Subaru Wheel/Rim Offset

Cliff R · Post by **Cliff R** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:30 pm

I have been looking at the various offsets on the 13" rims I have at my disposal.
What I was looking for was where in relation to the inner/inside of the rim edge does the hub face sit (where the rim bolts onto the car).
The further the hub face sits towards the inner/inside edge of the rim the further the rim sits out towards the outer edge of the car and so filling out the guards better.

There are 2 sets of rims I have and they are.

1991 L series steel "sunnys" which came with my L series sports wagon (when I had it. These are the rims Subaru used to fit to the L series from the factory. Not what I call "after market". Yes, I know they are but sort of aren't (if that makes sense)

And

Off my 1982 Touring wagon which are marked Subaru but I guess they were made under license for Subaru.

Both rims are 5 x 13" with one obviously being made of Aluminium and the other Steel.
The alloy rim is marked as-
5-J13 45. There appears to be a date on it of 81,1,28
The 5 and the 13 are obvious and the 45 is the offset (positive I think)

The Steel rim are marked as -
J13x4,5J DOT. There appears to be a date on it of 091891

Now checking the offset on the Alloy rim the 45mm was certainly correct.
Looking at the Steel rim the offset ended up being approx. 55 to 57mm.

What this means is there is a difference of about 10 to 12mm between the rims and there is less offset on the MY Alloy rims that there is on the Steel L series rims and this means the Alloy rim sits further out towards the outside of the guard.
I guess this is not earth shattering news

and there isn't much difference between the rims but it means I may ditch the L series Sunnys and re fit the Alloy MY rims to give a better look.
I now have to decide on what to do with the 14" rims are tyres

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:59 pm

stash 'em like the rest of us

henpecked · Post by **henpecked** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:33 pm

Hi , in this thread http://www.ausubaru.com.au/showthread.php?t=24979

i've posted all I can find re rims and offsets

you will find that your measurements are verified in that thread E = offset

here are the advertised factory standard issue rims

SUBARU LEONE, BRUMBY 77-85 .....4 X 140,,,,,,,E 42
SUBARU L series ............86-........4 X 140,,,,,,,E 55

Cliff R · Post by **Cliff R** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:33 am

henpecked
Great info, I will be going through it shortly.
I haven't totally given up on the 14's as I really like their offset and how they look on the car even if the tyres are too big in diameter to be comfortable with the old EA81.
I my ideal world and for the best look I would like to keep the 14's and use lower profile tyres. I know this defeats what most of us are trying to achieve in the way of raising the ground clearance but it suits my needs. I also want to avoid installing a speedo cable correction gearbox in case at some stage I end up back with stock wheels so again keeping the 14's with lower profile tyres is good for me. These gearboxes seem to be about $300 or so which is a cost I don't need.
I need to understand the legalities of rim diameter and offset for NSW so I will digest your info and send off an e mail to the Certification Engineer I use. He may need to see the car but that's ok, he is only about 150ks away. Being fully legal is vitally important to me as after 32 years the MY wagon would probably fail a "pits/blue slip" inspection. It is totally roadworthy as it passes rego each year but a full inspection which is what would be demanded if the Police defect the car would be a major issue.

Cliff R · Post by **Cliff R** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:07 pm

The following is relevant to the NSW RMS rules and regulations regarding the legal requirements for the fitting of rims and tyres that are NOT of the original/standard type.
I have made contact with my Mechanical Engineer and asked for info on fitting the 14 x 6 rims to the MY.
He is sick at the moment so I am not pushing anything but I have asked, if, apart from the requirements on what does not need engineering certification could the 14x6 rims be able to be engineer approved for use or is this something he would not be willing to do at all.
I have not had a reply back as of yet.
It is worth anyone in NSW who is considering changing their rims and tyres to read NSW Vehicle Standards (9) - Guidelines for alternative wheels and tyres.
I stated to him that-
The original rims were:

4-1/2 x 13" with a positive offset of 55 mm and are 4 stud x 140 PCD

The original tyres were-

175/70/13

Proposed rims are-

6 x 14" with a positive offset of 17mm and are also a 4 stud x 140 PCD.

THE ANSWER WAS-

The rims that you propose are not suitable due to the offset. Unless there was
an original rim with an offset of 29mm, the 17mm offset rims will increase the
track width by more than the allowable 25mm. If the original rims had an
offset of 55mm, you could only reduce that to 43mm to get to the track
increase limit of 25mm.

VSI 9 remains the applicable document for NSW for now. It is backed by a
schedule of the Motor Vehicle (Vehicle Registration) Regulation 2007 that
limits track increase on cars and derivatives to 25mm.

