Gen3 Liberty - raising suspension

Neeek · Post by **Neeek** » Mon May 05, 2014 10:23 am

Hi Guys

I have a 99 Liberty that's no longer required as the runabout. Won't pass a RWC, so worth basically nothing... so I've floated the idea with some mates to turn it into a budget gravel rally car. As you do.

Most of the mods required are reasonably clear to us (such as cage, battery isolation switch, other safety things, etc), but I'm getting a bit confused with the suspension area. Clearly the car needs to come up as the stock suspension has it sitting very low - nice for the road, wont do at all for anything else.

I'm getting confused by lift kit vs Outback strut options.

I am assuming (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that if I whack a lift kit in there, I retain the existing Liberty suspension - spring rates, travel, etc. Which in theory gives me more ground clearance (an increase as per the lift kit, then), but with the Liberty's short travel suspension remaining, this will only bring the car up, rather than making it a bit more supple over the bumps.

Whereas if I install Outback struts and springs, the longer springs will give me more height (an inch, perhaps?) and the whole assembly will give me more suspension travel as well. Which sounds like the way to go, I think.

But then I've been reading up on using Outback struts with the Liberty springs and then adding the lift kit onto that as well... it's all getting a bit confusing.

Can someone please help me out with a rough plan of attack? End result I *want* is the car raised at least an inch, possibly two, but with a reasonable amount of suspension travel. Let's also assume that this is to be done as cheaply as possible, so I'm not thinking about anything aftermarket - just stuff that will bolt in and give the car a bit more ground clearance without stupid CV angles and the like.

Cheers!

Nick

vincentvega · Post by **vincentvega** » Mon May 05, 2014 10:27 am

put KYB outback struts and standard height king springs in the thing. it will handle a million times better than it does now and sit taller. how much depends on how shagged your current suspension is.

Neeek · Post by **Neeek** » Mon May 05, 2014 10:33 am

When you say STD height springs, do you mean STD Liberty or STD Outback?

vincentvega · Post by **vincentvega** » Mon May 05, 2014 10:35 am

look up the king springs part numbers online - they are the same for liberty and outback from memory.

its the strut thats taller, not the spring. That said your factory springs will be sagged, and the kings will sit much taller

wagonist · Post by **wagonist** » Mon May 05, 2014 11:20 am

A lift kit doesn't give you extra ground clearance, it just raises the body which helps with the approach & departure angles.
I wouldn't trust a lift kit with rally abuse.
Look around for the Bilstein suspension. It has thicker shafts (and may even be upside down) as these are the part of the suspension that'll bend first.

What's wrong with it that it won't pass roadworthy? Cos if its a clunker, then it also won't pass scrutining at an event.

Paddock basher/ speedway car/smash up derby car may be the end result rather than the rally car.

Also watch out for the roll cage. No one does one for the Liberty (mind you a lot of weld in cages are anyways). Why would you when you can use a cheaper, lighter, smaller Impreza

Neeek · Post by **Neeek** » Mon May 05, 2014 11:32 am

wagonist wrote:A lift kit doesn't give you extra ground clearance, it just raises the body which helps with the approach & departure angles.
I wouldn't trust a lift kit with rally abuse.
Look around for the Bilstein suspension. It has thicker shafts (and may even be upside down) as these are the part of the suspension that'll bend first.

What's wrong with it that it won't pass roadworthy? Cos if its a clunker, then it also won't pass scrutining at an event.

Paddock basher/ speedway car/smash up derby car may be the end result rather than the rally car.

Also watch out for the roll cage. No one does one for the Liberty (mind you a lot of weld in cages are anyways). Why would you when you can use a cheaper, lighter, smaller Impreza

Right, well now I know what the lift kit does, thank you! I'll avoid that option.

As for the RWC fail items, the clutch is just about dead, there's a couple of oil leaks from the rocker covers, the tyres are stuffed, the exhaust has a blow in it... just minor stuff really (apart from the clutch!). Not worth doing any of that to keep it on the road, or sell it on, when I can take it off the road, fix up as required over time and then on we go. It's not a clunker; everything works on it, but it's far from pristine! I figured it would be a solid base to start with.

Cage - yes, we'll weld one in. Zero dramas on that front... one of the "team" has fabbed up many cages over the years, and he's more than happy help.

As for using an Impreza... well, yes, that would be far more sensible, I suppose. But this Liberty is essentially a "free" car. I bought it for a couple of grand a year ago while I rebuilt the engine in my daily driver - that's all done now, so it no longer serves any purpose other than leaving oil stains on the road.

What better car to turn into a budget rally-er than a free, manual, 4WD sedan?

wagonist · Post by **wagonist** » Mon May 05, 2014 12:37 pm

Works for me.
I only mentioned about the Impreza cos of the cage situation. Much easier to get one for it.
And the rest of that stuff does sound pretty trivial, just like you said, adds up.

