Draw through turbocharger setup questions
- TOONGA
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Draw through turbocharger setup questions
I am considering a draw through turbocharger set-up for PJ the brumby, remembering that PJ is an EJ22 with a carby and distributor setup.
snide remarks and suggestions of a computer set-up aren't wanted please
I have searched the board intensively and found one archived thread that was not that helpful.
my first questions
Is a rebuild with a carbon seal on the compressor side really necessary?
I have a TD04 I'm considering using (free) is this too big or will it be big enough?
TOONGA
snide remarks and suggestions of a computer set-up aren't wanted please
I have searched the board intensively and found one archived thread that was not that helpful.
my first questions
Is a rebuild with a carbon seal on the compressor side really necessary?
I have a TD04 I'm considering using (free) is this too big or will it be big enough?
TOONGA
- steptoe
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Sounds like you've hit same stuff i found while researching, threw me right off the whole idea until I found my set up being LPG was retaining throttle body on manifold with gas carby between air filter and turbo.
I think if you can retain a throttle body on the manifold or go a standard manifold with standard efi throttle body and run a carby without throttle plates in similar sequence like air filter >> carby > turbo > standard throttle body on inlet manifold you'll bypass the concern you found
I think if you can retain a throttle body on the manifold or go a standard manifold with standard efi throttle body and run a carby without throttle plates in similar sequence like air filter >> carby > turbo > standard throttle body on inlet manifold you'll bypass the concern you found
- Brumby Kid
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EJ22 carby?
Never heard of them existing.
What carby do you have on it?
I do like carby engines, if I was to do an EJ conversion...
Wate, no you've just rebuilt your EA Cameron
You haven't even put it in the car let alone killed it yet.
Cheers Cam
Never heard of them existing.
What carby do you have on it?
I do like carby engines, if I was to do an EJ conversion...
Wate, no you've just rebuilt your EA Cameron
You haven't even put it in the car let alone killed it yet.
Cheers Cam
When life gives you a corner, drop a gear, pitch, and stomp the loud pedal
Bianca: 1991 Subaru Brumby
My First / Project car
EA81 Rebuilt by Tony Knight from knight Engines
2" body lift
25" 185r14 Yokahama Delivery Star, light truck tyres
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Bianca: 1991 Subaru Brumby
My First / Project car
EA81 Rebuilt by Tony Knight from knight Engines
2" body lift
25" 185r14 Yokahama Delivery Star, light truck tyres
2" Sports exhaust
Rear Aguip step/bar
Liberty seats
"Bianca"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Dads Car: 02 Impreza WRX STi[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Mums Car 08 Liberty Wagon
- TOONGA
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Jonno the air filter and gas mixer before the turbo and the throttle body after the turbo is a great idea if I had gas:)steptoe wrote:Sounds like you've hit same stuff i found while researching, threw me right off the whole idea until I found my set up being LPG was retaining throttle body on manifold with gas carby between air filter and turbo.
I think if you can retain a throttle body on the manifold or go a standard manifold with standard efi throttle body and run a carby without throttle plates in similar sequence like air filter >> carby > turbo > standard throttle body on inlet manifold you'll bypass the concern you found
as for the second idea ... (ummmm) I would be better off going SPFI before the turbo and a throttle body after the turbo which could cost less than a gas set up but would still mean spending more money than I have.
Cam the EJ18 was shipped to a few countries with either single point fuel injection or a carby very similar to the EA82 carby.Brumby Kid wrote:EJ22 carby?
Never heard of them existing.
What carby do you have on it?
I do like carby engines, if I was to do an EJ conversion...
Wate, no you've just rebuilt your EA Cameron
You haven't even put it in the car let alone killed it yet.
Cheers Cam
My engine runs a lucas MK3 escort dizzy and coil, with a madly modified manifold and a weber 34ADM. (I did have a weber 32/36 but who needs economy)
My whole reasoning is that I have a Zenith 175 CD carburettor, a subaru TD04L and nearly all the bits to get this to happen cheaply.
I will need to track down or make the up pipe and dump pipe, a blow off valve (maybe) and a boost controller, some oil fittings and re plumb the PCV gases .
