Venoms EJ25 L series project

AlpineRaven · Post by **AlpineRaven** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:15 pm

Ooh i wanna see it! should have come 4wd driving recent weekend... hope meet you someday!
Cheers
AP

Venom · Post by **Venom** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:52 pm

A bit of an update on my L series.
Biggest news is a few months back i had a FT4WD gearbox fitted. It was well worth the money because i wasn't a fan of the torque steer after the EJ went in. It's now quite resonable to drive while giving it the boot around town.

Fuel efficiency with the EJ25 is pretty poor around town (even trying to be conservative), and its one of the reasons i haven't put the lift and muddies on the car. I'm making an excel spread sheet to calculate out the km's i've been getting and will post details when i'm done. I'm currently looking at having an O2 sensor hooked up, fingers crossed it hasn't been bypassed on the ECU.

front rotors are undersized, both balljoints are rooted, front right wheel bearing is stuffed. I've ordered the lot today and will be putting them in Saturday. I've bought a Hanyes manual and i'm going to give it a go myself.

I bought a rear disc brake conversion ages ago. It's missing one of the slide pins and i haven't been able to find another. I'd really like to get the discs in if i can get a hold of a new pin.

Cheers,
Rhys

ScubyRoo · Post by **ScubyRoo** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:22 pm

Rhys, where'd you get the exhaust done? PM me with details if you like...

I remember how smick and mean your ej sounded on bennies last trip and well, honestly, i want mine to sound like that

Bugger about the upkeep you've got to put in.... The best fuel economy i've had with my ej22 was about 8.5L/100km with a clean k&n panel filter, new plugs, leads, oils, filters etc. Worst is 15L/100km, which i got on my first tank after putting the engine back in after doing the heads. The second tank got 12L, and I haven't filled up since the weekend, but I'm expecting about 9L as it was mostly highway and i'm using 98. I'm def curious as to how it'll go once i finally get my lift and put my new wheels on...

You're car definitely impressed on bennies trip, love that boxer sound without the ricer crap!

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:49 pm

Stick with it Rhys! Defenetly get the o2 sensor installed - I reckon that'll pull your fuel economy right in to where you think it should be if not better. I dunno if you'll get some more power or not, that may not change much if at all with an o2 sensor.

Once you've got that done (the o2 sensor) you'll be installing the lift and the bigger tyres too - I'd put $5 on it

I'm going to muster some courage to visit an engineer to talk about what I want to do with Ruby Scoo - I say muster some courage cos I only want to hear one option - MINE! Plan is pretty much the same as yours Rhys, but with an EJ22... We might be able to do something along the same lines in terms of engineering at the same time I do mine if you'd like, I'll make some enquires anyway

All the best with the o2 sensor installment.

Cheers

Bennie

Venom · Post by **Venom** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:56 pm

ScubyRoo i had my exhaust done while the conversion was taking place. I'm stopping by their on Sat to pick up my rear discs and i'll ask them what shop did the exhaust and i'll PM you the details.

Ok had a go at taking some pictures of my headers.

RIGHT side at the block, picture taken from front.

Left side 4-2 join, picture from front.

Left side 4-2 join again.

2-1 join, which occurs just behind the gearbox. Pic from RH side behind front wheel.

Closeup of the 2-1 join just before the cat.

ScubyRoo · Post by **ScubyRoo** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:08 pm

El_Freddo wrote:Stick with it Rhys! Defenetly get the o2 sensor installed - I reckon that'll pull your fuel economy right in to where you think it should be if not better. I dunno if you'll get some more power or not, that may not change much if at all with an o2 sensor.

Benny's got it in one. The o2 sensor is responsible for measuring the emissions in the exhaust, feeds that back to the ECU and adjust the fuel injection accordingly, thus limits the engine from running too rich or too lean. Without it i'd guess the ecu is relying on other sensors (which?) to get what info it can... I doubt you'd get much difference in power, but you're efficient should improve markedly.

