Making an MY Sedan handle better

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:31 pm

Ok.... now that you have stopped laughing.

Im planning mods to make my MY sedan handle a little better. I'll begin with new shocks and bushes, but as for mods, i cant find much about it.

So my questions are....

1. Can i get vented MY front rotors, or do i have to upgrade to L series front hubs and brakes?

2. What can i do with the front swaybar? It appears to be hollow. Do other models have solid swaybars or do i have to go aftermarket e.g Whiteline?

3. I plan on using L series rear trailing arms, discs and swaybar... Will this make the rear track wider and do L series trailing arms work with the torsion bar?

Car is gonna have an EJ20 and hopefully an EJ 4sp auto (or a EA 3sp 4wd till i do)

Thanks in advance

Xtreme_RX · Post by **Xtreme_RX** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:51 pm

1. Yes the 1984 wagon had vented front rotors. Buy you need all the bits

2.Aftermarket is really your only solution. you can get a 24mm one made for the 'MY'.

3. Why do you want to use 'L' series rear trailing arms? The 'L' series disks bolt up to the 'MY' trailing arms....

Any more questions please ask...

Matt · Post by **Matt** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:55 pm

In answer to some of your questions....
1. Yes you can get MY vented discs, but you are better off going the L Series ones if you have to buy them as they are bigger diameter discs. (Note the hub is different and outer cv is different).
2. Whiteline use to do one i believe and also an RX Rear, (would possibly fit with the L Series rear end, check this with other members as i am not 100 %)
3. I believe the L series arms do work but i don't think they will make the track wider(again could be wrong)

Also have a look at this thread.... If you want any more details let me know...

showthread.php?t=4369

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:06 pm

Thanks for the speedy replys.

1. Sweet,. i have an 84 toruing wagon for parts. If i get slotted, vented rotors, that should give me ample stopping power for my EJ20

2. I thought aftermarket would be the anwser. A What sorta $$$ would i be looking at?

3. I was gonna use the L rear arms to make use of the RX rear swaybar. But the MY sedan is rather small in the rear end, so i might not need to. I'll just put the RX discs on it.

I think im gonna have to drop the engine cross-member to fit the 4sp auto in. This should also give me a little more negative camber on the front wheels.

Has anybody ever fitted a 4sp EJ auto into an MY?

Another question,...

What else can i do to help stopping power? Can i upgrade the vac booster and master cylinder easily?

AndrewT · Post by **AndrewT** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:18 pm

In my opinion MY front rotors will not give ample stopping power for an EJ20 powered car (vented, slotted or whatever). You still have ancient single piston caliper and minature diameter discs which are the main things that make a difference (diameter the most).
Ideally go for Crossbred conversion to get real brakes.

I've still developed an early braking habit to stay safe in my EJ20 turbo RX L series and she runs rear discs and the fronts are brand new L series ventilated / slotted.

The 1984 slotted/vented discs will certainly be better than the originals, just don't expect to be able to keep up with even a stock EJ16 Impreza if there are any corners involved

btw you should be able to fit a Liberty brake booster and matching 1" master cylinder without too much trouble, this gives better response from the brakes but again not a massive actual braking power improvement.

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:03 pm

Thanks Andrew,.. every bit of information helps

Im not gonna be using it for racing or track days, just for general driving.

I just want brakes that will pull me up when i need to.

As good as a crossbred brake conversion would be, its in the too expensive basket at the moment

I'll look more into L series front brakes.
How much does it increase the front track width?

brumbyrunner · Post by **brumbyrunner** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:44 pm

Not sure on the L series front brakes thing but I do know a bit about the trailing arms. It is a major task to fit an L series rear end in an MY and I cant see what you would gain except track width. The wheel travel and lack of camber/caster/toe adjustability are the same. I would leave it torsion bar.
If you want a heavier spring rate, use a Brumby torsion bar or alternatively, fit rear coilovers. To lower the rear, clock the torsion bars down a tooth on the spline.

Bearing in mind that Crossbred do sponser me, if you add up all the benefits of Liberty brakes on all corners, Liberty front struts (or coilovers) and the huge choice of wheels, they're pretty good value. If you're going to keep it for a while and enjoy better handling, you should do this first.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:19 pm

My 84 has vented discs on front. I think the caliper is a match to the venteds as is a pad change. I am planning to fit up L series front hubs for the bigger pad of the L for my Brumby. This will make off the shelf CV shafts a thing of the past because I need to fit L series CV joint for the hubs and retain the rest of MY stuff - same really. What it will be will be Brumby shaft between L series DOJ and its CV half

An L series rear sway bar is too long for an MY 4WD rear end as standard - tried it!

