Camber???

Subiegirl · Post by **Subiegirl** » Wed May 12, 2010 12:36 pm

Hi Guys

wondering if i could get some advice and knowledge on my 92 brumby.
Firstly, not sure if this is important tyres currently running 155/80R13,
On the left front wheel has gone completely bald on the outer rim, this is the 2nd tyre on that side i have gone through, right front is fine with minor outside wearing typical of front wheel drive cars.

Already had a wheel alignment done before i went through the 2nd tyre.

Took it down to JaxQuickfit to check camber, as u can clearly see from the ground when the wheels are straight that the left tyre is sitting on the outer edge. It took them 50mins going over my car, only to tell me that the camber is not adjustable (which i suspected) and that no bushes were worn, suspension is fine, and that they cannot find anything wrong with my steering, cv's, or struts? I was running 32psi, now i have it up to 38psi to help even the wearing.

What i want to know is, i was looking to buy a new set of firestones 185/60R14 for my 14" sunraysia rims to go on, but if im going to have to replace them on that side every 3 months, its going to cost me a pretty penny. So has anyone had a similar issue? or knows whats wrong so i can fix it. Is there any way i can change my nonadjustable camber into an adjustable one from a later model suby/ other vehicle? i would like to have a slightly negative camber as it suits my driving style, is this possible? Also, could the fact that the tyres are too skinny have something to do with this?

Sorry to ask so many questions, but i'm getting nervous about gettin a defect notice for running baldys, so want to fix the prob asap and dont want to waste precious suby fund cash on shitty chingmanfoo tyres.

any advice and help muchly appreciated

cheers

spike · Post by **spike** » Wed May 12, 2010 1:05 pm

somthings bent................................................

it could be the rims, doubtfull, shockers maybe?? but this would have a strage feel i presume.
thje way the subaru is built its not common to have one wearing more than the other on a subaru.
the subaru is not a typical front wheel drive car, beauce its gearbox is in the center and the engine is longetudal the driveshafts are the same length. in a normal front wheel drive car with a horizontal engine one drive shaft can be up to twice the length of the other, torque steer and the like, basically who ever said it doesnt know subarus or just wants to give somthing as a reason pretending you wont care

Subiegirl · Post by **Subiegirl** » Wed May 12, 2010 1:30 pm

ok...so perhaps i should get it checked somewhere else?

hmm...i couldn't believe it when the guy told me there was nothing wrong, cause i've never seen that happen on any of my vehicles i've owned, but this is my first suby, and thought perhaps it was just another peculiarity, and boy do i love my car!!!

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Wed May 12, 2010 1:49 pm

smash repairers have a good eye for these sort of things - to see if body is bent. Have you owned long enough before for earlier tyres to give good wear THEN found this happening. 155/80 tyres must feel like poop. roundabouts increase lhf wear.

Post by **Alex** » Wed May 12, 2010 2:14 pm

ill say bent strut.

Subiegirl · Post by **Subiegirl** » Wed May 12, 2010 2:25 pm

steptoe wrote:smash repairers have a good eye for these sort of things - to see if body is bent. Have you owned long enough before for earlier tyres to give good wear THEN found this happening. 155/80 tyres must feel like poop. roundabouts increase lhf wear.

hmm, interesting... well i've only had the car for about 8 months, so the problem was obviously there before i got it...damn, bent body does not sound good at all.

i understand that the way our roads are designed that more wear is likely on the left front, but this doesn't account for 2 tyres to be bald only on the outer rim of the tyre, compared to the same right front tyre with plenty of life left and barely any visible signs of outer rim wear.

something is def wrong, the struts as im told aren't bent, but i will go and get a second opinion from a suby specialist

and then go from there.

2coupedup · Post by **2coupedup** » Wed May 12, 2010 6:31 pm

either bent strut, bent engine cross member or bend control arm

also could be engine cross member not sittig central (if the crossmember has been unbolted to fit a lift kit or remove a lift kit i might not have been tightened when sitting in a neutral position) they dont have much room to move but could explain it... old subies are known to wear tyres on the outer edge but yes it should be quite even on each side.

also does it have the adjustable front shocks??? having these wound up can increase positive camber quite a bit...

also if one strut/shock/spring is worn out and therefore softer than the other it could cause the body to sit uneven...

just some of my thoughts...

you can get "weld in" camber kits, but this shouldnt be done untill you get them sitting equal, even in it means both tyres are wearing on the outer edge a little bit - but the same on both sides... then put the camber kit in and you should obtain a small amount of negative camber evenly on both sides...

cheers

wrxer · Post by **wrxer** » Wed May 12, 2010 11:47 pm

if you can see its wheel is crooked when you look at it from the front its pretty obvious something is wrong. just will take a caring eye to find whats wrong. good luck

Venom · Post by **Venom** » Thu May 13, 2010 9:27 am

It would be good to know the specifications of your wheel alignment. Its a bit late now but it is always a good idea to ask for a print out of the alignment. This also gives you a before and after to see if they've actually done anything.

I would ask if they can put it back on the machine for free just to get the readings - no adjustment. This only takes 10 mins, and maybe drop the hint you want this sorted before buying new wheels and tyres with them. Make sure you get them to do caster readings to. With this information you can see how all of the wheels are sitting relative to the car, and it might give some hints to whats wrong.

If just camber is a problem then more likely a strut, if camber and caster are a problem then it could be a bent control arm.

If they can't give you a print out then go somewhere else.

