EA81 with SPFI manifold to carbie advice

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:24 pm

Hi all.

ok, with my ea81, I've gone from 32/36 weber to supercharged to SPFI and now am considering going back to a basic carbie for a number of reasons. Spare me the explainations...lol

Now if I keep the larger SPFI manifold it will have better flow. So can I use a larger twin barrell carbie? or use a 32/36 Weber with larger jets?

I've been told by the bush telegraph that a few of you have considered a falcon carbie. Can you please enlighten me. I cant find threads on it.

Tony

Post by **TOONGA** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:07 pm

Tony I'm using an 34ADM on an EJ22 in my brumby.

showthread.php?t=15851

look through the shortcuts in the first post

I would think it would be overkill on an EA81 unless you could get the jetting correct.

You would be better to stick with a 32/36 and use the SPFI manifold.

TOONGA

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:15 pm

Thanks Toonga.

thought as much- use the SPFI manifold. Would need to make up my own adapter and angle it so the carbie base is mounted horizontal I suppose. looks better lol.

it did occur to me to modify the SPFI manifold so it adpots a single carbie say weber dcoe each throat for per bank of the engine??

will look at those links now.

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:54 am

Can you name these number of reasons?

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:04 am

Gannon !!

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:26 am

ok Gannon, I'll bore the readers lol.

I chose the ea81 for simplicity , easy of maintenance so I can service it in a remote location and its reputation. I chose it to replace the vW engine that had caused me such grief from being a brand new engine. The saga started 6 years ago and haunts me today.

I will briefly mention that I retired in September last year due to mental health issues. My tolerance is low and stress high. We recently purchased a camper trailer (a Detour motorcycle camper and highly recommended) and we are eager to tour around and rest.

I originally had a weber 32/36 on this engine and it ran well but we then purchased a Guppy caravan. (460 kgms tare 600 loaded) We bought it as it had all, fridge, cooker etc.. I had hoped I could beef up the towbar and get my engineer to approve the trike to tow the van ie raise the towing capacity from 300gvm to 600. But before I took it to my engineer I found the engine was not powerful enough to tow it without spending half its time in 2nd gear (is a 3 speed auto). Remember, the auto zaps a critical 14 hp off the hp. Hence the supercharger.

For a bloke that normally does a lot of research on things I stuffed up on the SC. I didnt realise that my range would fall from 400kms to 200kms and that was without towing!. (45L)not good. Also the trouble trying to jet it. Some rev points were simply throwing fuel through it. Plumes of black smoke- straight fuel.

The SPFI seemed the way to kill all birds with the one stone. power, reliability and what is really a simple system compared to other alternatives. Again like the SC, a steep learning curve needed. I had great support from other guys here. I sorted the install and that was quite a feat. So what's the problem? Well I've changed the MAF and TPS for good ones. Those two units, to identify them as faulty took 2 months alone to find. Thats ok but the TPS also needs to be adjusted. On the weekend I rode 100 kms then return. The feeling is that I have only half throttle. Slow uphills and on the flat 100 kph top speed. I've also got a bad flat spot.

I'm sure there is nothing wrong with the SPFI unit. The injector has been tested, there are no ECU signal faults etc etc. Timing done correctly eg connect plugs time then disconnect. plugs leads etc top nick.

So I get to a point whereby I get totally disheartened. Then I dream of a simple carbie and going camping and the torment stopping. Hence the thread.

Today I'm going out to the shed and I'm going to get the multimeter onto the TPS. The full throttle reading is set at 4000 ohms, a setting a friend from Canada (NARU from USMB has been a great support) told me, but will set it at 5000 ohms, the factory setting to see if there is a difference.

Sigh...deep breaths....sigh

yeh I can hear the echoes- should have gone EJ. Well the Panther trike is a all alloy frames monocoque chassis that would likely crack with the extra weight.

Why did I not wish to mention all this? Well serious mental health issues are often widely misunderstood by the greater community. To not mention that aspect is to not be truthful.

Post by **TOONGA** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:01 am

Tony I would still be tempted to try supercharging the SPFI setup minus the water injection, just to see what happens.

I have had more problems with my computerised EJ22 ( wrong? computer, octane issues sensors failing) than I have done with the carby EJ22 in the brumby. The only big difference I have seen is fuel consumption with the vortex (injected) being way better on fuel.

I would suggest a setup as close to what you originally started with as that seemed to work the best.

Good luck with it all.

TOONGA

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:41 pm

I replaced the TPD today. Have 3 good ones of them. I tohught the one in the engine was faulty as it read 1500 ohms when it should read 3700-4500 or so. Then after replacing it found that it reads wrong if you leave the electric conenctor connected. damn!! 2 hours wasted. (one hour looking for one of those small blots that dropped...you know the feeling.

I did pick up a bit more power and no flat spot detected. But still doesnt like going beyond 100 kph.

Fiddled with the timing. wasted my time there. put it back to 20 deg.

Tomorrow will check the tappets, clean the dizzy cap, replace the lithium? plugs with standard ones. I think brumby standard gap is 34 thou, spfi is 44. but I dont have the higher compression yet- still at 8.7 so might gap them at 38.

