Leone RX suspension lowering

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Sat May 19, 2012 9:21 am

Well the FrWD rear struts are actually longer because they mount lower on the semi trailing arms than the 4WD ones do . Dimensionally I think early (85-86) RX Turbos had the best rear struts and they used the same slightly higher rate springs as the L RX coupes . Don't quote but I think the spring rates were something like 160 vs 180 in/lbs where the wagons are I think 197 . If you could buy these early genuine height adjustable RX struts and modify the lower spring seat to sit lower that would work .
What make life difficult with L struts is the unique top rod section thats longer above the shoulder to take the double rubber bush mount .
I nearly cried when my old rally specialist said he found a set of used Koni L rear struts and cut them down to suit his Khana Cross buggy ...

I don't know exactly where RTA legislation is ATM but the old rules stated 1 inch over standard diameter and 1 inch total over track width - meaning max + 1/2 inch each side .
I think you'll find that the wheels are aimed at suiting the original car rather than a different drivetrain fitted to it . The dynamics of a Lib or Impreza are very different to an L Series as is their suspension design and geometry .
They went away from semi trailing arms for good reasons though I'm not a great fan of the front offset wishbone design . The hub/bearing offsets are all different and better able to cope with larger heavier wheels with different wheel offsets .
When you have a heavier std vehicle you can run heavier wheels and keep an acceptable ratio of sprung to unsprung weight . At 1070 Kg an RX turbo is pretty ligh by todays standards for a car of its size . Partly what keeps them light is the lack of - stuff - late model cars have and being light means they don't need huge brakes . A WRX - even a GC8 would be significantly heavier than a std config L and use larger heavier wheels which amongst other things have higher rotating innerta and take more stopping .
All this is really hard in Australia because we didn't get XT6s . The ER27 would have made possibly more power than an RX L Sedan in a certainly heavier car . They use similar sized brakes to an early Lib and they would not have got compliance in the US of all places if they weren't adequate .
We really really needed XT6 front and rear stuff because it would be the lightest adequate gear you could fit to an L platform (XTs are a slightly modified L floorpan) and had the right wheel offsets as well .
Had I had my time over again I would have bitten the bullet and begged/bribed someone to send a set of XT6 bits out here for me minus the consumables like bearings/seals/pads . I nearly succeeded in doing this but the person at the other end didn't want to get their hands dirty removing the bits I didn't want to pay freight for . I should have just got it all and ordered in new bearings discs pads CVs and started fresh and new .
An XT6 donor solves ALL the problems and I wouldn't even bother telling an engineer if they didn't know the difference - with an EA82 heart anyway . Play dumb , I bought it like this .

Anyway as I said I ran out of cost effective sollutions and just learnt to live with certain things like wheels and brakes .
I did think about non std engines but for the hoops you have to jump through and the fast drying up supply of good engineers it looked too hard compared to buying an earlier lighter Impreza . Lots of good bits fall into Imprezas even NA ones and they are getting cheap to buy . This is why I was considering a GC8 RS if they'd had EJ25s . I think a later 22 would be more than adequate for a daily and Rex wheels and brakes go bolt . Already AWD and 4 wheel disc and lots of suspension stuff available . Factory compliance too .

RX Ls are not impossible to improve but you start out with older engineering limitations that are hard to fix if parts from the same family ie XT6 aren't available .

A .

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat May 19, 2012 9:54 am

Irrespective of FWD V's 4WD geometry my comments coming from sitting, side by side the FWD rear coil genuine and the genuine RX rear coil spring from memory. 9.9mm wire thick, for FWD coil, 10.5mm wire thick on the RX coil, sat same height. Another moment steptoe regrets tossing them, also regrets two FWD sedans for $100 offer a few years back .....

Disco mentions XT6 parts, T'subarus XT6 has same spring measures and yellow paint daubs as our genuine RX rear coils and sits nice same as my Vortex XT4

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat May 19, 2012 9:59 am

it is up to 15mm more than rolling tyre , or no more than down 25mm , but then that is for passenger cars, 4WD's are different - more up mm, so where does a 4WD passenger car stand ??

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Sun May 20, 2012 6:32 pm

Just took some measurements from ground to top of wheel arch

Front right = 635mm
Front left = 640mm
Rear right = 690mm
Rear left = 710mm

The car is not on level ground so that may explain the slight differences between left and right, but front to rear there is pretty much 60mm of difference.

Can you Jono and Adrian both measure yours in the same way (ground to top of wheel arch) so we can compare?
Maybe even include a photo? It was dark by the time I got to my car so too late to take a photo myself

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sun May 20, 2012 7:18 pm

Not level ground ?! Thank goodness you are not a bricklayer

I'll get out and find some level and take some measures for you......