Provided that the tyre diameter remains within 15mm of original, the track
increases by no more than 25mm and the rim width increases by no more than
26mm, the wheels do not require certification.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:09 pm

the last line - looks like it may be possible for a signatory on RMS list of approved engineers and blue slippers may be able to review the application and approve and certify if within their own set of parameter$.

Did you get an invoice for that info ?

henpecked · Post by **henpecked** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:17 pm

[quote="Cliff R"]

you need to include the informations that Factory options were rims of 5x13" + 45 and +42

this makes 6" wide rims legal and gives a wider legal rage of offsets

Cliff R · Post by **Cliff R** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:20 pm

Steptoe
If you mean by invoice was there any payment required for the info, then no, there was no payment it was just advise only.
I appreciate his time is money so I don't ask big questions as this I would expect to pay for.
I am not seeing myself going too much further with the 14" rims as even if they need engineering as there goes the best part of $400 for the certificate plus new tyres to match the 13's diameter otherwise I will need a speedo gearbox to fix the speedo reading. There goes another $300 or so.
If I can pick up a set of 13" rims with a slightly better offset than standard I will be happy and even happier if I can avoid engineering.
I will check with Tyre Power tomorrow to see what is available in 13's that are 5 to 5.5 wide and a good (legal) offset. 5 of these is still cheaper and what I am after compared to the 14's.
Guess if anyone is interested in the 14's (set of 5) with 4 good tyres the same and one a mud tyre let me know.

Cliff R · Post by **Cliff R** » Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:48 pm

I am hoping to stop being a misery guts shortly and actually make a decision on new rims for the MY.
The problem is I thought I was indecisive but now I am not sure.

Anyway, I went to Tyre power this arvo and made enquires on new, aftermarket 13" rims.
Kings rims have 13" x 5.5 which is exactly what I want.
They have a 14mm positive offset and are $70.00 each.
I haven't worked out the comparison of the original steel Subaru rim offset (4.5") with the Kings rim offset (5.5") to see if it fits with the 25mm track legalities.
P.S the original steel Subaru rims were 4-1/2" J 13 not 5" wide.

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:53 pm

Wait so someone actually still makes 4x140 PCD wheels?

Care to post a link or some pics, or have I got this all wrong...

Cliff R · Post by **Cliff R** » Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:58 pm

Yep, I asked for 13" rims for a 1982 Subaru Leone (no point mentioning the car is a Touring wagon, that just gets blank looks) and stated it is NOT the L series but the model that looks like the Brumby (that does the trick).
I will make some more calls tomorrow to the 2 other tyre centres but I understand the Kings Rims are the only ones available.
Price is pretty good too.

Cliff R · Post by **Cliff R** » Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:00 pm

Silverbullet wrote:Wait so someone actually still makes 4x140 PCD wheels?

Care to post a link or some pics, or have I got this all wrong...

No pics but I looked on the Kings Rims web site and I guess the rims that look like Sunnies are the ones.

henpecked · Post by **henpecked** » Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:38 pm

Cliff R wrote: I went to Tyre power this arvo and made enquires on new, aftermarket 13" rims.
Kings rims have 13" x 5.5 which is exactly what I want.
They have a 14mm positive offset and are $70.00 each.
I haven't worked out the comparison of the original steel Subaru rim offset (4.5") with the Kings rim offset (5.5") to see if it fits with the 25mm track legalities.
P.S the original steel Subaru rims were 4-1/2" J 13 not 5" wide.

The track, also known as the tread, is the distance between the centers of the wheels (tyres) on the same axle. This means that changing wheel rim width ( or tyre width) , but keeping the same offset , will not change your track, even if you change your tyre width.

However going from +42 (standard 4.5" rim width ) or +45 ( Subaru factory option of alloys or steel both at 5.0" width) to +17 will be a significant change in track, irrespective of the rim or tyre width.

the original factory option codes for MY83 optional rims were

SA 150 Wheel - white 5Jx13" (single) station wagon, touring wagon , brumby only
SA 197 Wheels - alloy 5Jx13" (set of 4) all models

if all you want are a set of Subaru factory option SA 150 wheels, ( not desert rats or other aftermarket ones) then I have two sets (13") excess to my requirements, and I will be traveling from Adelaide to melb/can/syd in aug/sept and can drop off a set if you cannot find any over there. I could also get you a set of factory standard steel wheels if that what you want, but I'll have to buy them over here.