When travelling then off throttle as it slows down the engine feels like it wants to cut out. bit odd.

update tomorrow night

Post by **TOONGA** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:47 pm

Tweety wrote:I replaced the TPD today. Have 3 good ones of them. I tohught the one in the engine was faulty as it read 1500 ohms when it should read 3700-4500 or so. Then after replacing it found that it reads wrong if you leave the electric conenctor connected. damn!! 2 hours wasted. (one hour looking for one of those small blots that dropped...you know the feeling.

I did pick up a bit more power and no flat spot detected. But still doesnt like going beyond 100 kph.

Fiddled with the timing. wasted my time there. put it back to 20 deg.

Tomorrow will check the tappets, clean the dizzy cap, replace the lithium? plugs with standard ones. I think brumby standard gap is 34 thou, spfi is 44. but I dont have the higher compression yet- still at 8.7 so might gap them at 38.

When travelling then off throttle as it slows down the engine feels like it wants to cut out. bit odd.

update tomorrow night

You may have just solved your problem of speed and performance with out even knowing it. I was thinking about your O2 sensor and how it is plumbed into the exhaust, it should be getting hot enough but it may not be getting a proper ground from the exhaust. As well your temp sender may be faulty.

Your engine may just be staying in the open loop cycle as the readings from both these sensors may not be accurate enough.

How old is the O2 sensor?
how old is the temp sender?

some USMB reading again

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/top ... or-ground/

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/top ... s-on-spfi/

TOONGA

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:31 pm

thanks again.

The O2 sensor is a cheapy, new at time of conversion single wire. after reading the links will definately buy a 2 wire. The temp sensor was tested at the time of first start up and passed the test (cant recall how I did it but will refresh my memory in the manual).

Busy on it again tomorrow.

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:59 pm

ordered a new 2 wire O2 sensor. Have got a spare temp sensor from Steptoe a few months back. so all good.

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:41 pm

Tested Steptoes temp sensor. all within spec. tested by leaving in the freezer took reading, luke warm water, took reading then hot water. readings spot on. Will swap this one tomorrow no matter what the other is like. then test that one for interest sake.

As far as other stuff is concerned the MAF was changed after install as that was not within readings. The only other thing is fuel pressure regulator. Got a spare one of that too. mmm

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:40 am

I had a starting problem recently. I was at a mechanics. We found a condenser running from the coil +ve to ground was shorting out. He told me it would be on there for radio noise only and hence cut it off and discarded it.

Read the wiring circuit tonight and it is on the diagram. Would this missing condenser cause the issues I'm having?

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:41 am

No, he is correct, the condenser is to suppress radio noise

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:12 am

show us a pic of that condensor? Have seen people refer to condensor, as suppressor, maybe vice versa, maybe the radio suppressor is a condensor, but not same as ketterings points condensor. What happened to Greg - he didn't give up did he ? Or is he blaming it on a clapped out EA81 and reckons you need a fully sick rebuild ??
Tell them you sold your supercharger?

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:44 am

Silly me threw the condensor away. Cant even tell you what it looked like. But ti wasnt your normal run of the mill cylindrical type. And searched all over the net and cant find a pic of it.

Furthermore in contradiction to Gannons comment all threads on the USMB and other places that mention it refer to the fact that the end wire from the condensor must be properly grounded. It has something to do with the ECU and how it operates- it has an effect on the eCU's performance.

I'll try and find them

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:54 am

ok. found the wire that was cut off. Saves to not empty your bins often.

here it is

now, you will see where there is a piece of wire shrink tube on the wire. Thats where it arced on the chassis, shorted and why it was discarded. I recall now that there was only that two wire connector (black RHS of pic) on this section and no attachment to it. The long black/white wire went to +ve on the coil and the black wire went to ground. So there must have originally been a two plug (male) condensor that plugged into this connector that has never been there.

Of course the mechanic told me to cut it off. Because it wasnt doing anything as there was no unit plugged in.

So I will contact my man in Canada and ask him kindly to seek out an original condensor. I still think it has something to do with the ECU but cant find the sites I read that yesterday. cheers.

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:39 pm

If the condenser is wired across the coil, ie. in parallel with it means the ecu would not detect its presence because the coil is triggered by an external transistor or ignitor.

If the condenser isnt there for RFI suppression, what does it do?

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:59 pm

Yeh I hear you Gannon and you are more likely right than wrong. I am on the chase to find if there is indeed a problem with this SPFI system. If this condenser is a critical item then the conversion guys would have made it an important topic in their notes. I think you are right because them days cars had radios as standard equipment.

So today I checked the tappets and set them to 10 and 12 thou intake and exhaust respectively. rechecked the timing green cons connected then disconnected for driving. dizzy cap etc. replaced iridium plugs with standard NGK. Replaced the temp sender that I tested last night my spare one that I know works well. Replaced the TPS.

The engine runs a bit better. but still 100kph is the limit unless its downhill lol. for a 640 kgm machine it isnt good

Post by **TOONGA** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:09 pm

Are we sure it is a condenser?

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/top ... -question/

Could it be that the coil is missing the Power Transistor Igniter ? post number 7
there are even pictures on that USMB page in the first post.

and page 28 of 40 in the "EA carburetor to injection.pdf" in the old models section of the http://jdmfsm.info/Auto/Japan/Subaru FSM site.

TOONGA