Cheers,
Rhys

velocityboy · Post by **velocityboy** » Thu May 13, 2010 11:44 am

I have had 3 brumbys now and everyone of them has had a slight amount of positive camber on the front left. I don't know if it is because of damage because there is no obviuos signs. I intend to look at it in more detail when I get time I will let you what I find.

Post by **TOONGA** » Thu May 13, 2010 12:04 pm

my brumby does the same thing, in fact every MY subaru Ive ever owned chewed out left front tyres more than the right, it is really annoying and it is the way positive camber on the front left is set up. Ive tried everything I know of (short of modifying the mounting point on the body) to solve the problem.
my way of solving the problem will be to modify my lift kit so that I can adjust the camber from the top of the lift kit it won't get rid of the camber problem but it will reduce the gouging of the left tyre

finally I think it has something to do with a yarn I was once told that when a wheel alignment is done the car is actually set up to steer to the left slightly, in case the drive fall asleep at the wheel. this causes the car to drift off the road not into oncoming traffic

TOONGA

2coupedup · Post by **2coupedup** » Thu May 13, 2010 6:43 pm

happy to say guys, 4 subies been in my family, never had that much trouble with uneven wear, fair enough both fronts wore on the outer edge but evenly and not that quick...

cheers

spike · Post by **spike** » Thu May 13, 2010 7:21 pm

TOONGA wrote: finally I think it has something to do with a yarn I was once told that when a wheel alignment is done the car is actually set up to steer to the left slightly, in case the drive fall asleep at the wheel. this causes the car to drift off the road not into oncoming traffic

ive heard that one too toonga but im not too sure honestly.....

weve owned a few subarus in our time and sometimes they have issues somtimes not, the forester we got now is having a few issues with the rear wheel wear, the shockers are retarded cause their self leveling

brumbyrunner · Post by **brumbyrunner** » Thu May 13, 2010 10:33 pm

Subegirl, the wheel alignment on an MY (or L series as they're virtually identical) is so easy you can do it yourself. The camber and caster are not adjustable on a stock vehicle without changing things substantially so that only leaves the toe.

Before you change anything though, can you take some measurements? The vehicle needs to be at ride height with the wheels pointing straight ahead.

With a spirit level held vertically against the outside of the front tyre, (so that it's touching the tyre) measure the gap where it exists between the spirit level and either the top or bottom of the tyre. Repeat on the other side and post what you find. This measurement will be your static camber.

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Fri May 14, 2010 1:01 am

Yes you really need to know what the current camber caster and toe in/out settings are .
By the factory L Series WSM the wheels are supposed to be set to toe in though my alignment people set mine to toe out to reduce tyre wear . The steering is slightly heavier but nothing I can't deal with - power steering .

There are a few ways to increase caster (more positive) and camber more negative but it can involve fabrication of the control arms and spacing up your compression struts (radius rods) .
You get a leg up with an MY based car because you can use L Series front axle shafts to increase control arm and shaft length in the right proportions .
The thing is you need people who are used to fabricating suspension components like control arms to make them stronger than original equipment , because not all craftsmen are created equally the mods are often deemed illegal .

A .

Subiegirl · Post by **Subiegirl** » Fri May 14, 2010 12:17 pm

hi guys

thanks for all the feedback, yeah theres definitely something wrong..

will try the spirit level test and let you know, hopefully this information will help, thats a good idea getting a printout, i will be very annoyed if this could have been avoided by a simple alignment ahh lol
I reckon i'll take it in again and get a printout

I don't think it was ever fitted with a lift kit, but i guess you neva know..is there anything i could look for that would indicate this??

perhaps if i post some pictures, would that help?

cheers
subiegirl

2coupedup · Post by **2coupedup** » Fri May 14, 2010 5:27 pm

even if they dont help, pictures are still good anyway lol, we all love to see the subies that are around...

cheers

Little Mule · Post by **Little Mule** » Fri May 14, 2010 6:22 pm

Has the front ride height nuts been wound up to the max?
I had tyre wear problems like you and that turned out to be
source. Wind the nuts down to standard and then get the camber
checked.

Chris...

Subiegirl · Post by **Subiegirl** » Fri May 21, 2010 12:24 pm

Ok so update, i have taken the beast to where hank schoemaker used to do suspension, and have now been told that the bushes on the left front need replacing, apparently they 'look' fine but when accelerating and slowing down, they are being compressed as the rubber has grown soft over time causing the wheel to constantly move out of alignment as i'm driving, which explains the hard knocking sound i was getting travelling on the highway.

Atm the guy is having trouble sourcing some nolathane replacement bushes, i have a pair of nolathane swaybar bushes a friend gave me for free, which i may get them to replace while they're at it. He also said they will change the toe in to slightly toe out which will increase tire life but make the steering a little heavier, but hopefully in the next few months i will be getting power steering , after new tires of course lol

Apparently a few of the other suspension bushes and something to do with steering column are on their way out and will soon need to be replaced as well

all in due time though.

phew...so still waiting to hear back on whether he gets the parts and then i guess i'll have to see what happens from there, fingers crossed the problem will be fixed

cheers for all the advice

coxy · Post by **coxy** » Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:10 am

Mackay consolidated industries is an Australian company who make radiator and heater hoses,Engine and gearbox mounts and Suspension bushes for vehicles going back over 50 years,they have downloadable PDF catalogs so you can find whatever you want and supply the part numbers to your local mechanic or order from your local auto parts or repco store.
these guys can help supply just about anything and could also possibly supply in small quantities custom hardness rubbers if we organised a group buy deal.
Worth a look at.
Search for mckay consolidated industries to download the catalog you need.