Doug's EA81 Rebuild stuff.

[Subydoug]

Meh, Nah Jonno, think of it more as a nut case who likes pulling things apart .

Paul, no worries mate, I think now Im going to leave it. Im going to monitor it for a while and see what goes. Still got heaps of go when I feed it the berries .

Also Put 4 new plugs in thismorning. Fresh plugs are the best way to tell whats going on. Deffinately a little on the rich side at WOT....I don't have a smaller jet....Might just solder it up and redrill it. Still though I think they should show me what Im looking for.

With the CV, if they haven't done it yet, tell them to send it back, Il run it down to my old mans shed and fix it properly.

Regards

Doug

[RSR 555]

Okie dokey. Is there smaller jets on fleabay? or Jules might have some??

I've sent an email off to the CV mob, so we'll see how it goes. I was thinking (damn.. I'm starting to sound like Guyph ) that I could do with a spare left and right complete shafts in the car, just in case it happens again.

[Subydoug]

Yeah but they will take a week to get here. Ive got those 34 ICT's which might have some smaller jets inside them but Im reluctant to pull them apart just for parts. They need to find themselves over some heads soon .

Well if you got the bits its probably worth throwing in, even if they are like the shorter one It had in it originally. Should work to get you out of trouble. Aint the left and right sides the same???

Regards

Doug

[RSR 555]

Yes they do.. lots of talk but no action?? When are they going to make an appearance?

Unfortunately the short shaft was the one used to make the longer one and this car has the early model WRX diff that had an extra dickie part for the LSD on the LHR shaft, so have to keep 2 spares This is one of the reasons I like the xbread kit, as it keeps all the original shafts and only changes the drive hubs. The guy that built this car should really be shot for the craftsmanship work, as it's a real mess when you get close. One day I'll get Jayson to paint the spare body, so we can start the rebuild.

[Subydoug]

Yeah, been putting it off....kinda scared that all il do is wreck all driveability, use more fuel, complicate the hell out of my engine and produce a tsunami of issues just for some "Wank" factor and maybe an unnoticeable power chance. The progressive works beautifully....so why mess with it? If it aint broken don't fix it .

Unless your about to tell me how good twin carb ea81's perform and how hassle free setting up a twin snorter is???? If that's the case Il weld up some manifolds tonight .

Well there's always the shitbox rally score you got. Im sure its CV wont snap .

Regards

Doug

[RSR 555]

Why haven't you built up the second engine with all the goodies on it, then all you need to do is swap one for one whenever you have troubles? As you said, it only takes a couple of hours to have them swapped over and running again.

The twin carby setup is a lot better than the single but you really need the twin port head setup to help out. I'll show you a setup soon, which might change your mind.

I'd like to use the SB rally diff and axles but it's still running the 4 stud unlike the yellow beast which has this dodgy 5 stud setup

[Subydoug]

Eh, I think Id prefer to chase the EFI route with this Harley throttle body and go for the efficient route. Actually Ive really been considering modifying the heads on my other motor to be individual ports, like the sub-4 heads and what not. Got a friend who could TIG it all together for me, Get a Megasquirt ECU to make it MPFI. If that's something people would like to see then Il consider it, but not for a little while as I have other things up next like ej motors into wedge shaped things .

I just meant take the whole SB rally car, or is it in need of some TLC?

Regards

Doug

[RSR 555]

Ok. Did you want cut the twin port part out of an EA82 EFI head and cut/weld into a EA81 head? I might have a couple you could look at.

Oh.. I see.. nah, the SB rally car isn't lic'd and really want to keep that ready for next year's rally. I might just hound the CV joint until they cave in I might just put up a wanted on P-WRX

[steptoe]

Oh, Paul, is the SB rally being done in reverse next year so you will have to offload it and all its goodness on the east coast ? So you can fly back

Doug, count me in as one people who'd like to see you go to whatever efforts to be different. I ran twins, 16/56 cam on a rebore and gees it pulled well and gave good economy. It ran as best as I'd expected before I knew about twin port EA81S , well actually I had seen one just never knew how much better it would rev !

