89 Brumby Brake Improvments

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Subydoug
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Post by Subydoug » Fri Nov 29, 2013 8:33 pm

Had a look for you'll. My wagon is dated 11/82. Disks on the front are solid, not vented. Diameter would be close to 220 or 230mm, couldnt measure it that well. Looks like the whole knuckle with caliper bracket is one piece like jonno said earlier though it was pretty filthy in there and I wasnt too keen to dig in. Also found out the annoying noise Ive been hearing lately. Talk about a flogged out ball joint :D.

Im pretty sure the disks on my FWD vortex are vented. Not sure on sizes and pads or anything else. I stops orders of magnitude better then the wagon. Donno weather its because of disk rear, different vac assist, master cylinder...who knows but I do feel its more to do with just the rear disks.

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Post by steptoe » Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:46 am

..... the 86 - 92 parts catalogue lists all front L Series and Vortex varieties as having same front caliper components right through the years range with the exception of brake pads changing for asbestos and the europe market ? Only other change was the bolt that hold the handbrake cable bracket.

The component the workshop manual calls an anchor, Gregories - a bracket, the parts diagram calls it a support!

An earlier post I deleted was thinking out too loud, thinking if the anchor support bracket remained with the carit would limit the pads to the original smaller pads.

The gain would be as Paul suggests, being able to use the L pad which is about 40mm 2 larger area.


What is it Gannon says ?? "Photos or it never happened "

scratching head .....

think Gregories states 13/16" or metric equivalent for both MY and L master cyl bores

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Post by Gannon » Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:29 am

steptoe wrote:.....
What is it Gannon says ?? "Photos or it never happened "
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Post by RSR 555 » Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:45 pm

Ok.. so you had enough yet?

The L.Series fronts will not fit the MY Series. Only the rears will swap over, so I highly recommend you use the RX Turbo disc setup but they are getting harder to find.

Jonno and Ray, if you want better front brakes then just go with the post-1983 Leone vented and slotted discs with a set of high quality brake pads
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Post by RSR 555 » Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:00 pm

Just been speaking to my brake man and he said there is 2 sizes of disc rotors for the Brumby. 230mm and 242mm both rotors use the same caliper and pads. For upgrades he recommends you use the 242mm rotor that has slotted and dimples on them, couple this with a set of EBC Ultimax2 pads and you'll be very impressed.
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Post by steptoe » Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:08 pm

RSR 555 wrote:Ok.. so you had enough yet?

The L.Series fronts will not fit the MY Series.
I'm still trying to digest this bit after posts from reliable sources said they did !
I got some calipers heading for the bin after salvaging the pistons for a budding hoarder :p

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Post by Silverbullet » Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:06 pm

Didn't want to put this in the "what did you do to improve your subie" thread so, digging up an old thread after the info in it has let me down! Paul! :p Well to be fair towards the end he has said they won't bolt up.

After so many posts saying the L series front calliper and mounting bracket will bolt up to the MY steering knuckle/bearing housing, when I just tried it with my new 87' turbo Vortex bits there is no way they will bolt up. Jonno had it right earlier, the bolt center distance for the 2 x 17mm calliper bolts is different. With the MY being closer together. Also thought about using the MY anchor bracket with L series calliper but that is impossible, design is too different.

Only way I can see to get these Vortex discs and callipers on my wagon is to use the Vortex bearing housing with L series control arms. Which I don't know if I can be bothered doing since I've already got new bearings and bushes installed in the MY housings. Plus it will make the front wheel track wider than the rear, not sure if this is a good idea or a good look. Because I needed to put these Vortex hubs on (to suit the disc rear, hubs have been changed to 4x114.3) I have bolted the Vortex front hub to the MY disc, that works nicely. Looks like my only option for a MY front brake upgrade is to use the biggest vented discs that were an option for later models.

Backing plates, the 2 bolt spacing is different, won't bolt up to MY wheel bearing housing
Image
Calliper anchor bracket(?) MY in foreground, Vortex behind. Too different to be interchanged
Image
Vortex front hub bolted to crusty old MY solid front disc...it works and the wheels go on now but I plan on using vented discs later
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steptoe
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Post by steptoe » Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:36 pm

Vented discs use a different pad, maybe different caliper too. Think TOONGA started this L stuff fits ....

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better get Paul to delete this text of his then!

