ea81 timing without flywheel

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steptoe
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Post by steptoe » Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:35 am

maybe this will help
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it is from a manual that is split in two sections - EA81 or EA82, this section does not differentiate between the two - so until further notice, they spin same way in both hemi's!

Post #10 remains unedited at the moment :)

Hey, shall we confuse the Kid with static timing and Ketterings ignition contact points, and timing with a light bulb, coupla wires ? :evil:

sneaks outside to physically check the EA81 Brumby

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steptoe
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Post by steptoe » Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:44 am

mine goes anti clock anyway !

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Post by steptoe » Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:47 am

Sam - your brain least likely to go to mush :D

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Tweety
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Post by Tweety » Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:05 pm

Brumby kid reminds me of myself back in 1981.

Put Lotus engine into car after head rebuild. had dizzy out etc. placed dizzy in and checked leads 1342 1342,,,,yep she's cool.

Spent next 3 days starting engine up and had a bad backfire. Cops called, neighbours yelling.

Rang a mechanic mate of mine. Described symptoms. His reply- "swap number 4 lead with number 1.

Ten seconds later- vrooooom!!!!

Moral of the story- good mechanical knowledge comes from - experience- listening- asking questions and being on Ausubaru forum.....but we didnt even have a computer then.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Tweety trike- EA81 (full reco 2014) 32/36 weber, SPFI manifold, 9.5:1 CR, VW auto.

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El_Freddo
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Post by El_Freddo » Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:29 pm

steptoe wrote:we are all correct - anti clockwise in southern hemisphere, clock in northern :D
We're not comparing dunnies are we???
steptoe wrote:maybe this will help
Image

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it is from a manual that is split in two sections - EA81 or EA82, this section does not differentiate between the two - so until further notice, they spin same way in both hemi's!

Post #10 remains unedited at the moment :)

Hey, shall we confuse the Kid with static timing and Ketterings ignition contact points, and timing with a light bulb, coupla wires ? :evil:

sneaks outside to physically check the EA81 Brumby
I'm sure it runs clockwise, and since my post in #10 about the cam etc, I realised that it's run off the crank - but this can still make it run either way depending on the direction of the cam gearing on the crank. But I'm still sure it runs clockwise without having checked it. Same goes for the EA82.

I think I too will have to have a look tomorrow if a) the brumby hasn't been swept away with all this rain or b) it's no longer raining as heavily as it is now :D

Cheers

Bennie
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tony
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Post by tony » Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:38 am

if you have electronic ignition do not use the old fashioned timing light that you remove the plug lead plug the timing lead on and plug the plug lead piggy back on that, the electronics can be damaged. use a timing light which has a sort of slider that you pull back and slip over the lead.
hope that made sense...most modern timing lights are the induction type

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El_Freddo
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Post by El_Freddo » Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:32 am

Ok - according to the haynes manual - the dizzy turns anti clockwise.

Now I should go out and confirm it in "real life" :D

Cheers

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Post by Silverbullet » Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:21 pm

El_Freddo wrote: Now I should go out and confirm it in "real life" :D
Please do! :o
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littlewhiteute
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Post by littlewhiteute » Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:35 pm

Anti- clockwise.

No need to look at anything else except which side the vacuum advance diaphragm is on.

If you had a dizzy in your hand, you can work out which way it rotates.

The way the crank and distributor gears are cut determines dizzy rotation, nothing to do with having a geardrive for the cam either.
Regards

Gary ;)

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Post by El_Freddo » Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:41 pm

littlewhiteute wrote:The way the crank and distributor gears are cut determines dizzy rotation, nothing to do with having a geardrive for the cam either.
Yeah I worked that out after really thinking about it when I couldn't sleep... But thought to keep the progress of this discussion true that I should leave it as is and update in another post to keep the flow going ;)

Thanks for backing up the real answer with some insight to how it all works out!

Cheers

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steptoe
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Post by steptoe » Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:20 pm

I forgot to add that I popped the bonnet (on one of them) and spied Jonnos coloured tagging system on the cap end of the leads - yup turns backwards :D

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Silverbullet
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Post by Silverbullet » Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:33 pm

So, who was right again? was it me? :mrgreen:

Only joking, just glad my brain isn't mush just yet :)
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Post by Bungers » Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:44 am

Tweety wrote:I'll try and others can improve on it Brumby Kid.

