I own a vortex :)

[TOONGA]

Oh yeah! But I think your lift is way too big!!

Cheers

Bennie

you must be having me on Bennie, it is only a 2 inch kit

I can't find the image of the BYB lifted vortex, it was metallic blue with yellow under bonnet details and ran an EJ22. Looked awesome.

Cheers

Bennie

this one?

link is to a blue vortex in a short video

downloads.php?do=file&id=20

TOONGA

[El_Freddo]

you must be having me on Bennie, it is only a 2 inch kit

No, I was talking in regards to that rally vortex pic - that particular unit wouldn't have any lift in it - hence your lift is too big

That's all I meant by that.

That could be the vortex I was thinking of, but it had different rims and a non turbo at the time... I don't like the look of those rims on it!

Cheers

Bennie

[RSR 555]

Imagine Jetcar with a set of scorpion rims and offroad tyres.. yay !!

[TOONGA]

Imagine Jetcar with a set of scorpion rims and offroad tyres.. yay !!

you shouting them as Im pretty sure that would cost more than my total outlay on jetcar so far

So the intermittent ping Ive suffered with 91 RON fuel may be solved (insert kiss of death shaken not stirred)

I have changed nearly every sensor apart from the TPS (which was next) when I found my spare igniter in my electronic parts stash.

I made up an aluminium heat sink out of 4mm ally and used silver grade heat sink paste to seat the igniter to the ally. so far Ive not had a problem... heres hoping.

TOONGA

[RSR 555]

you shouting them as Im pretty sure that would cost more than my total outlay on jetcar so far

I haven't sent you my bill yet

So the intermittent ping Ive suffered with 91 RON fuel may be solved (insert kiss of death shaken not stirred)

I have changed nearly every sensor apart from the TPS (which was next) when I found my spare igniter in my electronic parts stash.

I made up an aluminium heat sink out of 4mm ally and used silver grade heat sink paste to seat the igniter to the ally. so far Ive not had a problem... heres hoping.

Not really sure how the ignitor would reduce pinging but hey if it's working.. then all good

[TOONGA]

I haven't sent you my bill yet

Neither have I cheese cakes need eggs and for some reason there were none anywhere on the shelves down here yesterday. I had to buy a pack of free range eggs that must have been laid in a holiday house in the French Alps

Not really sure how the ignitor would reduce pinging but hey if it's working.. then all good

As I understand it the ECU sends and recieves signals to and from the igniter and the coil pack to adjust the timing.

If the igniter is/was faulty the ECU would get a bung signal from it like it would from a sensor.

TOONGA

[RSR 555]

Neither have I cheese cakes need eggs and for some reason there were none anywhere on the shelves down here yesterday. I had to buy a pack of free range eggs that must have been laid in a holiday house in the French Alps

Love how you compare my work to your WIFE'S cheesecake.. must admit, they are the best Plenty of eggs up here, the Spud Shed usually has them at a good price

As I understand it the ECU sends and recieves signals to and from the igniter and the coil pack to adjust the timing.

Nope. The ECU negatively triggers the Ignitor that inturn tells the coil to spark. The ECU does not receive any signals from Ignitor. Timing only is adjusted by the ignition map inside the ECU program.

If the igniter is/was faulty the ECU would get a bung signal from it like it would from a sensor.

Nope. If the Ignitor is faulty, then the coil would just not spark but hey, if it's working to stop the ping.. then happy days

[TOONGA]

Love how you compare my work to your WIFE'S cheesecake.. must admit, they are the best Plenty of eggs up here, the Spud Shed usually has them at a good price

Wifey and I work as a team she makes I consult (taste)

Nope. The ECU negatively triggers the Ignitor that inturn tells the coil to spark. The ECU does not receive any signals from Ignitor. Timing only is adjusted by the ignition map inside the ECU program.

How does the ECU know, apart from the knock sensor to advance or retard the timing? and how is the timing retarded or advanced at the motor?

Wouldn't the ECU need as many signals as possible to control the timing so that the knock sensor was the last resort?

Nope. If the Ignitor is faulty, then the coil would just not spark but hey, if it's working to stop the ping.. then happy days

Faulty as in working but sending the wrong signal.

TOONGA

[Subydoug]

Uses an ignition map. Timing is determined by engine rpm vs load. Ecu knows the rpm from the crank or cam sensor, load from either a map sensor or both the tps and maf sensors. Like inside a distributor, rpm would be the mechanical weights and the vac advance is the load. Make sense?

Regards

Doug

[TOONGA]

Uses an ignition map. Timing is determined by engine rpm vs load. Ecu knows the rpm from the crank or cam sensor, load from either a map sensor or both the tps and maf sensors. Like inside a distributor, rpm would be the mechanical weights and the vac advance is the load. Make sense?

Regards

Doug

Yes it does Doug but how does the computer actually send this information to the spark plugs?

I would have thought that the 6 wires that join the ignitor the coil and the ECU would have had a lot to do with the control (advance and retard) of the signal and final spark.

http://s337.photobucket.com/user/dhayde ... _diagrams/

TOONGA

[Subydoug]

Ok, thats a fair question. I assume your engine uses batch fire (2 plugs firing at once) which means it actually has two coils. The igniter is basically a relay which energizes the coils when Its time to spark. So the igniter is actually 2 igniters, one for each coil.

