Performance tyres for Outback ?

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valerian
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Post by valerian » Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:40 pm

Here is more update on the BF Goodrich Long Trail T/A Tour tyres I have on my Outback. I just completed a trip on Oodnadatta trail and around. The tyres got some bruising and non-penetrating puncturing, but survived. So far, I have made 15k km on these tyres, about 95%/5% on-road/off-road. Recently I became happy with the tyres -- I finally got back that feeling that the car goes wherever I point the steering wheel without the car understeering and slipping. I think this is because 1/3 of the thread weared off, and those annoying sipes disappeared.* My next tyre would be with the solid shoulder lugs, without the sipes. (It is hard to find such modern highway-terrain tyres, as all of them seem to have the all-weather all-season-enhancing sipes. And I think I should not go for passenger car tyres, as they would be less puncture-resistant on rocky roads.)

--
* However, it is possible, that the tyre thread is made of several layers of different hardness; it is possible that the wear took away the hard layer, and exposed the soft layer -- hence is the improvement in handling.

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Post by valerian » Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:14 pm

Bob Jane added Kumho tyres into its range. They have a Road Venture APT KL51 model. It's a "T" speed version, though (not a performance "H").

Below is the test where they were pitched against BF Goodrich Long Trail T/A Tour, http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/tes ... p?ttid=127

BFG had a more precise steering than Kumho, however Kumho had less of understeering.

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Post by valerian » Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:57 pm

Well, it looks like I have to get another set of tyres later in the year (I would get maybe 35k km out of the BFG Long Trail Tour instead of the US-guaranteed 100k km).

I am eyeing the more performance-like tyres such as Maxxis MA-S2 Marauder II or General Grabber UHP. They both have a unidirectional thread and are a bit softer than a touring tyre. I approached the companies' representatives in Australia and authorised dealers, and it came out that the former tyre in my size (205/70/R15) is not stocked in Australia, and the latter tyre is out of stock.

So that I am eyeing a next best thing, Maxxis MA-P1. The dealers have them in stock and sell for $140. It is not a directional tyre but it is touted by the manufacturer as a "performance" "touring" tyre. I am not quite sure whether it is performing well enough (I am concerned mostly about dry cornering grip). The other prospective tyre is Federal Couragia S/U ($147). It is a unidirectional tyre which is promising for performance. However, there are almost no reviews and a general opinion about Federal tyres is that they could be of an inferior quality (i.e., give vibration and is easy to puncture on sides). I wonder which one is better.

EDIT: All of the tyres mentioned above rated at an H speed.

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Touring Tyres for 6/2002 Compliance Forester

Post by sub-mum » Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:24 am

Hi There
Have been reading your posts about tyres for Outback. Just wondering if the same principles would apply for my Forester? Definitely need touring tyres as I drive Fire Trails every couple of weeks, but the Geolanders I have on now really squeal a LOT! Have contacted Bridgestone and an independant tyre retailer after reading that Drive magazine recommended the Bridgestone Dueler HL D/683 for Foresters. The independant recommended Kumho's over the Bridgestone, so just wondering if anyone else has any further info please?
Thanks !

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Post by valerian » Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:09 pm

sub-mum wrote:... the Geolanders I have on now really squeal a LOT!
If you want to get a less-squealing tyre, use the following principles:

1. The softer is the rubber, the less it will squeal. Get the "V"- or "H"-speed rated tyres instead of "S" or "T" ones.

2. Tyres with higher void ratio will squeal more. (You need more rubber touching the ground to have less squeal.) In other words, do not get an "All-Terrain" type of SUV tyre; get a "Highway-Terrain" type.

3. Also the tyres with smaller tread lugs and with lots of sipes would squeal more. In other words, do not get a Highway-Terrain SUV tyre; get a passenger tyre. If getting the passenger tyre, do not get an "all-season" one; get a "summer" one instead.

As an illustration, Geolandars are an H speed rated tyre. And Yokohamas are known for having a softer rubber. It has less sipes that a comparable SUV tyre. So, why does it still squeal ? Probably because the rubber is old and thus is hard.

The tyre Bridgestone Dueler HL D/683 line has mostly H-speed models, but it has S- and T-speed models in it as well. It could do the trick. As far as I know this is a competent but an unremarkable tyre.

Kumho tyres have reputation of the soft rubber tyres. They handle better, but they wear out quicker. Some people insist on having a tyre with at least 50-60k km tread life in it, otherwise it is a bad tyre for them. As for me, I'd prefer a tyre with a good grip and at least 30k km life in it.