I'm going to muster some courage to visit an engineer to talk about what I want to do with Ruby Scoo - I say muster some courage cos I only want to hear one option - MINE! Plan is pretty much the same as yours Rhys, but with an EJ22... We might be able to do something along the same lines in terms of engineering at the same time I do mine if you'd like, I'll make some enquires anyway
Bennie

What's the deal with engineering? Costs? What sort of company does one go to for it? Wondering if an engineers cert would solve any insurance or problems from men in blue?

ScubyRoo · Post by **ScubyRoo** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:11 pm

noice exhaust, def keen to hear where u got it done!

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:26 pm

ScubyRoo wrote:Benny's got it in one. The o2 sensor is responsible for measuring the emissions in the exhaust, feeds that back to the ECU and adjust the fuel injection accordingly, thus limits the engine from running too rich or too lean. Without it i'd guess the ecu is relying on other sensors (which?) to get what info it can... I doubt you'd get much difference in power, but you're efficient should improve markedly.

I believe the ECU goes into a loop mode like the MPFI ECU does - when in this mode, usually while waiting for the o2 sensor to heat up to operating temp, the ECU runs the motor rich. This avoids any knocking problems but will result in running rich and chewing through the fun juice.

Oh and the o2 sensor constantly monitors the oxygen content of the exhaust. I can't remember the details of which way is what (leaner/richer) but with the feedback of the 02 sensor along with the knock sensor and a few others to work out what the driver wants to do with the throttle etc it will give the cylinders the appropriate amount of fuel for the 'situation'.

ScubyRoo wrote:What's the deal with engineering? Costs? What sort of company does one go to for it? Wondering if an engineers cert would solve any insurance or problems from men in blue?

I came across a vic roads page that lists all the certified VASS engineers in victoria - there's one in bendigo which suits me fine, so long as he doesn't object to a three inch lift kit

I dunno about costs, but I'm about to find out in the next month. Insurance wise it should be easier to get it covered - it'll def be a bonus on not having it insured. As for the boys in blue, you keep a copy of the engineer's certification in the glove box and produce these if they have any issues with your mods, provided the mods are on the certificate and are in a roadworthy condition (tyres and components tend to wear over time) you should be right.

Cheers

Bennie

AlpineRaven · Post by **AlpineRaven** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:48 pm

looking good there, would love to see how much power it has... How is EA FWD box holding up behind EJ25?
Cheers
AP

AndrewT · Post by **AndrewT** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:57 pm

looks like he's actually chucked an EA AWD box in...

AlpineRaven wrote:looking good there, would love to see how much power it has... How is EA FWD box holding up behind EJ25?
Cheers
AP

Venom wrote:A bit of an update on my L series.
Biggest news is a few months back i had a FT4WD gearbox fitted. It was well worth the money because i wasn't a fan of the torque steer after the EJ went in. It's now quite resonable to drive while giving it the boot around town.

Those EJ25's have a tincy bit more power than an EJ22 I beleive, maybe 9 or 10 kw. Altho a decent amount more torque.
It's a quad-cam one from a 1999 Outback - I was the one who originally bought the engine from the guy with the Outback lol, I test drove it before it was removed.
Still got the gearbox

AlpineRaven · Post by **AlpineRaven** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:05 pm

AndrewT wrote:looks like he's actually chucked an EA AWD box in...

Those EJ25's have a tincy bit more power than an EJ22 I beleive, maybe 9 or 10 kw. Altho a decent amount more torque.
It's a quad-cam one from a 1999 Outback - I was the one who originally bought the engine from the guy with the Outback lol, I test drove it before it was removed.
Still got the gearbox

Ahhh okay.. fair enough... Mmm sounds good there
Cheers
AP

Venom · Post by **Venom** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:21 pm

Yes the EA dual range fulltime box, with centre diff lock. I bought it off schultzie. It's either got the 1.59 ratio in it already, or the EJ25 is so torquey i can't notice the difference between the 1.19 and 1.59. Eitherway its certainly more capable than it was with the EA82.
Cheers,
Rhys

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:04 pm

What outbacks got the quad cam motor? I thought they were all single cam motors?

niterida · Post by **niterida** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:58 pm

