EA82T..cat converter

subybrumby · Post by **subybrumby** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:49 am

Hi everyone. Just thinking out aloud here and putting to pen my thoughts. Its one in the morning.

I had my EA82T brumby all loaded to go on a trip out west Queensland for a week and have been looking forward to this for a long time. I've done numerous trips all around south east Qld with no trouble so was quite confident for the car to do the big one. I'm on leave at the moment and was heading from Toowoomba with the plan to travel west to Charleville then out to Windorah and play guitar at the pub there (all arranged). Then up through the middle to Longreach and stay with the brother in law and then pickup the eldest boy and travel back down through the guts to Toowoomba.

Packing to go.
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Anyway left early Wednesday morning and the car was going great, but the road from Toowoomba heading out to Roma is shot to putty from all the heavy traffic and trucks associated with the mining boom. It was potholes and rough shitty bitumen all the way. Just as I was coming into Miles I hit a beauty and from there the car started to falter, It came back to 80k/p/hr and if I tried to accelerate, the engine would miss and I couldn't get power. About 25ks on the western side of Miles, there was a loud backfire and I saw all this hot flaming stuff go out on the road behind me. I thought I had lost a wheel off the trailer and that the stub axle had hit the road. So I stopped to check. When I stopped, the engine cut off and I had no electrics whatsoever. Bullshit, here I was in the dark, in the middle of the road, no lights, nothing and a truck about a mile back coming towards me. So I quickly pushed it down into the table drain and that's where I stayed for the next six hours.

Anyway, what I do know now is that the burning stuff all over the road was the guts out of the Cat converter. The car has suffered a major elecrical fault although it may be a simple as a break somewhere. The horn works, the clock in the dash works. No ignition, headlights nil, got tailights but no accessories.

Luckily I had phone coverage and after a lot of stuffin around, the Mrs came out in my other brumby from Toowoomba. We hooked the trailer to it, loaded all the stuff from the back to it also and after towing my turbo brumby to a farmhouse, made the trip back. Not after I froze my arse off in the early hours in the darkness trying to sort the problem. My son and I will be going back Sunday with a car trailer to get the car back.

I'm really disappointed and sh-tty about it but never again...its the first time I've been stuck on the side of the road with a car but hopefully never again. And to make matters worse, It was my wife's day off. She said, "I thought I had just got rid of you and now here I am in your other other brumby coming to the rescue.."

Ahhh nothing like the site of that little brumby coming down the highway though..

Anyway..thought I would share...will get it back and roll it into the shed and look for the problem although electronics is not my strong point...Oh and I'm off to join RACQ...

The idea was good...
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steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:32 am

Fusible link ? Trev ??

Fusible link still in place after EA82T conversion - sort of tucked under the drivers side wire loom from battery.
When the link went in my Brumby it was 23 years old and was just a no start - until I walked home in absolute disgust in the real cold , made a little hot wire from battery directly to pos side of coil and a near gut busting push. When the FL went in my my GLTA with EA82T it was above the speed limit a little and occured just as I applied brakes. Due to the auto 4WD function module still connected after my manual conversion the wipers ran at same time as brakee lights. All circuits in use, hazards, interior lights blew out something shocking, spat filaments so hot to melt inside bulbs. Amazingly the ECU was fine

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:42 am

How secure is the battery - silly question ? Or did the pos terminal hit the bonnet with the bumps ? Seen a battery slide forward under rego brake meter test, earth out and burnt a hole in the bonnet

subybrumby · Post by **subybrumby** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:52 am

Thanks mate..yes, I was on the phone to my son who was out west waiting for me..His mates came back with the fusible link issue...I did find one in the system. Comes outside the harnes and looks cloth covered then goes back into the harness about 2inches along. It looks ok. Battery is secure and is on the left side. Removed the positive terminal when we left it on a farm as a matter of precaution and when undoing terminal, connected couple of times on chassis, still plenty of spark, but horn indicated that anyway.

There is obviously power at the fuse box near drivers right knee as some applications work but not ignition. Checked all fuses..looked ok. Gonna take a bypass wire out with me and go straight from batter to ignition fuse and see if ignition comes alive even if only to get it on the trailer. My son (Julian) thinks wire has come off somewhere or maybe a relay worked loose. Couldn't see anything obvious and very limited to what I had with me at the time. No tilt trays in Miles, pretty well stranded. Tilt tray from Toowoomba (if things were quiet they said) was $600 but managed to get all day car trailer here for $105. Going back Sunday with Julian who flies in from his job to Toowoomba today.

Really disappointed about the trip though...

Julian says best bet is to get multimeter and test light and work our way back from battery to see where the fault is.

Catalytic converter though is obviously stuffed with bit of burning honey comb all over the road. It looked like someone had got a shovelful of hot embers and thrown them across the roadway. Never seen anything like that before and it was only a couple of years old...put it on when I bought the car because it had an exhaust leak and they changed the converter at the time.