Still a pipe dream but it could happen
TOONGA
- Gannon
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Carburettored turbos were never much good, even factory versions (of other brands obviously) The transition from vac to boost always caused issues.
If you want to stay with the carby, why not whack a supercharger on it?
If you want to stay with the carby, why not whack a supercharger on it?
Current rides: 2016 Mitsubishi Triton GLS & 2004 Forester X
Ongoing Project/Toy: 1987 RX Turbo EA82T, Speeduino ECU, Coil-pack ignition, 440cc Injectors, KONI adjustale front struts, Hybrid L Series/ Liberty AWD 5sp
Past rides: 92 L series turbo converted wagon, 83 Leone GL Sedan, 2004 Liberty GT Sedan & 2001 Outback
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Ongoing Project/Toy: 1987 RX Turbo EA82T, Speeduino ECU, Coil-pack ignition, 440cc Injectors, KONI adjustale front struts, Hybrid L Series/ Liberty AWD 5sp
Past rides: 92 L series turbo converted wagon, 83 Leone GL Sedan, 2004 Liberty GT Sedan & 2001 Outback
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- TOONGA
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Yeah thats another issue I've read into, as for the supercharger ... you don't have a spare one in working condition that you would care to donate?Gannon wrote:Carburettored turbos were never much good, even factory versions (of other brands obviously) The transition from vac to boost always caused issues.
If you want to stay with the carby, why not whack a supercharger on it?
TOONGA
- steptoe
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Your question. I know you don't have LPG, which is why I suggested air filter. carby with no throttle until after the turbo because it is throttle before turbo that makes need for the carbon seal for longevity according to some sources. I was envisioning a side draught of non slide throttle type that could be debutterflied and usedstandard TB of efi manifold. Wonder if carby would work without its butterflies ?? Might be an absolute pig - but something to see if been done .....TOONGA wrote:
Is a rebuild with a carbon seal on the compressor side really necessary?
TOONGA
- TOONGA
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That sounds wild enough to work, but as you say would it...steptoe wrote:Your question. I know you don't have LPG, which is why I suggested air filter. carby with no throttle until after the turbo because it is throttle before turbo that makes need for the carbon seal for longevity according to some sources. I was envisioning a side draught of non slide throttle type that could be debutterflied and usedstandard TB of efi manifold. Wonder if carby would work without its butterflies ?? Might be an absolute pig - but something to see if been done .....
I know the 34adm has a seperate plate for the butterflies ... can you picture the body of the carby on one side of the turbo and the butterflies on the other side... with my set up it could be possible to test it ... something to think about.
TOONGA
- TOONGA
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one of these would be a great option
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/JDM-Aisin-AM ... 3a777da80e
anyone care to sponsor me
TOONGA
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/JDM-Aisin-AM ... 3a777da80e
anyone care to sponsor me
TOONGA
- El_Freddo
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My mate knows *just a little* bit about turbos (and he's currently watching TV with me while I pick his brain).
Yes you have to have a carbon oil seal on the intake side otherwise you'll suck your sump dry when off boost.
This setup works very good on 186's and other old school things, but they're still temperamental.
They always have problems as they're a compromise and you can't run an intercooler. You have to have very small inlet runners so that fuel droplets don't form when off boost such as at cruise.
Garret kits on 186's and 202's work really well but are still temperamental beasts.
If you do it, just be aware of the limitations. They're always going to be a compromise until you go with the tried and tested EFI setup.
Research the garrett kits for further info on this setup. It can be done and my mate says he's always one to sit on the fence by presenting both sides of the story, he's the same on this one even if I didn't express this above. It can be done though, just that it's got those limitation issues...
Cheers
Bennie
Yes you have to have a carbon oil seal on the intake side otherwise you'll suck your sump dry when off boost.
This setup works very good on 186's and other old school things, but they're still temperamental.
They always have problems as they're a compromise and you can't run an intercooler. You have to have very small inlet runners so that fuel droplets don't form when off boost such as at cruise.
Garret kits on 186's and 202's work really well but are still temperamental beasts.
If you do it, just be aware of the limitations. They're always going to be a compromise until you go with the tried and tested EFI setup.