Yes the flywheel spins with the engine running.

Buy a timing light, one with 12 volt leads. connect the leads to the battery terminals and the third odd shaped connector to the number one spark plug lead front left hand plug as you look at the engine form the grill area.

Get a socket to fit the front centre bolt inside the crank pully. turn the motor over by hand until the timing marks show up in that small square window at the rear of the engine. Now as silverbullet said there will be a zero....that is top dead centre. This also means the piston in number one cylinder is at the very top of its position. Dont forget to take off that socket.

You will also see marks on the flywheel. Where there is a -8 mark the small groove with some white out or white paint. if it smudges wipe off the excess so the paint only shows in the small narrow slot. Disconnect the vacuum tube running from the distributer and plug it with a small screw so it doesnt leak (this garantees no vacuum advance while tuning). Start engine.

Squeeze the timing light and it will flash. Aim it at the square hole. If the white mark doesnt meet up with the pointer then you need adjustment. eg -8 should line up with the pointer. Unscrew the small 10mm bolt on the distributer adjustment and turn it either way until the 8 degree mark meets with the pointer.

Tighten up the adjuster, reconnect the vacuum.

The alternative is to use the timing light on the front pully. Find the notch in the pulley and mark it. Adjust the dizzy till the mark is exactly lined up on the two block halves when the timing light is flashing. That's 8 degrees- is what we found out today.

Tuning an engine is done almost blindfolded by some after many years. I suggest you buy a tuning book and engine manual. There is a priority when doing it. Spark plug adjust gap or replace and adjust gap, tappets, points, timing, air mixture, idle speed, secondary throat adjustment etc...doing it out of sink will cause problems. eg adjusting air/fuel mixture first is a no no. wasting your time because all the other adjustments will upset that adjustment. If you are servicing the engine as well then you do that first. Reason is that when the oil is new and nice and slippery the engine idle will increase, a clean air filter can cause the same.

After 20 years or so you will listen to your engine. You will know how to adjust it to get it running the best.

Some improvements like iridium spark plugs (change every 60-100,000kms) not needing adjustment and electronic ignition (never needing point adjustment) can cut tuning time and labour a lot. If you can afford these things then I recommend it.

I've learned all this the hard way. An easy method of avoiding heartache and time wasting as well as expence is asking others for advice. Just like you are doing here. It will pay off and others here like to help out.

Good luck
Got a couple of questions as i still havent started my car since remove/replace the distributer.

where is that small square at the rear of the engine? In the pic attached i can clearly see the marks on the flywheel, but the above mentioned i cant even see. Some people are saying its covered by some rubber?

Also, have i put the leads back on the dizzy in the right order? Some dizzys come with numbers on them, what would the numbers be on mine?

And the Rotor in the dizzy should be facing spark plug 1, which side of the rotor is it. Is it like in my attached pic?

Appreciate the help boys as both my 88 brumbys are not starting as i pulled both dizzys.
Attachments
Dizzy open.jpg
Dizzy open.jpg (58.96 KiB) Viewed 6496 times
dizzy cap n leads.jpg
dizzy cap n leads.jpg (106.43 KiB) Viewed 6496 times
engine bay.jpg
engine bay.jpg (114.95 KiB) Viewed 6495 times

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Tweety
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Post by Tweety » Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:59 am

I'm no mechanic...just a guru for tinkering.

There are some things Bungers that you will need to learn the hard way. Like taking a few minutes to label items like plug leads. Saves you a lot of heartache. I never take more than one lead off at a time.

I've never seen numbers on a dizzy.

Get a manual. Read up in boks about the basics of the internal combustion engine. You need a mentor that can spend say an hour physically with you to answer your questions. It would be hard otherwise.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Tweety trike- EA81 (full reco 2014) 32/36 weber, SPFI manifold, 9.5:1 CR, VW auto.

