Leone RX suspension lowering

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:20 pm

Brumby Kid wrote: Why are your springs/ struts at different heights?
Don't you have 4 struts the same size?

Because I have Liberty struts in the front for the crossbred conversion (I'm happy with this height) but the rear springs I have are from a wagon, which makes it too tall in the rear.
This is because the wagon has taller, stiffer springs to support its heavier rear end.

Im trying to get it sitting level, but trying to avoid buying the wrong gear by researching thoroughly first

As its sitting now

Front arch 640mm from ground

Rear arch 710mm from ground

125mm to centre of bolt

260mm compressed with empty fuel tank and boot

Im pretty sure its pink and orange in this clearer pic

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:40 am

710mm !! You won't scratch yer tank

when out and about. That left rear wheel looks a little too forward??

Getting sills level should look good.

Where is Bennie and his rear coils ?? Postage is cheap.....

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:23 pm

Browsing in the local parts store today I stumbled across these and the name on the label caught my eye. Honda Civic lowered springs for front and rear

But I think they are from the Civic after the one that fits L series, these taper down at the bottom by about 20mm.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:53 pm

Just maybe , some advice given by someone to someone else a while back

QUOTE > Is it possible to slightly trim a bit off the end of the springs to bring the rear back down? Either that or carry a dozen bricks in the boot as and call it 'self levelling ballast < END QUOTE'
__________________
Gannon

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:00 pm

Or, follow up the spring techs suggestion from Pedders help centre in Melbourne ? of the Suzuki mighty boy and some Sierra front coils being rated very similar to what I wanted before, just the top and bottom coils needed some encouragement to reduce the diameter. Pedders were offering to do the job on the springs if I bought them, using a press and some dies ??

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:03 pm

Suzuki
Mighty Boy
1985-1988 SS40T

Front Spring Standard
7413 Pedders Trakryder Coil Spring

Can that suggestion, I was trying to achieve Mr No Bulls measures supposedly achieved with other springs, on my Vortex and that was gonna be too low . Got factory specs minimum of the Vort with RX rear coils.

Try a wrecker in the US for RX sedan rear coils in a flat rate USPS box $65 plus springs ?? So long as they are black originals with yellow dot, 10.4mm wire diameter ......

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:48 pm

I was looking at the KYB site and they show 2 different centre of eye to bottom of spring mount lengths for their rear shocks, 129mm and 136mm. I'll assume this is the difference between FWD and 4WD, but only 7mm?

King springs show 2 different rear coils, sedan and wagon. Nev used new kings in his Vortex, but Im not sure what ones.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:34 pm

Pedders mans words was compromise of their supply only one part number for both FWD sedan and 4WD wagon. Guess we can leave them out. Kings may be more helpful in that they have two rear coils then, worth a call or email to get some techo specs, tell them what you want ??

What about some nice Boral self levellers

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:04 pm

Ok I'll email King and ask for wire thickess and uncompressed length, as well as their rated lb/in for both sedan and wagon.

While we are talking rear suspension, has anyone obtained rubber replacement bushes for the rear trailing arms? The local parts store only has listings for polyurethane, and I'll stick to Adrians advice and stick to rubber

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:16 am

Genuine or Mackay runbber - they got a website I think

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:56 am

Yeah it was a Mackay rubber catalogue, but the parts guy told me that any part number that ends with a "U" is a urethane bush.

From the Mackay website.
R Trailing arm bush kit - A2391U

From Pedders
EP7200 Urethane Lower Trailing Arm Bush (For Metal Cased) (4 PKT)
EP7215 Urethane Lower Trailing Arm Bush (For Non Metal Cased) (4 PKT)

Nolathane
R Trailing arm - lower bushing 46200 Shell bushing design (to reuse old shell use 46215 kit)
R Trailing arm - lower bushing 46215 Urethane only installs into original shell (for shell bushing use 46200 kit)

No listing from whiteline

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:30 pm

Just measured the pink orange rear coil I have, 10.5mm and 9 coils in total.

