head, not sure yet. Reckon I can make the EJ hanger work in the MY tank with some customization of both. Maybe even get the fuel gauge to read correctly, wouldn't that be a treat



Also picked up my flywheel from having the holes machined for the EJ engine. I'll use this until my hybrid EJ box is finished then going to full EJ flywheel and clutch.


Aiming tomorrow to get the engine bay degreased/cleaned/readied then move heaven and earth to get the engine dropped in next weekend

[El_Freddo]

Don’t put a pod filter on this as A) it won’t look even stockish and B) if you put it behind the RHS head, although it’s convenient, you’ll have a piping hot exhaust directly under it!

Tape up/line your engine bay rails to protect your paint. The EJ202 fits but it can be tight to get it in as there’s not a great of wiggle room when dropping it in

Otherwise have fun!

Cheers

Bennie

[Silverbullet]

It's in!



Brought the engine home Friday afternoon and tore into the job of beeping out all the wiring in the grey and brown engine harness plugs, which wire goes were to connect the ECU up. Made myself a mud map that all took a couple of hours. Was geared up to get the engine in that day except I was tripped up just after 5PM by the flywheel bolts...silly me thought the old ones would be suitable...they're not The old EA flywheel bolts measure 9mm O.D. would you believe. EJ is 10mm x 1.0mm pitch.

So Saturday morning I had 2 options to get the bolts and I wasn't about to spend a couple of hours in the rain pulling an engine out at U-pull it to get the flywheel bolts. Sprint auto were the only shop in town open on a Saturday that stocked bolts with this super fine pitch and only in 1 length which luckily was the correct length. So cleaning out the stock of 2 stores I had 9 bolts. Not my first choice of bolts for this but my only choice and it's only short term. I'll have genuine flywheel bolts when my new gearbox is ready.



Everything else was a breeze, hardest part was getting the input shaft into the pilot bearing as usual. New STI engine mounts dropped into place after filing the slots out slightly on the X-member. And dang it now wish I'd asked to get the intake manifold media blasted, it looks a bit grubby compared to the pristine air cleaner box of the old engine
Now the real work begins; wiring, fuel lines, fuel tank, P/S lines, radiator, rad fans, A/C lines... etc Much to do.

[El_Freddo]

That engine looks so good in the blue engine bay!

It’s not too late to pull the intake manifold and get it media blasted, it’ll just take time and some coin as usual!

Since you’ve got what looks like an EJ flywheel, didn’t you have the matching bolts for tut that came off the engine? Or MIA?

Where’d you get the adaptor plate from? Didn’t think to grab a Subarino unit for the job? I hope you didn’t drill the thread out of the EJ block to mount the gearbox on the offset holes!

With your hybrid box build, are you doing it yourself or getting someone to build it for you? And what AWD dual range box is donating the front cases? I hope it’s a phase 1, 4 bolt box as the reverse gearset is moved about 2mm outwards from the upper gearset in the phase two gearbox.

This means a phase 2 gear set doesn’t work in the phase 1 cases unless you don’t want reverse and a phase 1 gearset in phase 2 cases would mean a weaker reverse gear or one that doesn’t mesh properly - I haven’t played phase 1 gearset into phase 2 cases to know what happens there. A mix and match of the reverse slide gear *might work* - use the phase 2 reverse slider gear with the phase 2 cases and the phase 1 (L series) gearset. No guarantees on this though. I wish I thought about this earlier to discuss with you!

Keep the updates coming as they roll in!

Cheers

Bennie

[Silverbullet]

I may yet pull the intake and get it treated, there is time while I do all the other work.

The EJ flywheel I bought separately from a Subaru wrecker, didn't think to ask for the flywheel bolts as well The adapter plate is a home made jobbie that I bought years and years ago for Dad's (now deceased) L series. Turns out that Thomas (Phizinza) made it a long time ago. Debated myself long and hard but yes I did drill the threads, was the only way to do it with this adapter plate. Didn't want to fork out for a Subarino one and only use it for a few months. I think it will be fine since this engine has an 8 bolt bellhousing, so 6 other threads still intact and two longer bolts with nuts on top won't hurt anything.