NachaLuva · Post by **NachaLuva** » Mon May 05, 2014 1:17 pm

Neeek wrote: As for using an Impreza... well, yes, that would be far more sensible, I suppose. But this Liberty is essentially a "free" car. I bought it for a couple of grand a year ago while I rebuilt the engine in my daily driver - that's all done now, so it no longer serves any purpose other than leaving oil stains on the road.

What better car to turn into a budget rally-er than a free, manual, 4WD sedan?

Yep sounds good

wagonist wrote:A lift kit doesn't give you extra ground clearance, it just raises the body which helps with the approach & departure angles.

A full body lift kit wont give you more clearance under the engine, but a strut lift kit will.

I wouldn't trust a lift kit with rally abuse.

A strut lift should be ok, but a body lift might cause probs like cracking in the chassis

vincentvega wrote:put KYB outback struts and standard height king springs in the thing. it will handle a million times better than it does now and sit taller. how much depends on how shagged your current suspension is.

+1

Also, keep a lookout for someone wrecking an Outback & grab the trailing arm mounts. These are 1" taller to allow for the 1" taller OB struts.

PS: OB struts & springs are 1" taller than Liberty ones, but you might find you get more than 1" as your current springs are prob shagged lol

Neeek · Post by **Neeek** » Mon May 05, 2014 1:28 pm

Yep, now on the lookout for s/h Outback struts, thank you.

Next door neighbour but one has a suitable Outback... wonder if he wants to lower it...

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Tue May 06, 2014 12:09 pm

There are lots of other components in the Outback that are not in the Liberty to make the higher ground clearance. I would suggest you find someone selling/parting out an Outback of the same model as your car. 1999 was the year they changed from Gen2 to Gen3 in the Liberty (I see you put Gen3 in the title but just making 100% sure), so can you give me the first 6 digits of your VIN? as the Gen3 is not the best for raising the body. The Gen3 uses the multi-link rear suspension and doesn't have the articulation of the earlier models but they handle very well on flat gravel surfaces.

Neeek · Post by **Neeek** » Tue May 06, 2014 12:39 pm

RSR 555 wrote:There are lots of other components in the Outback that are not in the Liberty to make the higher ground clearance. I would suggest you find someone selling/parting out an Outback of the same model as your car. 1999 was the year they changed from Gen2 to Gen3 in the Liberty (I see you put Gen3 in the title but just making 100% sure), so can you give me the first 6 digits of your VIN? as the Gen3 is not the best for raising the body. The Gen3 uses the multi-link rear suspension and doesn't have the articulation of the earlier models but they handle very well on flat gravel surfaces.

Yep, 100% it's a Gen3. Here's Floyd, as we've come to call him:

And the VIN:

Sounds like a body lift is out now that I know what it actually does (reasonably useless for my purposes). But yeah, the plan is to find a suitable Outback donor from somewhere and rape it for the necessary suspension parts.

As for handling, I have no idea how it's going to feel on gravel when I'm done with it, but if the current roadholding is anything to go by... well, it's a hoot to stuff into corners hard as it is! Bit of understeer if you plough in too hard, but great traction on the exit. Hasn't got much power, but it's perfectly adequate for having a bit of fun with.

At the end of the day, the only reason I want to hoik it up is because I think it'll be bottoming out a bit on the bumpy stuff at speed. I always thought it might've been lowered, but I'm not completely sure - you do kind of fall into the seat when getting in, but I guess I'm more used to the wife's 4wd wagons and my American toy.

Might actually give it a blat down some forest tracks I know later this month to see how the current suspension copes. I know the tyres aren't going to cope with that, but I suppose it'll give me an idea of how it feels now.

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Tue May 06, 2014 1:17 pm

Yep.. Floyd is definitely a Gen 3 Series 1 model RX and very lucky to find this in manual, as most were autos.

If you're going to run as it is (and I see no reason why not) then I would recommend you fit a bash plate under the front. Remove the crappy plastic one and replace with an aluminium checker plate one, so you can protect the sump. The EJ25 SOHC is a good start and Subaru used these in the RS25 challenge in the Impreza. The only other recommendation I can make (without going over board on modifying) is to grab a set of gravel spec tyres and go have some fun

Liberty Valance · Post by **Liberty Valance** » Sun May 11, 2014 5:23 pm

Suggestion........ buy my car and fit your later model engine and transmission.

showthread.php?t=24965

RALLY READY WEAPON !!!!

Neeek · Post by **Neeek** » Mon May 12, 2014 10:54 am

Liberty Valance wrote:Suggestion........ buy my car and fit your later model engine and transmission.

showthread.php?t=24965

RALLY READY WEAPON !!!!

Thanks, but no thanks. Won't be Floyd then, will it.

Liberty Valance · Post by **Liberty Valance** » Mon May 12, 2014 7:34 pm

But does Floyd have the rally pedigree that Liberty Valance has ???

Disclaimer: photos for illustration purposes only and may not actually be photos of Liberty Valance