Post by steptoe » Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:46 pm

at least one charater added ..
RSR 555 wrote:I can confirm that I have made the L.Series RX Turbo brake upgrade to many MY Series model cars over the years. The most recent one completed is Maple the beige coloured Brumby that was owned by Jay Jay. I shall refer this post to Maple as she had the complete RX Turbo conversion. There is no modification to any of the parts and there is no change to the alignment of the wheels as we are not touching the steering, nor the bearing hubs.

Parts required are...

Front end:
2x Front brake rotors (complete with drive hubs) and LH & RH Front brake calipers (complete with mounting brackets).

Rear end:
2x Rear brake rotors (complete with drive hubs), LH & RH Rear brake calipers (complete with mounting brackets), LH & RH Backing plates (including bolts & nuts) and LH & RH Brake flexible brake lines.


The fronts are a straight swap, just a case of removing the complete brake caliper (which includes the caliper mounting bracket) and remove the rotor, then fit the RX Turbo rotor and fit the RX Turbo caliper. The rears are little more interesting. You need to remove the drum and all the brake shoes, then remove the backing plate (at this point you can throw all these MY parts in the bin), then you'll need to fit the RX Turbo rear backing plates, then the rotors and calipers, then change out the brake lines and once all fitted up, you'll need to give the system a good bleed. I find a good time to replace your fluid.

I could go in to a lot more details/procedure about the swap but it's really a straight forward swap that you'll be able to work it out just by looking at the parts.

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Post by Wooster » Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:17 am

And as you guru's said, the change over to rear disc brakes on the brumby is a major improvment . Agreed 100 & 11 percent

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Post by Phizinza » Wed Jun 17, 2015 7:04 pm

Henpecked pointed me in the direction of this thread. It seems I "star" in it a fair bit thanks to Steptoe.

I have a 87 L series caliper and caliper bracket. And as shown in the photos on page 4 in here by Silverbullet, the bracket bolt spacing is different. I see a lot of confusion in here saying first that you use the L series bracket on to the MY knuckle and then saying you use the MY bracket on the L series caliper. Neither of these methods work for, at least for the non-turbo ones. We really need someone to confirm whether or not the RX does indeed use the same spacing as the MY and not the L (which would be super weird).

The pistons look identical in size, so no gain there.

I have photos, but no point posting them as Silverbullet's photos show it already.

My findings on the rotor sizes is the 242mm L series rotor is mislabeled as fitting Brumby's, they don't.
The 230mm is the vented Brumby rotor, it uses the same calipers as the solid except the caliber bracket is slightly different (bolt spacings the same, just made to fit the wider rotor).
The 229mm rotor is the Brumby/Leone solid rotor.

Sorry for bringing this back up from the dead..

And has anyone else noticed RSR555 has said you can fit L series front brakes to MY knuckles on page 2, and now on page 4 he is saying you can't??
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steptoe
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Post by steptoe » Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:46 am

Phizinza wrote:Henpecked pointed me in the direction of this thread. It seems I "star" in it a fair bit thanks to Steptoe.

I have a 87 L series caliper and caliper bracket. And as shown in the photos on page 4 in here by Silverbullet, the bracket bolt spacing is different. I see a lot of confusion in here saying first that you use the L series bracket on to the MY knuckle and then saying you use the MY bracket on the L series caliper. Neither of these methods work for, at least for the non-turbo ones. We really need someone to confirm whether or not the RX does indeed use the same spacing as the MY and not the L (which would be super weird).

The pistons look identical in size, so no gain there.

I have photos, but no point posting them as Silverbullet's photos show it already.

My findings on the rotor sizes is the 242mm L series rotor is mislabeled as fitting Brumby's, they don't.
The 230mm is the vented Brumby rotor, it uses the same calipers as the solid except the caliber bracket is slightly different (bolt spacings the same, just made to fit the wider rotor).
The 229mm rotor is the Brumby/Leone solid rotor.

Sorry for bringing this back up from the dead..

And has anyone else noticed RSR555 has said you can fit L series front brakes to MY knuckles on page 2, and now on page 4 he is saying you can't??
Yes, that is where confusion and/or suspicion set in some years ago. Put it all down to Paul being tired (can see our US readers getting images of Paul being run over just about now :p) and typing wrong thing through and not correcting it by time he is daisy fresh on p4, not even realising what he typed before . A lurker has actually posted up a pic of L fronts on an MY with mods to be able to seal front bearings inner against CV cone and maybe a few other mods - the angle differences of the components made no problem for his MY wagon. I think he and his father are master tinkerers and no idea how they got away with it. There are no part numbers for any front brake componets different from RX to others in the L stuff ! My L turbo auto has normal L front brakes. Even the bolts and slider pins differ beween MY and L.

