Torsion bar adjustment instead of lift blocks

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JP147
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Torsion bar adjustment instead of lift blocks

Post by JP147 » Tue Mar 01, 2016 6:54 pm

Is there any reason why I shouldn't remove my 2" lift blocks from the rear of my MY wagon and just adjust the torsion bars so they are 2" higher?

I know that the CV joints will be at bigger angles, but now with lift blocks and the car level, the axles are angled down to the diff.

I want the shafts angled up towards the diff to make removal and installation of the rear shafts easier, but with them angled up and lift blocks at the same time, the rear of the car is higher and the front seems to hit on slopes quite often.

Having the rear torsion bar assembly higher would also give more ground clearance, and less chance to damage the tailshaft.
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Phizinza
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Post by Phizinza » Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:10 pm

Only down sides I can think of is the wheels go forward in the guards and camber goes more positive as you wind up.
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El_Freddo
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Post by El_Freddo » Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:14 pm

You could pull th out and tweak a tooth to make them higher and keep the lift in there.

Personally I wouldn't run without lift blocks in the rear - you'll end up looking like those blokes from the states with the rear wheel under the rear seat. Looks stupid IMO.

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Post by Bantum » Wed Mar 02, 2016 12:53 pm

Think of the torsion bar as a spring, so if you wind it up it will become firmer, to make the ride harsh & bouncy ... �� ... not sure you want to do that ... ?

As Bennie suggested, keep the lift in & adjust the bars by removal procedure, that way will adjust the ride level without compromising the suspenion travel too much ... ��

Ciao, Bantum ...

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JP147
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Post by JP147 » Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:11 pm

I will adjust it up a bit and see how it goes, then I will decide if I want to keep the lift in the rear or not.
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Phizinza
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Post by Phizinza » Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:48 pm

Winding the torsion bar up does not increase firmness. It only changes the resting position.
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Bantum
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Post by Bantum » Wed Mar 02, 2016 11:31 pm

That's not what it says in manual, as I've understood - as you increase / decrease the adjustment bolt it will add / release torque to the bar : ergo stiffer bar = harsher ride & vise versa soft bar = mushie ride.

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Which is probably one reason they don't mention it specifically & say to only adjust temporarily + return to normal as soon as practical ...��

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The other method mentioned, by removal of bar & rotating it a few splines - avoids messing with the sping effect & probably only advisable to do if he retains the lift blocks to keep geometry ... ��

Don't know if that has muddied the water, but as they say if in doubt, consult your manual's ... ;)

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El_Freddo
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Post by El_Freddo » Thu Mar 03, 2016 5:52 pm

Yeah torque applied to the position bracket. It's not changing the spring of the torsion bar - you'd have to physically swap the torsion bar to feel that difference.

The reason for having them re adjusted once you're done with the extra height is due to the camber and probably a bit of toe in that the rear wheels are subjected to when wound up without a load.

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Torqued ...

Post by Bantum » Fri Mar 04, 2016 4:15 am

All very good Bennie, but to quote the manual :
By turning the bolt in the end of the height adjustment arm, the torque on the torsion bars is increased or decreased with subsequent change in vehicle ground clearance.
Note the torsion bars are connected to the adjustment nut via arm ...

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Arm is thing in middle ...

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Just think about this for a minute : Take the concept out of car, if one end of bar is fixed by placing trailing arm in a vice & other end of bar is turned ( or put weight on ) with an extension or bit of pipe attached to the arm, guess what happens ? - Remember this is 'additional' to normal condition, So yes it does 'torque' the bars ... ;)

If you had a long enough bolt & room to adjust it either way, you'd see the same 'torque' applied when lowering it by this method - just the effect won't be as noticeable with such a small amount of adjustment though.

Best example I can think of is a clock spring - wind 'er up and it will add potential, let it go & will return to neutral + wind it back, still adds add potential, just in other direction ... :)

Probably going on about this a bit, but hate when I know I'm right ... Right ?

Bantum ...

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El_Freddo
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Post by El_Freddo » Fri Mar 04, 2016 6:50 am

Your example with the winding clock spring is correct. With the torsion bar it'll depend in wether or not the rear suspension maxes out so there's no droop. Then you'll really be winding up the rear end increasing stiffness.

Anyway. Not really wanting an arguement out of this - it's been an interesting conversation none the less ;)

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Post by Phizinza » Sat Mar 05, 2016 8:05 am

Springs only get stiffer as they are tensioned (twisted). Adjusting the torsion bar on the inner side only rotates the entire bar which is how it lifts the rear of the car. As Bennie said, if you are topped out (limited by the shock absorber) then you would twist the spring and the stiffness would increase. But if your suspension was topped out, you would also have a horrible ride. Pot holes feel like asteroid craters.
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Subydoug
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Post by Subydoug » Sat Mar 05, 2016 9:25 am

Lifting the car up with the torsion rod will swing the wheel forward in the wheel arch, reducing the distance between the contact patch of the tire and the pivot of the torsion rod on the horizontal plain, so technically it will actually give a stiffer initial spring rate but the effect will probably be undetectable.

Yes, Im just stirring you guys up :D.

You want to keep those cv shafts as straight and flat as possible. Wear on the joints and boots is a direct function of angle. So I would use a lift in the rear. It also gives you the ability to go even higher if you want when hung up on a rock.

Regards

Doug

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Post by pedroj » Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:16 pm

Thank's Bantum for posting those picture of your rear end that was out of the car, I have spent the day trying to clear out the centre triangle section that was completely full of dust, stones and small sticks. My Adjuster has been wound into FULL UP on my Brumby and trying to lower the rear end, hopefully the WD40 will do the job over the next few days, either that or the mini gas torch but nervous as the fuel tank is quite close ;)

Peter

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Post by henpecked » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:53 pm

for de-rusting and lubricating nuts, bolts etc, INOX , a lanolin spray, is the true miracle fluid, many many times more efficient than WD40.
almost every hardware store, and car parts store, has it

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Post by pedroj » Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:21 am

Thanks Henpecked,
I had a can of inox at home for a while but it ran dry so did not even think to replace it, bought WD40 instead... (the power of advertising) bee line to local M10 on way home as the bolt has only given up about 5 turns so far and arm is sore from lifting the large hammer to hit the extension arm of the socket:???:

I need to free up the pinion support bush bolt so will give them all a good soak, thanks for the tip.
Peter.

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