Tuning was not a problem, kitted them and installed - done !

[Subydoug]

Nah Paul all I really had in mind was cutting open the top of the intake runners and maybe sticking the heads into the mill and turning out a nice round hole....donno.....I can picture it in my head but other then that...

http://www.flygas.info/en/subaru-ea81-cylinder-head.htm

something like that.

Now that you mention it, where abouts does a stock ej mani come over the heads of an ea81? That way I could just run standard subaru gear If I did it, and they are more available then ea82 MPFI mani's.

Jonno, Yeah I kind of enjoy tinkering with the car's. Makes me sad when I go down to the drags, or down to a rally sprint. Almost everyone there is what I like to call a "bolt on guy". Pretty much the guy who's car goes the fastest is the guy with the biggest salary. No one these days really does their own thing or something different. IMHO even if the idea is completely flawed it doesn’t matter because there will always be something to get from the experience.

Il think about the twins. Shouldn’t take me any more then a few hours to make up a steel manifold or two. I have been procrastinating it for the last few weeks.....I just got some more argon. Il see what Im up to tomorrow.
My gut feeling is it will breath better with the twin carbies....maybe.... I really dont know Tuning them seems to be all about how good the linkage system I make is going to be.

Damn you Jonno, you make me wanna do it

Regards

Doug

[steptoe]

Really, the little old 1970's (or earlier?) engineering of the EA81 really limits it. It needs to get two cams a side, another eight valves, efi ...little reason why EJ converts pop up

I will never forget a dude pre me in a Subaru, him in a MY sedan, 2 or four door , original looking and it broke into a caucophony (sp?) of what I suspect was rotary power and bolted off like no ones business. It may have been a rotary, may have been a hot little twin port from back in the days of API imports. Was not turbo. Never saw it again.

Guess who has one more L Y pipe to install , reckon my twins need it

Over this side, Summernats seems to have gone biggest wallet, pay packet, credit card way too

[Tweety]

Pioneering? Being different? as opposed to "Bolt on guys"

Wont go on too much about this but 10 years ago I flew radio model aircraft. Most in our club purchased ARF "ready to fly" aircraft. Inside a pack you had most of what you needed and just put you radio in and engine and away you went. Much cheaper than building yourself. Not me.

I wanted to 'reinvent the wheel' and honestly had little success. One day I turned up with the "batplane". It had swing wings made from a quarter inch continuous thread inside the fuselage with a small electric motor on each end. Batman in the cockpit and Robin with a parachute. Two engines 10cc each. It was 7 foot wingspan and used to transport it on the top of my ute cargo area. It was too heavy so another engine went on the tail. Finally it flew- once!. Then crashed in some mud. Batman was decapitated. Robin was lost forever. But I had fun.

When I was in the Zephyr club the ones with the cash had the nicest cars. My beat up mark 3 was sprayed mandarin red, a torana colour. Few spoke to me, they didnt want to waste their time on a 'bomb'. Pity because anyone that came along and took the time found out I had a beaut mark 3 in my shed being restored. A rare torquise coloured model. This is the problem with arrogance that seems to flood automotive circles and I hate it.

Same with VW mechanics. Havent met one that doesnt know something more than all other VW mechanics.

Back onto twin carbs. From what I think- twin carbs should in theory be more economical than a single carbie. (I could be wrong there). Having had VW engines with twins and Lotus's with twin webers it seems logical to simply go a little higher in CC's to achieve similar performance. Lotus's in Escorts and Cortina's were 1558cc. When the Escort 2 litre came out it was just as fast and a single twin throat carbie and single overhaed cam as opposed to the Lotus tiwn cam. Of course the 1558 was brought out for racing under 1600cc against mini's etc but you get my point.

On these thread we are trying to extract much more power out of the cute little easy to work on EA81. We are willingly ignoring the EJ series. It defies logic. But then again, its fun and interesting and for those reasons alone its worth doing. And you dont need an engineers cert.