AFAIK the Gen 2 Outbacks are DOHC, the Gen 3's are SOHC

Venom · Post by **Venom** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:15 am

This saturday i went to Melbourne so i could install the rotors, bearings and balljoints in my mums garage. The first side took ages to pull apart, then i retreated to the forums and printed off the instructions AndrewT posted in guyphs thread about wheel bearings. Second side took about 20mins to pull apart

I'm a bit pissed off because none of the old bearings were sealed, and i specifically asked for sealed bearings when i last had them done. Anyway, everything went okay untill i tried to install the inner bearing seals, at which point i realised the bearing kits i'd been given each had two outer seals. Useless. My old inners where stuffed so i couldn't put them in either, not that i wanted to after putting in that much effort. Sat arvo so of course everything was shut till monday morning. I had to be back in Ballarat on Sun so my L series is waiting in pieces back in Melbourne untill next weekend.

-Andrews instructions i used. Very, very heplfull. My haynes manual just said "take driveshaft and hub to dealership for seperation". Stuff that, block of wood and hammer lol.

AndrewT wrote:I got my bearings from Coventrys but I think they are probably cheaper directly from CBC bearings.
Make sure you get the sealed type - the ball bearings themselves are obscured from view by coveres in the sides. These are more resistant to mud, sand etc.

Lemme see....this should basically cover it.

First side;

- Remove the split pin from the large castellated nut
- Use a 36mm socket and large breaker bar to crack the thread on this bolt and loosen it slightly
- Put front of car on axel stands (or an umbrella stand) and chuck a few rims under for added safety
- Take front wheels off
- Remove the roll pin from the inner CV cup
- Take the two bolts out of the strut which hold it in the top of the hub
- Stomp on the top of the hub with your boot to separate it from the strut - at this point the inner CV cup may slip itself off the gearbox stub
- Finish taking the castellated nut off (take note of exactly which way the flat washer goes, it isn't actually flat)
- Unplug the inner CV cup off the gearbox stub if it didn't fall off already
- Push the outer CV through the hub and remove the driveshaft all together - you may need to hold a softish block of wood against the outside part and give it a few thumps, sometimes they can be stuck pretty good - key point here is to protect the thread because if you bugger it up it's time for a new outer CV joint
- Unbolt the steering rack tierod ends from the hub and separate them.
- Now the only thing holding the hub to the car is the balljoint. Either undo the nut that holds the balljoint in the hub, or undo the nut that holds the balljoint to the control arm and separate them - doesn't really matter which way you do this.
- Now the hub is completely separate to the car. There are two bearing races in it, an outer and an inner (they are both identical) and two round rubber seals (a big and a small).
- Unbolt the outer hub bit and take the brake disc rotor off
- Remove the rubber seals by levering them out with a flat screwdriver. Remember which one goes where (big, little), I can't at the moment.
- Now to remove the bearings. There are probably a few methods to doing this but this is how I've done it.
- Rest the hub up on two blocks of wood so it's raised and the middle bit dangles down towards the ground instead of sitting on it.
- Use a crappy old socket extension bar (or some other similarly sized rod of metal) and pass it through the hub and push it against the bearing race which is at the bottom.
- Tap the bearing race out, a few taps alternating opposite sides until it gradually works look.
- Flip the hub over and do the other side.
- There is a metal ring in the middle which will fall out, don't loose it and don't forget about it.
- At this stage you will be completely filthy with old dirty grease absolutely everywhere so take the opportunity to clean everything up. Basically you want to completely clean the hub and have it free from all sand etc. Then move to a new cleaner location to re-assemble it.
- Grease the inside of the hub abit then start installing the first bearing race. Tapping it in with the metal rod is abit dangerous because you can easily slip and bash the side of the bearing and ruin the side seal so I find it safer to use one of the old bearing races - hey it's exactly the right size! Just make sure it's clean first.
- Then put the middle ring thing back in the middle.
- Then install the second bearing race in the other side.
- Then install the two rubber seals - with enough grease you should be able to actually push these in with your fingers as they flex a little.
- Now pack the hell out of the middle of the hub and the bearings with axel grease, too much is okay as it squeezes out when you put it back on the car anyway.
- Put the hub back on the car and tighten the balljoint up.
- Re-insert the driveshaft through the hub (this can be a real bastard - sometimes it's actually easier to do this outside of the car and re-install the hub to the car with the driveshaft already in it).
- Plug the driveshaft back into the gearbox.
- Re-insert the strut back into the top of the hub. You will probably need to push the hub down with your boot to get this to work, it's abit of a squeeze.
- Re-tighten the bolts from the strut to the hub.
- Put the castellated nut and washers back on, not tight yet.
- Put wheel back on and drop the car back onto the wheel.
- Tighten the castellate nut up with the 36mm socket and breaker bar, excess grease will come out in a snake. This needs to be done up *very tight*.
- Go do the other side.