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Post by sub-mum » Tue May 03, 2011 1:52 pm

Thanks very much Valerian - I am with you, rather have a tyre that grips a lot.
Cheers

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Post by valerian » Thu May 05, 2011 4:56 pm

submum -- hopefully you got the tyre you are happy with :-)

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Post by Gannon » Thu May 05, 2011 5:33 pm

I have just passed the 30,000km mark with my Bridgestone Turanza ER592's

They still grip good, except when there is heaps of water on the road, they tend to feel a little aquaplaney. But i put that down to the worn tread
Current rides: 2016 Mitsubishi Triton GLS & 2004 Forester X
Ongoing Project/Toy: 1987 RX Turbo EA82T, Speeduino ECU, Coil-pack ignition, 440cc Injectors, KONI adjustale front struts, Hybrid L Series/ Liberty AWD 5sp
Past rides: 92 L series turbo converted wagon, 83 Leone GL Sedan, 2004 Liberty GT Sedan & 2001 Outback
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Post by valerian » Fri May 13, 2011 5:43 pm

Suparoo wrote:I my Bridgestone Turanza ER592's
Do you still feel the squishy soft sidewall ?

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Post by Gannon » Sat May 14, 2011 1:06 am

Nah i think that was only because i had what the tyre card said, ive added a couple more pound and it seems better (or i have gotten used to it)
Current rides: 2016 Mitsubishi Triton GLS & 2004 Forester X
Ongoing Project/Toy: 1987 RX Turbo EA82T, Speeduino ECU, Coil-pack ignition, 440cc Injectors, KONI adjustale front struts, Hybrid L Series/ Liberty AWD 5sp
Past rides: 92 L series turbo converted wagon, 83 Leone GL Sedan, 2004 Liberty GT Sedan & 2001 Outback
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Post by valerian » Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:44 am

Here is the newly released tyre Michelin Energy XM2. They claim it has 20% mileage than its predecessor XM1+. They say they developed this tyre to be stronger with the focus of using it in the "emerging countries" where the road is harsh and could damage the sidewalls and tread easily.

The tyre will go on sale in Australia in June 2011.

I wonder what will it performance be. I suspect the cornering grip will be dismal.

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Post by GOD » Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:58 pm

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valerian
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Post by valerian » Tue Jun 14, 2011 1:10 am

Are you saying this is a one-actor theater ?

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Post by valerian » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:15 pm

valerian wrote:Here is the newly released tyre Michelin Energy XM2.
I called to the Michelin phone on their website (public relations ?), and asked about the availability of the tyre in my size (205/70R15). The woman said some tyres already in stores, and more coming "next week". However, no tyres in my size, and she does not know when they are shipped to Australia.

I called to a Tyreplus (an official Michelin dealer), and the man on the other side of the phone told me that some tyres are already available, and the tyre in my size would come in 2-3 months.

Go figure... the retailers know more about stuff availability than the resellers. :o

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Post by Gannon » Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:37 pm

Well im going to start looking into new tyres (the current ones still have life, but not much)

The only close tyre dealers are Bridgestone and Beaurepairs, but last time i went to the latter, the only tyre on offer was the Eagle NCT5, so i went to Bridgestone and got the Turanza ER592.

Now with Bridgestone, my options are according to the website are in entry touring, Firestone TZ700 and in premium touring, Turanza GR-90 and Turanza ER30

What do ya reckon?

Im gonna call into Bridgestone to talk to the guy there
Current rides: 2016 Mitsubishi Triton GLS & 2004 Forester X
Ongoing Project/Toy: 1987 RX Turbo EA82T, Speeduino ECU, Coil-pack ignition, 440cc Injectors, KONI adjustale front struts, Hybrid L Series/ Liberty AWD 5sp
Past rides: 92 L series turbo converted wagon, 83 Leone GL Sedan, 2004 Liberty GT Sedan & 2001 Outback
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Post by valerian » Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:24 pm

Gannon, I have never been able to find anything of interest in my size in Bridgstone. So that I have not done much of a specific research into Bridgestone tyres. But I recall recently visiting the Indian automotive forums, and they compared the performance of the Turanza GR-90 and Turanza ER30 tyres as equal or better compared to that of Michelin XM1 and Yokohama A.drive tyres, that kind of things. Generally speaking, in terms of performance, you should be all right with a tyre that has an H speed rating and is classified as "grand touring" tyre (as opoosed to a lower-grade "standard touring" -- the classification is taken e.g., from tirerack.com).

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Post by Gannon » Sat Jun 25, 2011 9:11 pm

I called in and had a chat to the guy at Bridgestone, he was actually very helpful.

He basically narrowed it down to 2 types

The Turanza GR-90 as mentioned previously
[size=-1]The Turanza GR-90 offers the ultimate in ride comfort, noise reduction and handling. Its superior design and noise-reduction technologies set a new standard for extreme quiet, while the outstanding dynamics and better water dispersion lead to a high level of safety and comfort. The Turanza GR-90 has been designed for motorists who want the highest level of ride comfort combined with Bridgestone's legendary levels of quality and safet[/size]
Image

And to my surprise, the Ecopia EP100
[size=-1]Utilizing global research capabilities and cutting edge technology, Bridgestone have created a lower rolling resistance tyre that maintains the high quality and safety standards that Bridgestone is renowned for.
The lower rolling resistance of ECOPIA EP100 improves your vehicle's fuel efficiency and reduces the amount of CO2 emitted into the environment.[/size]
Image

I was a little sceptical of the Ecopia, but the guy seemed to know what he was talking about and that both the GR90 and EP100 are very close, grip wise and longevity wise, according to him, up to 50k kms. I told him my number one priority in a tyre is wet grip and aquaplaning resistance, closely followed by dry cornering.