OKsubaru · Post by **OKsubaru** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:03 am

What came first, did you say backfire ? As backfire can root a cat I believe, no matter how old it is. I was wondering how the molten cat got past your muffler baffles - guessing it is a straight through rumbler

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:12 am

Yeah, good read here...

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Does_backfiri ... e_to_a_car

I had the biggest ever backfire with an after market ignition points replacement that was using just one earth and that earth wire was working loose, built up an ashy surface like points can ash up and wuckin KABANG right under my bloody feet in the extractors and blew the exhaust cleaner than its ever been - a reddy brown rusty coloured cloud emitted from the tail pipe as ignition got back to work and got me home. I now do two earth connections on fuel and ignition wire ups

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:45 am

Hey Trev, I'm going to go with you son on this one and say something came loose under the dash (probably knocked when you jumped out of your skin) when the car backfired. I would also check with a test light for signs of power around your ignition barrel, it might just be coincidence as Brumbys always have trouble with their ignition switch behind the key barrel.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:34 am

I think loose came first, a nano second before the backfire - not as you suggest Paul - brave statement

eh ? A hotwire may prove ignition switch wiring jolted broke

subybrumby · Post by **subybrumby** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:14 pm

Thanks everyone for working through with me on this. Paul..you are a mindreader...I've just got off the phone with Julian who has just flown back from out west and we were just saying ignition barrel. Sometimes when I have gone to start the car, there has been a delay for the ignition to light up. (Ignition lights come on and can hear fuel pump go for 4 seconds as it states in ECU manual) I thought it has just been something quirky about the setup but sometimes when I turn the key on the ignition comes on straight away, and sometimes it doesn't and then not at all. Usually I go back to off and start again and it comes on. My standard brumby has been the same but in that case the ignition always comes on but no starter. Was worse in the cold and I just got around it by piggy backing a push button beside it. Can't believe my whole holiday has been thrown upside down over an ignition barrel...if that's the case.

Steptoe...sequences of events....left at about 1 in the morning..car was going fine..but road shitty..so went steady. Hit a fairly decent pothole just before miles..so bad it was fixed next day when we came back in the rescue brumby. After the bump, I stopped at Miles and did a walk around checking trailer etc..car sat idling. Freezing cold..back into the car and headed west. About 20k further on travelling at about 80klm/hr found I couldn't get anymore out of it. Everytime I tried to push throttle done, the engine would go into a miss like spark plug missing or fuel startvation. Knew I was in trouble. When backed off throttle, engine would recover but no power. Then tried agin and give it some stick. Nice old backfire and saw embers and sparks fly out left rear side. Thought hell, trailer wheel has come off and stub axle on the road. Stopped the car right in the middle of highway and left it idling to get out for look. The car just stopped like someone had pulled the battery lead off. Looked back up the road and about 100yards back there were burning embers over the road. Quickly pushed car off the road as truck was coming up behind me in the distance and I was dead in the middle of the carriageway with no lights. After truck went past and I started to take stock of what had happened, thought i saw wiff of smoke coming out of tailpipe. Thats basically it..went back and found some of the melted guts of the cat converter over the road. Found that I had dash clock ticking, horn working and headlights but nothing else. That's it. No ignition, no accessories. And I don't think it does have a muffler...but pretty big pipe, maybe 2 or 2half inch. Mate here says cat converter goes because car running too rich. Not too worried about the cat converter, deal with it later.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:43 am

Mmmm, that time my first FL went in the 84 Brum, I too had ignition barrel troubles or so i thought, swapped in a spare - arrr fixed, pleased with self

! then my FL let me down in minus 4 that night

Give that FL a good tug for me. I actually left my hotwire connected at the coil end with aligator clip for the battery end - for some years after

Or, wonder if cat was starting to cause grief as when they crumble inside engine can't breathe and can run like you describe (also a bit like a pump running at 10 psi can't handle boost) , though a blocked cat does not cause no ignition .....

RACQ got any negatives like not really much assistance or no real mechanics available

subybrumby · Post by **subybrumby** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:54 pm

Quick update.

Julian and I went and retrieved the car today in his Kluga towing a rented car trailer. Car was still safe and hidden, many thanks to the property owner who came out to meet us. He stated that he was the past owner of a forrester but now a subaru tribeca. I asked him what he thought of the tribeca and said it was a great car plenty of power but loves the fuel.

Ok..after a bit of fiddling we got the car going by running a bypass wire straight from battery positive to the ignition fuse in the fusebox, near driver side knee. Gave car a rev and it spat out a bit more cat converter guts. Jumped in and headed for home, still breaking down under acceleration. 25k on at Miles, stopped to let Julian catchup with Kluga and car trailer. The brumby was idling for a few minutes then dropped revs a bit and died. Could not restart because battery was now flat, so no charge going into battery I suspect.

Loaded onto car trailer and came home. Now sitting in the car port.

So ...once power was got to the fuse, car started normally with all accessories operational including the air con. Now what....

Any thoughts people....A major break in the power from battery to the ignition section of the fuse box...fusible link looks fine and checked ok with test light....