Despite the problem with the inner seals i'm pretty happy because this is the first time i've done some serious work to the Subaru myself. Pretty easy and alot cheaper than paying someone. Going to buy a 36mm socket for the castellan nut, i think it'll be a good investment.

Cheers,
Rhys

guyph_01 · Post by **guyph_01** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:10 pm

Great work mate, yeah andrews little write up is very very helpfull. The 36mm socket would be a good investement if you ever need to repalce cv's etc... Keep up the good work

Cheerz
Guyph

Venom · Post by **Venom** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:28 am

Quick update. O2 sensor is installed in the exhaust, cost me $40 but i'm not complaining. I picked up a second hand O2 sensor to dummy fit plus i figured it would be handy to have the plug! Booked in with the auto elect on Wednesday to have the sensor wired up to the ECU. I have a new universal 3-wire O2 sensor to fit, $54 off ebay.

Looking over the last few months of fuel reciepts and i've been getting on average 10.7L/100km, worst 10.9L/100km, best 10.5L/100km. Some of that has been very spirited driving, which is obviously only a very marginal effect on fuel consumption. So i'm looking forward to my fuel bills after the sensor goes in and my car can actually regulate fuel properly.

I got sick of my spare tyre sliding around in the back of the car and been paranoid of it taking off my head in a crash. So i went to a shop and bought a bolt to bolt it into the child restraint mounting point in the back. Worked a treat.

Picked up a set of L series AC hoses (mine went missing during conversion). Will have these mated up to the EJ25 hoses i currently have off the AC compressor. AC was wired up during the conversion, so just need to plug it in!

I've used Bennies idea of shortening the stock L series engine stay brace. Had a good friend of mine here in ballarat do an awesome job cutting/welding it up. Very happy as its resolved some driveline shuddering that i was experiencing on take-off and gear changes. Cost me a 6-pack.

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:18 pm

Good to hear mate! I thought you were getting a lot worse from your fuel usage than what you've posted... I haven't worked mine out but I reckon the worse has been 12 to the 100 and the best has been near 8 or 9 to the 100. I'll have to get you some proper figures later from the log book

Hope it goes as well as you hope! As for the moving of the fuel line, it wouldn't be hard to run a new line down the left hand side of the subi with the other lines. Easiest would be to drill two new holes (then plugged with a grommet) for the fuel line to pass through at the front fire wall and just under the rear seat. Biggest part of the job would be pulling the interior out and re-installing it...

Cheers

Bennie

Venom · Post by **Venom** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:15 pm

Thanks Bennie! Once i've finished my final year thesis i'll take some time to move the wiring and fuel line doing something like you've suggested. The O2 sensor was wired up on wednesday, it took the guy 3 hours to find the plug! I won't have an update on the fuel consumption untill late next week i think. Looking forward to seeing how it goes.

Cheers,
Rhys

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:51 pm

Venom wrote:I won't have an update on the fuel consumption untill late next week i think. Looking forward to seeing how it goes.

Me too mate!

I'm playing around with the rear muffler to make some more subi beat noise out the back - I've gained a new appreciation for those who work in the exhaust system business! Hopefully it'll be a success but as it stands incomplete it's VERY noisy. Can't wait for a real system!

Will we be seeing you on the GOR cruise next weekend?

Cheers

Bennie