His response was that both these tyres are almost equally good in at delivering in the wet, with the GR90 being slightly better at cornering, but the EP100 will save me fuel.

He showed me the tyres, I actually liked the look and feel of the tread on the EP100's over the GR90's, but I really cant read a tyre by its looks so it means nothing

I asked him what would be his choice, and he said the EP100, but i think he rates fuel over cornering.

I'll pop in there again when it gets closer to tyre replacement time
Current rides: 2016 Mitsubishi Triton GLS & 2004 Forester X
Ongoing Project/Toy: 1987 RX Turbo EA82T, Speeduino ECU, Coil-pack ignition, 440cc Injectors, KONI adjustale front struts, Hybrid L Series/ Liberty AWD 5sp
Past rides: 92 L series turbo converted wagon, 83 Leone GL Sedan, 2004 Liberty GT Sedan & 2001 Outback
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Post by valerian » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:04 am

I have a "fuel-saving" H/T tyre. It has a silica compound which is supposedly good for traction in wet. In my experience, the grip is good when going in wet around a turn of a radius of 50 m at a speed of 110 km/s. The grip is not good (for me !) when I drive around a roundabout of a diameter of 5 m at a speed of 40 km/h, either in wet or dry.

So depending on your application, Ecopia could be good.

And I think you did a good and correct approach to choosing the tyre. First you did a research on the Internet and shortlisted a few tyres, then dropped into the shop and felt them by your hands. Straight away you could see that you liked some for the tread, and did not like the others for something else etc.

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Post by valerian » Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:57 pm

An update. Next milestone. I wanted to get Michelin Energy XM2, but the dealer said they would not sell the tyres for the next 1.5-2 months. Perhaps the reseller wanted to clear out the stocks of XM1.

So that today I got the Dunlop LM703 tyres. It was the second on my list. I noticed straight away that the handling was "proper". I mean, good. Same feeling as I had with Yokohama A.drive. Lots of grip. This tyre meets the minimum of my requirements in terms of dry cornering grip. Though, it is slightly noisy compared with the BF Goodrich I had. But I guess I would get used to it.

More updates later.

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Post by valerian » Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:20 am

An update after 5 days and about 600 km. The tyres provide a quicker acceleration that what I had with the H/T tyres. I can now feel subtleties in the car handling and the steering wheel response. That's good. The other thing which I noticed that the car drives much smoother now. As if it rolls on a more plane (straight) surface, without shaking. I did not expect that, and that's a pleasant bonus.

I drove on the unsealed roads. The tyres are firmer, so that when the car hits a pothole it feels much more noticeable. But it is OK on an occasional trip on a country road. I did not notice a difference in grip with the highway-terrain tyre. The tread picked up little stones (maybe 10 per tyre), which was more than what I had with the previous tyre. This was the new tyre for 2006, and the all-terrain tyre Grandtrek AT3 was released in 2008 which had a very similar tread, except with some sipes. Thus, the LM703 would probably good for some mud.

There were two main reasons why I wanted to get something more performance-orientated than BF Goodrich Long Trail T/A Tour I had. Firstly, the BF Goodrich tyres were understeering during the initial 50% of their life when I was going around a small roundabout at a speed of 30 km/h and above. Secondly, the tyres were loudly squealing when I was trying to go at a speed of 50 km/h around a 15 m diameter roundabout (around smaller roundabouts, too). I am glad to say that the new tyres (LM703) do not have those issues. When I go around a small roundabout, the tyres do not understeer anymore -- it is fun to drive now. When I go around a large roundabout, the maximum speed is still 50 km/h, but the tyres now produced a muffled squeal occasionally, which is OK with me because it would not attract an undesirable attention. The only disadvantage is that the tyre does not seem to have a gradual loss of traction when cornering -- it tends to lose grip rather abruptly when I am speeding around a large roundabout. But I blame for it the off-road suspension of the Outback -- the car would do it with any firm passenger tyre.

The grip on wet bitumen was al'right. Some people reported that after 50% of tread is gone, it is a different tyre, with a much reduced wet grip. When I hit a puddle, the car jerked back more than what it did with the previous tyre. Well, I kind of expected that, because I specifically chose the tyre with the minimum amount of sipes -- I live on the edge of the desert, and wet handling was least of my requirements.

Some people say that due to its "performance" heritage, the LM703 tyre tends to be more noisy. I would say that the tyre produces more noise than the previous tyre or the A.drive tyre. However, if I had experience with only LM703 and no other tyre, then I would say that LM703 is quiet. The LM703 which goes to the European market has a sponge attached inside the tyre which is supposed to absorb some of the noise, however the Australian-imported tyre has no such sponge.

I would say the tyre is much on par with a popular Yokohama A.drive tyre which I used to have on another car. All in all, I think it was a good buy, and I am wondering why I did not buy it before. But it was not available before, this is why, I guess.

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