We need a bored person with parts and time to try fit and then demonstrat the wicked angles resulting.....

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Post by steptoe » Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:59 am

RSR 555 wrote:I can confirm that I have made the L.Series RX Turbo brake upgrade to many MY Series model cars over the years. The most recent one completed is Maple the beige coloured Brumby that was owned by Jay Jay. I shall refer this post to Maple as she had the complete RX Turbo conversion. There is no modification to any of the parts and there is no change to the alignment of the wheels as we are not touching the steering, nor the bearing hubs.

Parts required are...

Front end:
2x Front brake rotors (complete with drive hubs) and LH & RH Front brake calipers (complete with mounting brackets).

Rear end:
2x Rear brake rotors (complete with drive hubs), LH & RH Rear brake calipers (complete with mounting brackets), LH & RH Backing plates (including bolts & nuts) and LH & RH Brake flexible brake lines.


The fronts are a straight swap, just a case of removing the complete brake caliper (which includes the caliper mounting bracket) and remove the rotor, then fit the RX Turbo rotor and fit the RX Turbo caliper. The rears are little more interesting. You need to remove the drum and all the brake shoes, then remove the backing plate (at this point you can throw all these MY parts in the bin), then you'll need to fit the RX Turbo rear backing plates, then the rotors and calipers, then change out the brake lines and once all fitted up, you'll need to give the system a good bleed. I find a good time to replace your fluid.

I could go in to a lot more details/procedure about the swap but it's really a straight forward swap that you'll be able to work it out just by looking at the parts.
Can we see a photo of Maples front end please ?

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Post by henpecked » Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:43 pm

Phizinza wrote:Henpecked pointed me in the direction of this thread. It seems I "star" in it a fair bit thanks to Steptoe.


My findings on the rotor sizes is the 242mm L series rotor is mislabeled as fitting Brumby's, they don't.
The 230mm is the vented Brumby rotor, it uses the same calipers as the solid except the caliber bracket is slightly different (bolt spacings the same, just made to fit the wider rotor).
The 229mm rotor is the Brumby/Leone solid rotor.

Sorry for bringing this back up from the dead..
MY Research on MY front rotors

confirming that the 242mm L series rotor is often mislabeled in Ebay as fitting Brumby's. I ordered from DBA through ebay and they rang me on my mobile to make sure I was ordering the correct part !!! I was asked the make year and model I was wanting to fit it on, I simply said that it was definitely the vented rotors I was replacing on a '89 Brumby and they were very happy top sent me the DBA640 pair.


2 x solid and 1 vented Rotors in MYs

Protex catalogue has
solid as DR342 for "Brumby A - 69" 78-89,
solid as DR340 "Leone 1600 & 1800 4WD" 80-84

vented as
"brumby AU" 85-93 AND "Leone 1600,1800" 84-85


solids

"thick" solid
DBA part DBA342 229mm
Protex DR342 229mm
thickness is 12.5mm, min thickness 10mm,

"thin" solid
Protex DR340 229mm
thickness is 10mm, min thickness 8.5,


vented
DBA part DBA640 230mm
Protex part DR640 230mm
Thickness is 18mm, min thickness 15.5

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Post by mattw » Wed Jul 08, 2015 7:17 pm

Reckon I am about 10 years behind the times on all this, but I'm now looking to do the rear disc conversion on my Brumby. I have everything I need except the most important item, the hubs....... 'good luck finding them' I hear you all saying!

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E - Brake ...

Post by Bantum » Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:17 am

Jes Zek has done some great write ups on the conversion here :

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/top ... rake-swap/

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/top ... -solution/

Cheers, Bantum ...

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Fitting kit ...

Post by Bantum » Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:59 am

Also came across these :

Image

From here : http://www.subaru4you.co.uk/brakes/brak ... gkit.shtml

Don't know if they would work or not, but may be a possible alternate solution in to making late model calliper's fit EA stuff ? ... :)

Cheers, Bantum ...

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Upgrades ...

Post by Bantum » Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:51 am

Was also looking at these as a possible upgrade :

Image , Image , Image

Found here : http://www.xcceleration.com/itemdetails.cfm85.htm

You would need 17" wheels to clear the calliper /rotor & could possibly get the 'hat' to bolt up to back of L series hub + use the fitting kit above for the Caliper - dunno if it would work though.

Thoughts ?

Cheers, Bantum ...

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