Cliff R · Post by **Cliff R** » Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:11 pm

Henpecked
Thanks for the plain English info.
As I am reading your message it is late so I need to digest what you have written later on.
You have gone a long way to convince me the Kings Rims wont get me out of the crap regarding offset so I am thinking of sticking to the original Subaru alloys and trying to get a hold of more. One for a spare and others for general spares.
Can I confirm the SA 150 white rims are the ones I have in my first photo of this thread and the SA 197 are the second photo I have on this thread ?

henpecked · Post by **henpecked** » Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:53 am

Cliff R wrote:Henpecked

Can I confirm the SA 150 white rims are the ones I have in my first photo of this thread

That are almost certainly Subaru issue white rims - HOWEVER I don't know for certain if the MY rims had MY offsets , and the L rims had L offsets, as i posted above in this tread - the two models did have different offsets - and I have often read on this forum that rims that fit inside one models' fenders , don't fit inside the other's.

Cliff R wrote:and the SA 197 are the second photo I have on this thread ?

They are definitely Subaru issue factory option issue, and the various MY JDM and US sales brochures mostly include photos that are certainly of this design. They also get listed on the Japan sites as subaru MY factory wheels. if they have the +42 or +45 MY offsets then they would be MY factory options.

IMHO

cheers

Cliff R · Post by **Cliff R** » Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:51 pm

Yesterday I e mailed my Mechanical Engineer with the following question.

"For clarity could you please confirm if you are willing to provide an engineering certificate for the following rims or is it a case of being outside the parameter of 25mm offset there is nothing that can be done."
Option 1

Steel rims 14" x 6" with 17mm offset

Option 2
Steel rims 13" x 5.5" with 14mm offset

The reply back today was-

"Neither of those options can be certified at
present. The 25mm limit is part of the NSW regulation and while there is
suggestion that that may change in the future, it is by no means certain and
we can only use that change once it is gazetted."

I guess this means in order to remain legal in NSW I have no further options than standard steel (sunnie style) or alloys.

I have checked with Beaurepairs this after noon and after a phone call to their distributor the Kings Rims with the 14mm offset is all there is available on the market.

Cliff R · Post by **Cliff R** » Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:09 pm

I have a question

I understand the standard steel Subaru rims have the following dimensions for the following years.

SUBARU LEONE, BRUMBY 77-85 4 X 140 E 42
SUBARU L series 86- 4 X 140 E 55

From this it appears there are offset differences between the early and the late models.
I am wondering if anyone has any of the white, Sunnie style, Subaru aftermarket rims from an early 80's MY or Brumby.
I don't mean the same rim from an L series (more commonly found on this model I think)
I already have a set off the 92 model L series I sold and I know what their offset is and they are stamped as being made in 1991.

My question is, is the offset is the same for the earlier models Sunnies style rims and the same in the later model L series.

I guess I could also look at the Pug rims. They are 14's which is OK and their offset (depending on model) may come within the 25mm total offset.
Failing this I may get my L series sunnies sand blasted and powder coated to bring them back to new and use them legally.

henpecked · Post by **henpecked** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:22 pm

Cliff R wrote:I have a question

fire away

....

I am wondering if anyone has any of the white, Sunnie style, Subaru aftermarket rims from an early 80's MY or Brumby.

yes I have a set of these

I don't mean the same rim from an L series (more commonly found on this model I think)

yes I understand the difference - I think I also have a set of these

My question is, is the offset is the same for the earlier models Sunnies style rims and the same in the later model L series..

I don't think so, I seem to remember checking my two sets of 13" white subaru sunrasias mentioned in an above post and realising that they had different offsets. This probably explains why the MY series white sunraysia wheels will stick out more on a L than the L series rims of the same design, but not as much as a set of Speedies desert rats which have an offset of +25?.

Cliff R · Post by **Cliff R** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:51 pm

henpecked
Thanks for your last message.
I am focusing on the rust in the roof issue at the moment but I will be coming back to the rims when this is sorted and I have gathered some more cash
My understanding on the white, factory, steel rims is -
1. the offset (positive, sticking out towards the outside of the car) is greater for the MY rims than the L series rims that look the same.
2. from the above, the MY and the L series, white steel rims definitely have different offsets.
If the above points are correct I will refrain from having my L series (1991) rims sandblasted and powder coated and will look for a set of MY rims and with the better offset revamp them.

henpecked · Post by **henpecked** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:58 pm

The Higher the positive offset ( and the lower the negative offset) , the LESS the wheel protrudes out of the car for the same rim width.
So a speedy at +25 sticks out past the guard/fender more than a MY at +43 , which in turn sticks out less than a L at +55.

I'll double check my sets tomorrow when its light and re-post