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:02 am

Spring suppliers are often reluctant to give details of their products . There is a formula to work out a springs rate using the wire diameter and uncoiled length , and the number of turns the coil spring has .
Back in my Bluebird days my ex rally mechanic was ordering springs made to his specs and I had a couple of sets made up too . There is an element of trial and error here and it can be frustrating .
With the RX L Series I gave up trying to get the rear ride height right and concentrated on getting it to handle better by increasing its rear roll stiffness with a larger anti roll bar . This made the greatest single difference to my L handling because reducing the rear body roll is what stops the woefull geometry changes .
Reducing the terminal front understeer can only be fixed by altering the front strut geometry .
Ls fight you all the way because there is no production bits that make them much better .

A .

PS Gannon I'll remember you with my one off anti roll bars if I ever part this car of mine out . They made a big difference to the way Ellie drives .

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:42 am

I chopped out about 3/4's of a coil of these - wasted time. But you could chop more out just to get a desired standing height adjustment but don't expect it to pass any blue slip.....

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:55 am

I have no intention of cutting up a wagon spring, i only got measurements for a comparison to standard sedan springs & rx springs. If bennie has these sedan springs important after, I'll give them a shot.

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Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:06 pm

Got an email back from King
KSRS-02 - 280mm FH, 11mm Material, 245lb/"
KSRS-03 - 280mm FH, 12mm Material, 320lb/"

This seems quite a bit higher in spring rate than the 160lb and 197lb mentioned earlier

nncoolg · Post by **nncoolg** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:27 pm

Yeah, they feel good in there aye.
would go well with WRX struts and springs up front...

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:19 pm

Reason given to me is that most after market companies up the rate by about 20% as there would be no improvement over standard rate. Problem is if the uprated spring makes car sit higher due to its rate - back in same position with less money in yer wallet.

What you need is someone like Disco - closer to KMAC, send chosen struts and springs down to fitted up to their RX, taken in to be measured up, ripped out, reset ....

what about a call to Paul at Subareck in Adelaide or Steve Rising Sun to see if they have an RX wreck ?

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:14 am

The trouble is that there are a few unique to L features in these rear struts - all are compromises . It starts with the soft spongy bushings at the foot of the struts , shocks if you like .
These are designed to allow the lower bushes steel crush tubes to flex and followthe angularity of these horrible short semi trailing arms . In a competition app you'd use spherical bearings to allow movement without slop .

The top mount allowed Subaruto get away with not having rear strut towers . The angled mount needs extra rubber bushes and an extended upper threaded section above the step on the shock rod . Very few struts are like this and nothing is available that bolts in .

Gannon all I think you can do easily is to have a tube with the lower spring seat welded to it and a top section closed with a hole in it to go over a wagon rear strut like a sleeve . If you had such a thing made you have to be carefull that the spring has at least a small amount of preload so it stays put between the seats .
In an ideal world both the strut and spring would be a tad shorter and set up for higher rate rear springs . The fact that sedans don't get wagon style rear bump stops is a real pest . Sedan struts are set up to do the bump stop thing and to have enough travel with a softish spring the ride height is up and the spring and total strut length fairly long .
The compromise means Ls sit up in the bum , its not a major disadvantage if you can stop most of the body roll like I did and they become much more stable with larger anti roll bars - particularly at the back .
The rear height changes quite markedly with the fuel tank empty to full .
Trust me you don't want to know what they're like with a full tank and another 60L in containers in the boot . And 20L of water and 20 Kilos of tools behind the front seats .

Sit up in the front then , cheers A .

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:20 am

"Getting further - Neville has measured his orange dab as 9.90mm wire thickness and stands free at 285mm

My yellow dot ones most likely RX ones also stand at 285mm. YAY you say??
Not yet, as yellow dot wire thickness is 10.40mm

The two dot wagons springs are 10.80mm wire thickness

Gotta now ask why specs say 160 lb/in springs for all our ADM stuff was 160 for all sedans or 196 for wagons. A change to suit local market needs? Maybe the yellow dot are the 3 door 180 lb/in springs after all - as Disco thought earler L models were?? "

dragged up from another post - also suggest by self that 285mm may be a little short for keeping spring secure when body lifted with hoist or jack and wheels dangling - 290mm may be better fit in strut

And a recommendation from Sven2 for industrialsprings.com.au also known as Aurora, In Hindmarsh SA offering ? three levels of spring but me bets not for L Series RX rear