Now that I've permanently retired, once you guys get a half dozen easy to do modifications with a total of $500 cost and you all rock up at Strathbogie Victoria to carry out those mods in a pitstop 3 hours time frame I'm IN!. lol free sausages...ps dont tell the Mrs about the 500 bucks....

[RSR 555]

Nah Paul all I really had in mind was cutting open the top of the intake runners and maybe sticking the heads into the mill and turning out a nice round hole....donno.....I can picture it in my head but other then that...

http://www.flygas.info/en/subaru-ea81-cylinder-head.htm

something like that.

They look good but why wouldn't they have done the exhaust at the same time??

Now that you mention it, where abouts does a stock ej mani come over the heads of an ea81? That way I could just run standard subaru gear If I did it, and they are more available then ea82 MPFI mani's.

Never measured it but the EJ has a lot larger ports and wider bolting pattern then the EA82 EFI. I have plenty of EA82 EFI stuff if you want? Heads, Manifolds, Whole cars, etc..

[TOONGA]

you have a set of EA81 EFI heads as well don't forget, it wouldn't be hard to adapt the EA82 EFI stuff to those heads.



TOONGA

[RSR 555]

The EA81 EFI heads still have only 1 inlet port but could be ported for better flow. Personally the EA82 twin port would work better but would require more work. After looking at those gas heads that Doug posted, then I'd look at casting a new set of heads after making the twin port EA82 inlets into the EA81 heads. This way the EA82 EFI manifold would bolt straight on and allow for the water crossover pipe to work.

Man I so want to post up my carby setup

[Subydoug]

Jonno, I realise that its an old motor Pre the computer revolution. My point isnt about making lots of power and putting other motors to shame. I would deffinately EJ in that case and plan on doing it to the vortex . Nah my point being that with some stuff I have laying around, a few bucks of steel and a friend with a tig (or Il use my mig) I can get into my shed, have a project going and maybe learn a thing or two. Might be how to weld aluminium. Might be about port flow characteristics. Whats the bet 85% of the people at rally meets dont know one thing about induction tuning, they just buy this particular manifold, take their heads to this particular machine shop, bolt it all together and drive it.
Dont get me wrong I dont think there is anything wrong with doing that, its just not as appealing to me as someone who does the work themselves.

The other day at the RAC driving centre, their was this old mazda 2 coupe. Damn that thing flogged along. I saw it accelerating up the main straight and just light the rear wheels up at incredibly high rpm. Holding gears for twice as long as most other cars. Was a beast. If that old subie had something like that under the hood its no wonder .

Tweety, I two fly model planes. Done a bit of scratch building myself, though its a fair bit easier these days with modern rc electric motors and batteries. I never went as adventurous as your batplane but I did make a few model Gyro's,

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showatt. ... 1216293023

copied off a kit,

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showatt. ... 1240382215

my design. flew like a pig,

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showatt. ... 1259243657

First pusher,

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showatt. ... 1260428918

LOL!

I had a few other abominations but cant find pics. Dont feel too bad about the batplane .

Donno about the twins. Il go and get some steel after this post and make something up. Best way to know is to give it a try.

Donno Paul, maybe they felt it was unnecessary to do the exhaust. Probably more likely they would inhibit the water passages too much by doing it.

EA82??? ewwll nah thanks . Got one of those, not a big fan, Nah they alright. Make a good motor for a Daily especially with the MPFI. Great fuel economy.

Yeah Toonga, I know about the EFI heads. Wouldn't be to hard to do that to heads as long as the quality of the casting is good and there isn’t heaps of impurity. Same goes with welding separate ports.

Hmmm, I still think it would be easier to make a whole new manifold to suit the heads. Water crossover would be easy enough.
Paul, by all means post your carby setup. I would like very much

Anyway, enough rambling.

Regards

Doug

[RSR 555]

Donno Paul, maybe they felt it was unnecessary to do the exhaust. Probably more likely they would inhibit the water passages too much by doing it.