Back to the ecu, when it comes time to spark, the ecu is going to drive an output high or low depending on lots of different things. This output goes to the igniter which drives the coil to produce the spark. Because there are 2 coils that means the ECU has two outputs, unless its a digital output which I doubt.

If I had to guess what the wires are for it would be two outputs from the ECU, two monitoring signals back from the igniter, so the ecu can detect a misfire, and a power and ground wire.

I dont think these ecu's are smart enough to do on the fly ignition timing. It just reads the sensors, looks up what timing to use with the sensor values and sends it on its way.
Remember the knock sensor is also one of these sensors that it reads.

I hope that ramble makes some sense. I could be wrong about some of those things but thats my basic understanding on whats going on.

If the igniter module has indeed fixed your ping, my hunch would be that your getting noise into your output lines from the ECU and they are triggering early. However, with the new igniter module, with its new filter capacitors which haven't been heat cycled 1000s of times and are 20 years old, it can suppress the noise enough for it to work properly.

Regards

Doug

[El_Freddo]

That's interesting about the ignitor Toonga - It could be the reason why my car died on the sand in high temps while meandering through the sand not working particularly hard. I've recently relocated my ignitor so will look into this. I also didn't know they needed a heat sink - Mine's been cable tied to the spare wheel mount and is now cable tied to a bracket near the brake booster...

Interesting though!

Cheers

Bennie

[TOONGA]

Yes Doug it makes sense.

I have read up on a lot of this, but the ignitor was just a case of replace this and see what happens. Eventually I will spring for new (ebay) sensors.
(unless Subaru wants to sponsor me)

Bennie this is the stock ignitor on the mount it came with from the doner EJ
front


back


and the replacement



I would definitely get a piece of aluminium and some heat sink paste and make a bracket for it, as it will overheat and fail without one.

TOONGA

[RSR 555]

Wifey and I work as a team she makes I consult (taste)

I can see you and I have done a lot of taste testing

How does the ECU know, apart from the knock sensor to advance or retard the timing? and how is the timing retarded or advanced at the motor?

Throttle Position & Air Flow Meter plus in areas of the ECU mapping it also uses the O2 sensor

Wouldn't the ECU need as many signals as possible to control the timing so that the knock sensor was the last resort?

An ECU doesn't really need that many sensors to run an engine but to do it as efficiently as possible Subaru use lots of sensors. Cheap ECU systems use bugger all sensors but don't run as good as higher priced units.

The knock sensor is there to protect the engine from hurting itself. It retards timing when it hears noise but it doesn't advance or retard during the normal course of daily driving.

Faulty as in working but sending the wrong signal.

The Ignitor does not send any signal to the ECU. It's the ECU that triggers the Ignitor via making contact to negative.

The Ignitor should only have 5 wires going to it. One is an earth, 2 are to the ECU and the other 2 go to the Coil. The Coil is powered from the Ignition Relay, then the negative side of the coil goes to the Ignitor. Because this is 12v power, there is a lot of power going back to the Ignitor, thus causing lots of heat and this is the reason you need to place the Ignitor on a heat sink. Using high grade cooling paste (best place to buy this is from Jaycar or a computer shop) to help with the transfer of this heat away from the Ignitor. Due to this heat and 12v power the Ignition Power from the Coil can not go back to the ECU.

[TOONGA]

Just a little update on jetcar.

Not quite sure how many kms Ive done since the motor went in but Ive done 3 oil changes since the EJ has gone in which works out to be around 30000 kms.

I decided to change the fuel filter this time and I'm glad I did. while the out end had nice clean fuel, the in end had a brown mud like substance pour out of it when I emptied it. I wish I had put it in a bottle and taken a picture. As well there was something rattling inside the filter (me thinks it was stuffed )

I must report the engine idles way better, has much better acceleration and actually sounds better (is that bit possible?)

TOONGA

[Willy Fisterbottom]

I have 4 Vortexs, would have 5 but an ex writt one off a few years back

[El_Freddo]

I must report the engine idles way better, has much better acceleration and actually sounds better (is that bit possible?)

I reckon it would be possible Toonga - if it's getting the correct fuel delivery there would be a bigger burn occurring, a bigger burn = more noise, which would mean a different note through the exhaust.

WF - No need to brag I think it's time for you to start some threads and ask a mod for a section in the restoration and build ups section (yarney should be able to help there ).

Cheers

Bennie

[steptoe]

I have 4 Vortexs, would have 5 but an ex writt one off a few years back

What does Gannon say ? Pics or it never happened - Vortices please

[TOONGA]

What does Gannon say ? Pics or it never happened - Vortices please

in his own thread thanks

TOONGA

[RSR 555]

I decided to change the fuel filter this time and I'm glad I did. while the out end had nice clean fuel, the in end had a brown mud like substance pour out of it when I emptied it. I wish I had put it in a bottle and taken a picture. As well there was something rattling inside the filter (me thinks it was stuffed )

Is this the same fuel you keep telling me is much cheaper down your way? I'll stick to the fuel up here