The hybrid box build is being done at a local gearbox specialist. I gave him my 3.9 ratio L series box and diff to rebuild and use the internals in an (I guess phase 2) 8 bolt Lib dual range box which I also supplied bought from a wrecker (didn't know it mattered at that point phase 1 or 2) There's a guy here in Adelaide, Jordan on the FB group who made a video explaining how to do it which I also gave to the gearbox specialist but the video showed a 4 bolt phase 1 I believe, in the vid he said it didn't matter. Jordan also sold me a better ratio 5th gear set for highway cruising. Dunno where he got that from.

In the end it will still be FWD not AWD except for the Hi/Lo lever with no center diff. I'm sure if something doesn't match up I'll get a phone call about it, will deal with it when it comes. Can you tell I'm out of my depth with all this EJ malarkey?

[El_Freddo]

Can you tell I'm out of my depth with all this EJ malarkey?

That’s where asking questions comes into it! Research!!

Makes sense that you’re using the adaptor plate you’ve had for some time!

Any way I can view this video by Jordan on bookface? Or can I find it using Mrs El_Freddo’s account? I’m curious to see what he recommends - and how he does the L low range into the EJ cases as the input shaft bearing is a different inner diametre for the shaft to be pressed onto. More on this later.

While Subarus are generally all Lego, there are some areas where some tricks are needed - this reverse change/difference between the phase 1 and 2 gearboxes is something I stumbled upon when rebuilding my broken gearbox. You can read about that here -> viewtopic.php?f=72&t=11733&start=540

I’ll have to mod that link in the thread to Alpine Raven’s low range swap - the details in this thread could be useful to the dudes doing your gearbox build: https://www.ausubaru.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=99&t=13511

Also, what’s the fifth ratio set from? You need to know these details as from what I recall EA PT4wd 5th ratio gear sets are not interchangeable with the EA and EJ AWD 5th ratio gear sets due to the difference in how the lower shaft is setup between the PT4wd and AWD systems.

I’ve got a PT4wd box in bits in the shed I should use to investigate this…

What are you using for the clutch? Keeping the cable (hopefully!) or going hydraulic? All phase 2 gearboxes are hydraulic and need a bracket added to use the cable clutch with a matching clutch fork. You also need to swap the pivot ball to the lower mount hole inside the bell housing to accommodate the different clutch fork. I’ve also found a washer under this can help with the fork not maxing out on the edge of its hole before proper disengagement is made. At one point I was using two washers. Dunno how thick they were, just cheapy washers off the shelf in a packet.

Anyway mate, lots to take in there. Hit us up if you need any info! Always ask before investing money unless no one else has done it or key ppl are with-holding information because of a superiority complex or something stupid

Cheers

Bennie

[El_Freddo]

I should’ve been more clear about the link to the 1.59:1 low range into an EJ box.

All you need from there is the details around the bearing details to mate the L series unit shaft into the EJ input shaft housing.

For those that snag a series 1 EJ gearbox, the input shaft housing is three bolt and swaps with the L series. Everything else is a four bolt arrangement and needs this modification that Alpine Raven talks about.

No need to shave hub synchros etc for your application!

Cheers

Bennie

[Silverbullet]

Always appreciate your input Bennie Up till now I've been going off info from a couple of guys locally, Jordan being one and the other a guy called Matt who's also built an L/EJ hybrid box for his ute. The vid I'm on about is in a closed group, might be difficult to share it through FB. So for a limited time only, I pinched it and uploaded to YT as an unlisted video, only people with the link can view it. I'll delete it shortly. There's a lot of talking and the video quality is very low.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7b4uCYbmZ4

I'll give the threads you linked a good look over, cheers.

You need to know these details as from what I recall EA PT4wd 5th ratio gear sets are not interchangeable with the EA and EJ AWD 5th ratio gear sets due to the difference in how the lower shaft is setup between the PT4wd and AWD systems

Going back through my messages with Jordan, this is all the info I had:

The issue is to find a cheap box that has the correct 5th gear ratio and its normally the wrx or turbo ej boxes that have them and everyone wants good coin

and

0.738 5th gear

I know he did make an adapter for me, and sent me a photo of the gearset he sold me installed in a box he was building to make sure it was going to fit:



Clutch, I'll be using my L series cable, using an EJ fork and moving the pivot ball to the manual position. Then using a complete EJ clutch kit. That note about the washers is a good one, I'll keep that in mind

Fun and games...