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steptoe
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Post by steptoe » Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:22 am

Bungers, the square you refer to is the hole you must be looking through to be able to see the timing marks on the flywheel - the hole left the factory with a black rubber bung plug, no pun !!

Search in here can be good, can be tricky, but YOU need to get #1 cylinder number is in the block casting, on TDC 0 for the compression stroke top. For this, easy with all spark plugs out, shove rubber hose into number one for tight fit - you choose hose. I then have cut off a finger of a rubber glove and sealed to top of hose prior to getting to #1 TDC and watch finger inflate as turn engine clockwise? I think - the compression stroke air fills finger.

THEN , I think you shift fly a smidge to 8 DBTDC mark, align dizzy drive cog dot mark with cut mark of alloy dizzy housing , than drop dizzy in with vac advance unit in good spot.

SEE how you go.

Also, use the Steptoe ID method with those coloured zip cable ties and always mark both ends of lead#1 with red, #2 with blue, #3 green #4 yellow , you'll see my pattern of more letters in the colour name as the cylinder number increases firing order 1324 I think

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Post by Silverbullet » Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:29 pm

Digging up an old old thread just for the hell of it :rolleyes:

Just to let Tweety know, the key way on the crank of my EA81S points at 3 O'clock when #1 cylinder is at TDC, does not line up with the line in the crank case halves at 12 O'clock ;)
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Post by Tweety » Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:28 am

Gidday SB
I havent been active for some time. The result of getting my recoed ea81 running reliably and economically.

Bennie was here one day with Sunny (Brumby ea81) and we compared his timing and the location of the crank key and it was how I described it. So unless your "S" engine is different I'm at a loss.

This new engine (well 10 months old now lol) runs at 10 degrees BTDC. If the crank key was 90 degrees out at 3 o'clock then it would be running at 102 degrees BTDC. Furthermore the engine runs sweet and delivers 26-30 mpg. No hiccups, no idles issues at all. No choke so needs....turn key wait for fuel to fill carbie, pump throttle 3 times then start. Starter goes only 1-2 seconds and its away.

So don't think its out of timing at all. Further investigation needed eh.
Tony
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Tweety trike- EA81 (full reco 2014) 32/36 weber, SPFI manifold, 9.5:1 CR, VW auto.

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Post by Nubaru » Thu Jan 14, 2016 6:55 am

reading back on it Bungers never came back .....to say or thank
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Tweety
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Post by Tweety » Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:39 am

yes, bungers didn't reply.

The way of the world nowadays I suppose, not that it is acceptable. People go to a lot of effort to reply/respond and then nothing???

I get emails from this site if there is a reply, then reply quickly. This is good as I'm not near as active here as I used to be. Building my own caravan ATM and little spare time even though I'm retired. Cheers.

Caravan weighs tare only 330kgms. Trike can tow it.

Tony

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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Tweety trike- EA81 (full reco 2014) 32/36 weber, SPFI manifold, 9.5:1 CR, VW auto.

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Post by Silverbullet » Thu Jan 14, 2016 5:47 pm

Tweety wrote:Gidday SB
I havent been active for some time. The result of getting my recoed ea81 running reliably and economically.

Bennie was here one day with Sunny (Brumby ea81) and we compared his timing and the location of the crank key and it was how I described it. So unless your "S" engine is different I'm at a loss.

This new engine (well 10 months old now lol) runs at 10 degrees BTDC. If the crank key was 90 degrees out at 3 o'clock then it would be running at 102 degrees BTDC. Furthermore the engine runs sweet and delivers 26-30 mpg. No hiccups, no idles issues at all. No choke so needs....turn key wait for fuel to fill carbie, pump throttle 3 times then start. Starter goes only 1-2 seconds and its away.

So don't think its out of timing at all. Further investigation needed eh.
Tony
Don't sweat it, I don't even need timing marks where I'm going with my ignition :twisted:

Good to hear your trike is finally working well for you! Time to get out there and use it on the open road, I like the mini caravan :cool:
Will it ever end!?
-EA81 TWIN CARB!!!!
-L series 5 speed
-Custom paint job
-2" lift
-Full custom re-wire
-L series front end
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