Spoke to Steptoe about this and obviously there is a problem bying a car that has been highly modified, trying to diagnose some elses rather dodgy untidy wiring but I'm stuck with it...Don't think an autoelectrician would bother looking at it...

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:05 am

I must hook up my Voltmeter - reckon it is a must in every car - especially ones out of manufacturer warranty - something we EA swearer byers need not worry about

Bloody good start in the hot wire and if the FLs are good , keep on Pauls suggestion of IGN switch ...

Swap alternators and see if you kill the other Brumby ?

Guess you have already checked battery holding volts before and after a charge ?

I still scared to try the alternator that was in my GLTA when everything went to poo but reckon it is fine, best get an auto elec just check it first for mine. You may as well do same with yours just in case the regulator has gone weird

Check to see if alternator is charging battery

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:13 am

Trevor has also forgotten to tell us he has an imobiliser ...... they are fun

especially if wired to cut ignition. A good install should really only work on fuel supply in my view.

subybrumby · Post by **subybrumby** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:03 am

Hey there Steptoe...I've been pouring over wiring diagrams this morning for both brumby and EA82MPFI and on my third cup coffee. There was no power anywhere at ignition switch when we did initial checks at breakdown site so looking back toward fusible link again.It checked out initially but thinking more so of deteriation in link somewhere affected by extreme cold and then sudden jolt. Probably remove the link and replace with new or better fuse setup that I have seen discussed elsewhere in this forum. Key worked fine once we got power to it. And yes...imobilser good I guess until you have to work amid all the wiring that comes with it.....

Re Battery...gonna put it on charge now and I'm sure all that side ok...when I broke down in the middle of the night, had all electrics running including spotties....I'm guessing that the break occurred further back down the road and when cat blew and I stopped, the car snuffed it like it did at Miles on way back from lack of voltage/power etc. If I can locate and fix the break, I think other systems will be ok...still looking..

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:36 pm

Or just sh1tty connections at the battery ?? I was forever getting them in the cold of the night until I installed spring washers to the clamp down bolts of the battery terminal POS - where all my additions seem to be powered from

subybrumby · Post by **subybrumby** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:45 pm

Well fusible link is ok...traced that main wire right around the front of the car under the radiator and comes up inside the drives side of engine bay. There it turns into a birds nest, what a mess who ever wired this thing. Once I got some of the insulation off it is just a real mess whoever did the job. Went in under the dash from the key side. About 2inches back from the key, the wires have all been cut and rejoined into something else. Colour coding here has gone out the window so nearly impossible to trace anything. I've finished with it for the moment and I am afraid to say that the time has come to have a real long hard think about this and make a decision that will be long term. If I can't find the fault, might have to rip it all out and rewire the whole thing (yippee) or go in a totally different direction. I will never have faith to travel anywhere with whats under the dash at the moment. Will not be making any rash decisions today. I'll get some photos up tomorrow to show you guys what I'm up against. I know one thing for sure....whichever way I go...a lot of the extras that have been put in the car under the dash are going to go ta ta's.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:40 pm

This is where you step back and think out loud in here.The problem with ignition may or may not be in that nest, that you never worried (or knew) about before.

Bypass the birds nest for ignition, so if the immobilser is involved - it won't be anymore. Immobilisers are great - black wire to here, black wire to there and another to earth !! I feel for WA car owners that have mandatory immobiliser ?

Start from battery, get a tidy little fused relay with the fuse built in at the front - one of those double the price fuses with a light up diode in 'em when they snuff it, and up to the ignition switch

subybrumby · Post by **subybrumby** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:07 pm

Yea....that has crossed my mind also but is still really only a temp fix. I'll have another look tomorrow and see if I can trace it further back from the key and see if I can pick up power in there. I bared the ends of a small piece of insulated wire and bridged across the fuse box from the horn fuse to the ignition fuse and the dash all came on and could here fuel pump going etc etc. I probably could run a whole new wire from battery to back of key and encase it. Would still look like part of the system I guess and set up like you mentioned. Must persevere.... more coffee

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:15 am

Yeah, better idea to go from fuse box and keep the FL protection. I think the Brumby fuse box has a few spare holes that you can add the sockets (female spade terminals)from an intensely butchered MY fuse box rear, solder things up

subybrumby · Post by **subybrumby** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Yes...not much doing today...raining here and I've got it in the car port where the light was much better when the weather was fine...so went to town and got a coupla things I might need...real good insulation tape (not sh-tty pvs plastic stuff) and had a bit of a look round super cheap and dick smith for ideas..Now I realise that there is another fusible link coming out of that harness...

Looks like this

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as apart from the other I have been suspecting which is the cloth covered copper fuse type. So stands to reason that there is power to other aspects of the car so will follow this one when the weather clears. I'm on 3weeks leave at the moment so not pushed for time on it.

But yea...if I can't get a result, I'll run another small harness (single wire) over the top to the key to buy me time till I think further up the track what I want to do. I have an EJ20G engine and harness in the shed that I will probably go with one day, but the engine needs to be rebuilt and all that goes with that type of major job...no funds either at the moment.

T.