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Mon May 21, 2012 5:47 am

Mines in the cave atm so can only get to offside , it sits a little high in the back but I think wagons do anyway .

A .

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Mon May 21, 2012 8:42 pm

Something I forgot to mention is that the front struts are Pedders units, not factory KYB. But I doubt this will make a difference.

I know of a guy who might have a pair of front 97 WRX struts so I'll give him a ring tomorrow and see how they compare

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Tue May 22, 2012 9:34 am

and what we should be measuring is not just eyebrow height but ground to wheel centre vertical and continue up to eyebrow as itr is the axle centre to eyebrow that measures the springs effect on things

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Tue May 22, 2012 9:44 am

Yeah thats probably a better idea as I have bigger tyres than you.

So centre of axle to top lip of wheel arch. I'll re-do my measurements when I get out to the car next which is about 30kms away

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Wed May 23, 2012 11:06 pm

OK L GLTA with RX factory rear suspension sits on 175 70 13 tyres...
off the outermost end of rear suspension crossmember tube swing arms off is 230mm to ground both sides

the same measure for front from LCA bolt centre to ground is 235mm

right rear wheel:
. centre to arch, vertically 360mm
. ground to arch 625mm
so, about 265mm from ground to wheel centre

left rear wheel

ground to arch is 620mm, so lost 5mm from right, in the spring, maybe the North NSW coast one

front right:

grd to arch 615mm....615mm minus 260mm grd to wheel centre 355mm? TBA

front left:

. grd to arch 618mm

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Tue May 29, 2012 9:56 pm

Ok... still on unlevel ground, but this time measured from centre of wheel to highest point of wheel arch

Right rear - 410mm
Left rear - 400mm
Right front - 360mm
Left front - 365mm

So why is my bum so high in the air if wagon rear struts are the lowest? I know the fuel tank is empty, but it shouldnt make that much difference.
What if I used 4wd sedan rear springs in the wagon struts?

It seems I have to drop the rear 60mm to level with the front. I saw on the USMB where somebody turned the rear strut mount upside down, (actually I think ElFreddo did too) to loose some height.

I also scored some WRX front KYB Blue struts with suppose'ed lowered springs. Do I dare try them and find I have to lower the rear even more?

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Tue May 29, 2012 11:54 pm

springs, springs , springs

when I shoved in 85 rear struts on the lowest setting with wagon springs pink,green or pink orange the bum went up about 60mm measured at rear bumper centre.

Rear strut mount upside down is a furphy - just ask Neville

You really want RX rear coils with yellow paint daub .....

Jonno toddling off to Pedders to see if there is a number for rear coils FWD L Series. Let you in a secret - Suzuki Mighty Boy front coils, get the top and bottom coil forced into size to fit strut mounts .....

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Wed May 30, 2012 12:27 am

Gannon wrote:I saw on the USMB where somebody turned the rear strut mount upside down, (actually I think ElFreddo did too) to loose some height.

I've not turned anything upside down on my rear end

Dad's got some lowered front honda springs that would fit the rear of an L series, but I don't know how low they'd make the rear end or how stiff they'd be to drive with... It could be a bit of an experiment - they look like pedders kit, red in colour.

Sedan springs on the "wagon" 4wd struts makes sense to me.

Cheers

Bennie

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Wed May 30, 2012 6:12 am

Hey I just remembered, I have a pair of red rear springs in the shed somewhere

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Wed May 30, 2012 9:21 am

Oh, yeah, and they will be sedan for sure .... ???

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Wed May 30, 2012 9:43 pm

steptoe wrote:Oh, yeah, and they will be sedan for sure .... ???

I doubt it, they were floating around in the boot of a parts wagon we bought.

Im still confused on how wagon struts/springs can make it lower than 4wd sedan struts/springs when my bum is 60mm too high with wagon struts/springs

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Wed May 30, 2012 11:13 pm

it is in the spring unsprung height, and poundage of spring. I am sure my sedan has 150mm from bottom bolt hole to seat - if you can imagine what minus two feels like for a moment I'll go out and check ......

lucky for you only 2.3 C outside, fridge off the grid tonight

I'll emil to satisfy or confuse you more

sammynb · Post by **sammynb** » Thu May 31, 2012 2:24 pm

As an aside, has anyone tried running the rear suspension off the Liberty that allegedly fit?
Obviously they would open up a host of options to use coilovers for even more adjust-ability.

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Thu May 31, 2012 6:31 pm

You mean rear struts from a Gen3. I know they have a larger hole in the bottom mount that requires a bush to be made to accommodate the smaller L series bolt.

If I could afford coilovers, I would have gone that way by now, but this is a budget build

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:22 pm

had a quick look, rear springs have orange paint on them.