[Silverbullet]

Reading through those old threads...it slowly dawns on me I've read them all before but back then had not the feintest idea what any of them were about Now I understand. From what I can tell, what I'm going for is what Donkeytits1 describes on page 5 of AlpineRavens thread

I can confirm that the only modification necessary was milling of the selector fork; the spline length was OK and the front housing and bearing were also the same; All rotating parts were a direct swap.

Except
- I'll have the L selector fork and use the L rear extension housing to keep the L detents for Hi/Lo
- I have a later model Liberty box to donate its case halves, maybe this makes things slightly more complicated than a direct swap. Then I'll need that bearing for the input shaft that you mentioned, Bennie.

[El_Freddo]

Going back through my messages with Jordan, this is all the info I had:

The issue is to find a cheap box that has the correct 5th gear ratio and its normally the wrx or turbo ej boxes that have them and everyone wants good coin

and

0.738 5th gear

I know he did make an adapter for me, and sent me a photo of the gearset he sold me installed in a box he was building to make sure it was going to fit

Cool, I’m glad to hear you know it fits. I didn’t know it was possible! Looks like it’s got the stopper setup when selecting reverse. It’s apparently meant to stop the gear sets rotating when selecting reverse - stops that grinding noise that can happen.

Clutch, I'll be using my L series cable, using an EJ fork and moving the pivot ball to the manual position. Then using a complete EJ clutch kit. That note about the washers is a good one, I'll keep that in mind

You’ll also need the bracket on the phase 1 and L series gearboxes that holds the end of the clutch cable sheath/outer casing for the cable to operate. While grabbing that bracket there’s a little retainer clip further down the box that holds the clutch cable to stop it flopping around, get that too.

Fun and games...

Gearboxes always are. But so good when you pull off stuff like this! I’ll be keen to know how your builder goes with that reverse gear setup too.

You’ll need that bearing for sure to swap the input shaft housings. And you’re correct about the dedent ball stuff that holds the low range selector fork in place. No need to stress about that but the case will need to be shaved where the EJ dedent ball lives to fit the L series low range selector fork

I wonder if the EJ gear sets can be used with the PT4wd pinion shaft, I always thought not because my understanding was the lower gearset was pressed onto the pinion shaft unlike the EJ lower gearset that is pressed onto a tube that the pinion shaft slides into for independent rotational speeds. It’s got me thinking but I don’t have time to play to find out. If it was to work I’d recommend using the EJ gearset.

Cheers

Bennie

[Bumpty]

Reading through those old threads...it slowly dawns on me I've read them all before but back then had not the feintest idea what any of them were about

This! I'm currently reading this gearbox discussion ...and, I'm very much in the era of 'back then...'
I'll wait until this becomes an old thread where it slowly dawns on me that I've read it and then I'll draw my conclusions

Enjoying the content non the less and like Bennie said, that engine contrasts beautifully with the blue paint - golden attention to detail perhaps.

[henpecked]

always stunned at your attention to detail Sam, an EJ20 wagon is a very worthy Goal IMHO

[Silverbullet]

This weekend I've kinda taken two steps back, two steps forward to end up back where I was at the start Went to U-pull it again yesterday to get a P/S reservoir and some lines but me being a dummy didn't even take a photo of my P/S pump and of course I grabbed the wrong one Then remembered I have the lines at least from what I thought was this exact engine but I can't make them fit either, the pressure line with the banjo fitting has no chance of working with the pump that's on my engine...makes me think they changed the pump to a different design during the rebuild. Now I just can't work out what lines/reservoir I need except to say that it's definitely a remotely mounted reservoir

Decided to pull the intake manifold and clean it up. Glad I did; after taking everything off it I found a mud wasp blockage in one of the fuel lines. Replaced all the rubber hoses, pared down the wiring to remove some un-wanted sensors, made blanking plates and re-wrapped the engine loom with nice fabric tape. Attacked it with various wire brushes in drills and dremel then after multiple treatments of neat ali-brite (acid) and rinses it looks acceptable.




Quite good actually now it's all back together...now I'm eyeing off that scabby looking alternator...*sigh* guess I'll have to pull that apart to give it the same treatment now, this *quick* engine swap will never get done at this rate