Maybe but from what I see of the head design, it would only be the oil drain back that would be slightly reduced and to me, really wouldn't effect it. I think they just used the single port because of the ease of their exhaust systems.

EA82??? ewwll nah thanks . Got one of those, not a big fan, Nah they alright. Make a good motor for a Daily especially with the MPFI. Great fuel economy.

Sorry, not the whole engine, just remove the twin port inlet section and place that into the EA81 head, thus allowing you to use the EA82 EFI manifold, which IMO is the best designed, especially the spider design. Once you've got the cut section in the right place on the EA81, then make a cast mould and produce some clean blanks to work from.

Yeah Toonga, I know about the EFI heads. Wouldn't be to hard to do that to heads as long as the quality of the casting is good and there isn’t heaps of impurity. Same goes with welding separate ports.

Yes these are my heads and these only have single inlet port. Jules was not the one talking about welding seperate sections in. I was and it was not to run the engine with weldered in pieces, just to use as a templete to create a new casting.

Hmmm, I still think it would be easier to make a whole new manifold to suit the heads. Water crossover would be easy enough.

I thought so too until I realized that the water pipe needs to be incorporated to stop icing.

Paul, by all means post your carby setup. I would like very much

I will in due time. I need to be home first to work on it. This working away gives you too much time to think about what I should do

[Subydoug]

Maybe but from what I see of the head design, it would only be the oil drain back that would be slightly reduced and to me, really wouldn't effect it. I think they just used the single port because of the ease of their exhaust systems.

Yeah probably.

Sorry, not the whole engine, just remove the twin port inlet section and place that into the EA81 head, thus allowing you to use the EA82 EFI manifold, which IMO is the best designed, especially the spider design. Once you've got the cut section in the right place on the EA81, then make a cast mould and produce some clean blanks to work from.

Hmm,yes I see where your coming from with that. Would make it easy in a way. Starts bordering on why not just run an ea82 but if the plan was to make lots of heads, well then It seems like an idea. When I was younger me and my dad used to melt down beer cans and cast them into a round billet for machining. Used to take about 40 beer cans to get a piece of aluminium about half the size of one can. Long story short you better start drinking up fella's .

Yes these are my heads and these only have single inlet port. Jules was not the one talking about welding seperate sections in. I was and it was not to run the engine with weldered in pieces, just to use as a templete to create a new casting.

Arh, I was referencing to the injector bosses that the head has. To turn some up in a lathe and weld them in wouldnt be too hard depending on the quality of the cast aluminium.

I thought so too until I realized that the water pipe needs to be incorporated to stop icing.

I would think heat soak from the motor would be enough after the engine's warmed up?

I will in due time. I need to be home first to work on it. This working away gives you too much time to think about what I should do

Manifolds are about half way made, still got to weld in the water outlets but its getting there.

Regards

Doug

[Subydoug]

Just some progress. Engine is deffinately still burning some oil. Its slowed right down but its still disappearing. Il see how it goes for a bit.

Got some mani's made for the twin carbies. I will admit that its next to my worst welding Ive done . When I went to get gas for my mig they only had a disposable bottle of argon, not Ag/CO2 mix. It welds steel like crap with argon, comes out like honeycombe . Fortunately the tube I used was reasonably thick so I pulled out the stick welder and finished most of it off with some 6013's. If its any good with twin carbies Il deffinately be making a new set of manifolds. Gave them a paint,



I had to step them inside toward the middle of the engine so they would clear the alternator and power steering pump. The picture makes them seem really tall but they are about 1" 1/2 below the oil filler cap. Will probably have hood clearance issues but twin scoops would fix that.

Anyway progress stopped for a few hours as I did the timing belts on the vortex. The mani's still need some vac nipples welded in and a larger outlet for the brake booster but Il do that when I get some migmix, so probably next weekend.

Regards

Doug

[Subydoug]

Hmmm, looking at my photo, see where the carby and the oil filler tube are, WTF is with the rectangle that looks like wood??? some Iphone glitch