My 84 sedan FWD also had a hollow sway bar, bloody certain the BRumby is a solid, try one first. 15 inch rims with 195 50 15 improve tarmac handling but not good for dirt work

Maybe 4wd L series rear shocks fit with their coil over springs ??

Was it Brumby 90 who did a complex rear end in his Brumby ??

Matatak · Post by **Matatak** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:41 pm

Vented MY rotors and Rear discs on my car i never had a problem with insufficent braking or brake fade. pulled me up fine when i stabbed them.
almost 100% my swaybar was solid (didnt run with one in the end either)

L series rear shocks & springsfit but lift it like 2 inchs dont they ?

i never had a problem with the handling or braking of my wagon the only thing that use to shit me was FWD with an EJ22 on the corners (basically dont bother touching the throttle)

Phizinza · Post by **Phizinza** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 12:49 pm

The negative caster on these sedans is a killer for handling. Try http://offroadingsubarus.com/83sedan_radiusrods.html.

Anti sway bars both my 89 Brumby and 83 wagon had 22mm (? maybe 20mm) solid anti sway bars. I used to think it as 4wd solid 2wd hollow but have been told solids are aren't as common. I think I still have one down the paddock.

AWD makes soooo much difference, well it did in my Brumby over fwd. The sedans aren't as easy to stick 4wd into though. http://offroadingsubarus.com/83sedan_4wd.html

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:25 pm

if you do the L hubs but retain the MY lower control arms my theory is that the track does not change. the way things are you will beat me to this discovery if it works

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:39 pm

oh, and from memory ej into my the front sway bar off an auto my is needed for it has a wider hump in the middle to clear your (manual ) gearbox.

the Baron may be a little busy changing nappies, but check his old posts

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:29 pm

Once again thanks for the input

Im converting from 3sp fwd to 3sp auto 4wd, so i shouldnt have issues with tranny clearance or sway bar. I wonder why there was only captive nuts for the diff carrier on one side?

I think L hubs wont work with MY control arms cos the ball joint on the bottom is different

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:40 pm

Anti Roll bars no prob , can have made whatever you want .
If you have a decent fabricator they could make arm mounts easily enough .

You really have to lose that front positive camber if you have it .

If funds allow put rear struts in it with small diameter springs .

Have a look at a genuine MY or L WSM - at the cross sectional diagram through the 4WD rear hub and drum . Note how the stud heads are low profile on the inner brake shoe side .
Wonder if the inner face had 5 milled spot facings and 5 holes drilled on a 100mm PCD . Possibilities ...

IMO L/XT4 rear disc brakes were a marketing exercise , they really are tiny so don't lose sleep if you stay with drums .

Purely for handling (vs cross country) you really need to increase roll stiffness or it'll wallow all over the place and understeer to destruction .

The only limit is your budget .

A .

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:15 pm

discopotato03 wrote: The only limit is your budget .
.

How very true

So plan so far is to upgrade to 84 MY vented and (whats better,.. vented or slotted) front discs
RX rear discs
Solid front swaybar
4wd rear end
Less positive camber somehow (most likely by dropping the engine crossmember)

Opinions?

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:37 am

I'm a fine one to say it but I have my reasons - small and light .

The trouble with these old cars is that you have to do everything to them to make them stop handle and steer - and it costs .
If your goals are modest it doesn't have to break the bank but if you want it all I think you're better off starting with something that has better technology from the factory .

If I had no kids I'd be zipping round in an early MX5 , handle like a go cart and if you turbocharge the DOHC 16V BP16/BP18 they are a weapon .
1000 Kg , 50 50 weight distribution and propper multi-link independent suspension all round .

You'll all hate this but you won't get ultra handling from Subie , too much weight on the front and less than optimal suspension design .
Have a quick look at BMW M3's , long inline 6 - and they still have 50 50 weight distribution . Impossible to do with Sube FR/AWD because the engine must be ahead of the front diff and bellhousing . If you move the engine back then the drive shaft angularity (forward) is unworkable . Hate to say it but transverse engine AWD is far better in this area because the crank center line can be almost parallel with the driveshaft couplings , the gearbox is ahead of the firewall so the gears can be larger diameter and much strounger .
Twer a FrWD platform with RWD as an afterthought and these days they still are . If the understeer doesn't get you the handgrenaded transmissions will .

Only options are to keep the mechanicals as light as possible and have suspension geometry as good as it practically can be .
Turbocharging the existing engine is one of the better ways of increasing performance while not adding the weight of later engines .
I'd search for an EA81T engine , factory fit in MY .

A.