Research the garrett kits for further info on this setup. It can be done and my mate says he's always one to sit on the fence by presenting both sides of the story, he's the same on this one even if I didn't express this above. It can be done though, just that it's got those limitation issues...
Cheers
Bennie
- TOONGA
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The teflon is on the surfaces of the rotors in the supercharger, it will be worn off eventually by anything that goes through the supercharger. The roots design superchargers have always had a coating of some sort on them and it always wears off.
Jonno would love to go gas and Im gearing up to look into it I just have to find a long lost mate of mine and see if he still has his automotive gas ticket (what ever thats called)
Gas isn't dry either, it is extremely cold vapour that has condensed in the mixer.
TOONGA
Jonno would love to go gas and Im gearing up to look into it I just have to find a long lost mate of mine and see if he still has his automotive gas ticket (what ever thats called)
Gas isn't dry either, it is extremely cold vapour that has condensed in the mixer.
TOONGA
- steptoe
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Bennie - your mate, wouldn't be a bit older would he - like dad or grandpa ? Talking of turbo 186 and 202 is taking me back 20, scratch that, 30 years !! Think the SU was the choice except for one dad, a genius - designed and built his own fuel injection system for a Chrysler engine, underbonnt supercharger in a what was it ???? A Cresta I think ??
No, think it was a Rover, the Cresta got the 202 traumatic combo
No, think it was a Rover, the Cresta got the 202 traumatic combo
- El_Freddo
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Nah mate, he's probably a couple of years older at the most. Just that he's into the whole turbo scene - got a datsun 1600 coupe that's done up to the hill for track racing - it's a crazy machine! His dad's a fair bit older though and I'm sure he's had a huge influence on his son since he works in the racing industry - builds exhausts among other things...steptoe wrote:Bennie - your mate, wouldn't be a bit older would he - like dad or grandpa ? Talking of turbo 186 and 202 is taking me back 20, scratch that, 30 years !! Think the SU was the choice except for one dad, a genius - designed and built his own fuel injection system for a Chrysler engine, underbonnt supercharger in a what was it ???? A Cresta I think ??
I'd say it's a setup like that but back in the day it was built by Garrett rather than an eaton SC. But really I've got no idea what it looks like (the garrett kit) but I'm sure it would be something like what's in that link.TOONGA wrote:an old holden like this?
Cheers
Bennie
- Gannon
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That doesnt seem to add up to me. The 500 means it pumps 500cc's of air per revolution, and it is usually suited to engines up to 1000cc in displacement. To make it work on a 2.2L engine, you will have to make it turn at tripple its rated speed, which means it will heat the air more, which means either a big intercooler or less ignition timing and powerTOONGA wrote:this is an AMR 500 supercharger it isnt much bigger that an alternator
it will be good for 4-5 psi of boost
Current rides: 2016 Mitsubishi Triton GLS & 2004 Forester X
Ongoing Project/Toy: 1987 RX Turbo EA82T, Speeduino ECU, Coil-pack ignition, 440cc Injectors, KONI adjustale front struts, Hybrid L Series/ Liberty AWD 5sp
Past rides: 92 L series turbo converted wagon, 83 Leone GL Sedan, 2004 Liberty GT Sedan & 2001 Outback
------------------------------------------
Ongoing Project/Toy: 1987 RX Turbo EA82T, Speeduino ECU, Coil-pack ignition, 440cc Injectors, KONI adjustale front struts, Hybrid L Series/ Liberty AWD 5sp
Past rides: 92 L series turbo converted wagon, 83 Leone GL Sedan, 2004 Liberty GT Sedan & 2001 Outback
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- TOONGA
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Thats correct Gannon it will have to run 2.1:1 on a 2.2 litre engine to give 4-5 psi.
I'm game... as for timing I will have to retard that anyway, and an intercooler with a carby hmm... I'm not sure I want to risk that. a backfire could be the end of PJ.
I may even shelve it and find a fiori, a sherpa or even a ford fiesta to torture.
TOONGA
I'm game... as for timing I will have to retard that anyway, and an intercooler with a carby hmm... I'm not sure I want to risk that. a backfire could be the end of PJ.
I may even shelve it and find a fiori, a sherpa or even a ford fiesta to torture.
TOONGA